Let's Be Honest Here.....

[ellebud]

I have read, and in my retro story mentioned, that my house wasn't (in my case) a top tier house. In fact, because we were the "Jewish" house we were the bottom house because most of the rushees who weren't Jewish wouldn't, at that time, consider a Jewish house. So, out of 800 pnms...probably 750 considered an invitation to our house the kiss of death (or boredom/rejection) from the "good houses."

When I read posts from girls who drop out of rush because the remaining houses aren't "top tier" I keep wanting to scream, "Who are the women in the houses that aren't "good enough" for you? Will these women be there for you in good times and bad? Are you looking beyond the superficial? Do you honestly think that your social life will be better/doomed/nonexistant if you join House F rather than House A+?

I am wondering if some of us who joined a non top tier house would be willing to come foward and relate their experience with their sisters and why keeping options is a good thing?

[KSUViolet06]

I don't think Jewish automatically = bottom tier at every school.

My school is pretty small, so there isn't alot of tier focus (we were all pretty well about the same size in numbers too).

My thoughts (based on what I've seen on GC):

We are generally dealing with 18 year olds who are pretty affected by what they see during recruitment (skits, looks/sizes of girls), and things like conversations may be secondary to them.

Add to that the fact that they're most likely inundated with "tent talk" and "frat talk" about who is the best and who is not. They take it as complete gospel, because they don't know NOT to. So they honestly think that yes, by joining XYZ is the "social kiss of death."

I chalk it up to the immaturity of PNMs. They're most likely coming from HS, where there's alot of emphasis on "the best" and "most this" or "most that." So that transltes to freshman year and recruitment.

[irishpipes]

With all due respect, I don't think that the discrimination a Jewish chapter faces from PNMs is quite the same as the discrimination a bottom-tier chapter faces. The end result (as in numbers) may be the same, but I think the reasons would be different. In the case of the bottom-tier group I think it really is what you described - a lack of humility that the PNM could lower herself to be associated with that group. I went through rush a million years ago and we had several Jewish chapters. I never thought of them as bottom-tier, but I didn't feel comfortable because the Jewish culture was an important part of those chapters.

[ellebud]

When I went through rush trust me my sorority was the bottom tier simply because while Christian girls could join our house (and one did) many fraternities spred the rep that Jewish girls weren't pretty. (Since one of my sister married a very famous person and was simply gorgeous that didn't enter into their equation). And absolutely, tent talk is very powerful. But I was wondering if...some of us with the perspective of shall I say more years under our belts...give some reassurance that choosing a non tier one house might be the best thing that can happen to you? (as opposed to not having a home or being the odd woman out in a house where you aren't truly accepted?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

With all due respect, I don't think that the discrimination a Jewish chapter faces from PNMs is quite the same as the discrimination a bottom-tier chapter faces. The end result (as in numbers) may be the same, but I think the reasons would be different. In the case of the bottom-tier group I think it really is what you described - a lack of humility that the PNM could lower herself to be associated with that group. I went through rush a million years ago and we had several Jewish chapters. I never thought of them as bottom-tier, but I didn't feel comfortable because the Jewish culture was an important part of those chapters.

Exactly. Plus, at some schools, there are tiers within the several chapters that are primarily Jewish.

Now, if the chapter really ISN'T that Jewish anymore (i.e. if only half the women in it are Jewish) and that isn't being conveyed, that's a different matter.

As for the question, I had it answered when I was still in college, when girls who'd been torn between the "top" house and ours were saying they made a mistake and wished they'd pledged us instead. But then again I went to a smaller school w/ a smaller Greek system.

There was a thread a couple years back from a very honest poster at a very big Greek school where she said that yes, if you join one of the "bottom tier" houses, you DO suffer as far as your social life is concerned. At some (but definitely not all) schools it's like that and I certainly wouldn't tell a girl "hey, the sisterhood as an adult is worth it" if you're sitting at home w/ your sisters while everyone else is out at mixers and homecoming pairings. It's NOT worth it if you're going to be miserable for 4 years.

[peaceloveclass]

Hey everyone! I've been lurking around here for awhile and finally decided to get my own screen name.

I'm a Junior at a VERY tiny school (1200 students!) in the South. We have four sororities, and there's a pretty significant rivalry between some of the groups. Two groups, in particular, are known to fight for PNM's.

On my overnight visit as a Senior, I stayed with and fell in love with the girls in the most popular sorority on campus. When Rush week came around, I was absolutely sure that I would end up there. However, I fell in love with my grandmother's sorority, which was one of the less popular two. On Pref Night, I had a fairly unique dilemma-- I had to choose between the "It" girls and the not so popular girls.

I hate to admit this now, but in my defense, I was 18 and very naive-- I made my decision based on what was "cool" and preffed the popular chapter.

On Bid Day, I was devastated to see that they had not given me a bid, but that my legacy chapter had. I think for me, it was harder to accept the fact that I had been rejected by anyone at all than to accept that I wouldn't be joining that particular sorority.

Since then, I've experienced life in one of the "bottom tier" chapters, while seeing "what could have been" in my face every single day. And you know, I wouldn't change it for the world.

While the other chapter typically has girls begging to get in, and they have the best mixers and parties, I'm so at home in my group that I can't imagine anything else.

Sure, it sucks to hear that your sorority is "lesser" or "uncool," but I know the truth-- I was just fortunate enough to stumble upon a hidden gem.

I know it's a little different, since I do go to such a small school (although we are 60% Greek!) but it's the same concept. I've discovered that all of my sisters are here because they WANT to be, rather than having the few girls who are just there for the sake of being able to say "Oh, well I am a XYZ at ABC University."

Sorry for the long and rambling first post!! I just have too much to say about everything.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I don't think Jewish automatically = bottom tier at every school.

Certainly not at Maryland. (Meaning the Jewish chapters are not bottom tier.)

Originally Posted by peaceloveclass

I've discovered that all of my sisters are here because they WANT to be, rather than having the few girls who are just there for the sake of being able to say "Oh, well I am a XYZ at ABC University."

This is one of the things I like about my chapter. We're not perceived as a "bad" chapter to be in, but we're not a "name" chapter that PNMs would "brag" for name recognition and join for that reason alone.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Plus, at some schools, there are tiers within the several chapters that are primarily Jewish.

Absolutely

[violetpretty]

I'll quote irishpipes in her recruitment story (one of my favorites) because I think she says it well...

Originally Posted by irishpipes

The rest of the rounds I have been pretty sure who I wanted to select and didn’t waste time mulling over it. This time though, I am truly torn. I know absolutely for sure where I want to go, but I think that the other chapters may be more popular – at least one of them for sure. I wouldn’t mind being the envy of my rush group and girls like Pam and Joelle. The thing that clinches it for me is a fleeting thought back to my high school. My high school was filled with very wealthy people. My own family had once done pretty well, but after my parents divorced things became more difficult. We weren't poor, but I was aware that things weren't as easy for us. I know in HS I intentionally worked at Marshall Fields because between the money I earned and the employee discount, I could “keep up” with the girls in school. Did I want that underlying feeling that I didn’t really fit in for 4 more years? I think too, I wanted to take control over the situation and rather than give them the opportunity to disappoint me, I would just cut them first. So, after thinking long and hard, I decide to just put one name down…





Kilkenny

[ellebud]

I am totally aware that my sorority is considered a popular house at some universities and at others..not so much. In fact while I rushed at one school I had to transfer in my junior year to another university where I affiliated with my sorority. At my second school it was one of the top houses. At the second school there was another Jewish house which wasn't doing very well at all. (As an aside a former next door neighbor was a member of the second tier Jewish house at my second school: She wasn't my cup of tea..nor was I hers). My feelings here are in no way about a Jewish house being at the bottom just because it is Jewish. It is about a girl refusing to pledge F house because, despite the fact that there are nice women there...and she feels comfortable...and she likes them...the girl refuses to pledge because it is house F and the name cache is not there. PeaceLoveClass is a perfect example of how fate can step in and help you out.

[irishpipes]

I guess I misinterpreted your initial post as implying that by virtue of being Jewish it was bottom-tier. Thanks for the clarification.

[sarahsmilehawk]

When I went through recruitment, I was invited back to a certain lower-tier house for several rounds. Honestly, I was not impressed with their songs, video, or skit and the girls I was paired with were hard to talk to. I tried really hard to give this chapter a chance, but I just couldn't see myself there. The girls acted as if they were bottom tier, and it showed.

Come to find out, that chapter just doesn't like dealing with formal recruitment and prefers to do COR. They're also an awesome group of girls who are very active in campus activities. But none of their great qualities were apparent during recruitment.

You might want to make sure your chapter isn't in a similar situation. The Jewish factor will probably make it hard to get your numbers up, but it's important to improve your chapter in as many ways as possible and polish your recruitment skills.

That said, the chapter I ended up joining was not top tier, but it was home. The girls were very NORMAL, and this appeals to PNMs. They are the only pref ceremony I attended. It hurt to be cut by so many chapters, but I kept my options open because a) I felt a connection with some of the girls in that house and b) I really, really wanted to be a in a sorority.

Thing is, most sororities are very similar to one another. There are probably five or six houses on my campus (out of 13) in which I would be just as happy as I am now.

But think of how many girls pledge XYZ and eventually drop. They're not feeling the whole sorority thing, or maybe not feeling that particular sorority. Girls who drop out of formal are generally the same types of girls, so maybe it's best that they do.

[texas*princess]

I don't feel the least bit sorry for those girls who chose to drop out b/c the "top tier" or "best" sororities dropped them....and then cry that they went "bidless" They are the ones missing out on what could have been a great sorority experience. And to be honest, if someone thought they were too good for my chapter, I wouldn't want them there anyway.

What pnm's forget is that the ones they wanted for whatever reason didn't want them back and chose to cut them... but there are other groups that genuinely are interested in them that the pnm is saying they are too good for... hmmm.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I can't even keep count of how many sorority women here ended up at their second or third or maybe even last choices, that later went on to discover that house they ended up in truly was their place and went on to have wonderful college & sorority experiences and wouldn't trade that house for the world.

[Benzgirl]

All I can comment on was my own experience. Out of 18 chapters (25 years ago), we had 3 traditionally Jewish houses. None of them were considered bottom-tier. You are correct that many girls cut them based strictly on rumors (one girl I knew cut them because someone told her she would need to convert).

What has since happened is that all chapters now take large numbers of jewish girls. AEPhi is still there, but the two others have since closed. This is very sad because both had been there since the 1920s and one was a single-letter chapter. AEPhi does still fill a niche though and to this day, are not considered the bottom chapter.

I do need to comment that my school is very liberal, in the midwest and not considered competitive. In certain areas of the country or more conservative campuses, you will find what you described. Also, some 18-year olds as others have commented are very impressionable.

[ajmom3]

I think the Aephi at my daughter's school is considered "less desirable" simply because they are relatively new (3 years old at the school) and they don't have a house (at a school where 6 of the 10 sororities have gorgeous houses). They were (as I read here on GC), the only sorority this year to not make quota but they did take in 22 new beautiful girls. They are a traditionally Jewish sorority, which would definitely put off at least 75% of the girls rushing.