new member programs preparing you for life as an active

[cuteASAbug]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

see that's why with Fraternities you don't get that measure of acceptance until AFTER the pledge period....which is why our retention rates seem to be higher!

Pledging in NIC Fraternities is a challenge where the reward comes with membership.

It seems like the New Member programs of most sororities includes showering the girls with gifts and attention.....at my campus they don't even have house duties. Once they get initiated they get stuck with house duties, increased dues, rent, fines for not attending events, etc etc.

To me it seems like the slope is a bit backward.....

I mean all too often I hear sorority women saying "blah blah blah I wish I could pledge Sigma Nu blah blah blah I wish I was in a fraternity!" Why on Earth am I hearing this from multiple sorority women in various chapter?!

I'm also hearing girls telling me they want to go through hazing and hell weeks and stuff. Totally nuts!

To most fraternities the pledge is a probationary non-member who has to earn his letters via dedication to the chapter (project management, house duties, etc etc) and I think the work expected of pledges prepares them for the work expected of actives when they cross. Personally my Fraternal work-load increased as I went active and took on Exec jobs buuuuuut I was more prepared by having a serious pledge semester where my big bro didn't get me pillows and stuffed animals while not making me have house duties such as moping our first floor or cleaning up the TV room. (and yes every Sigma Nu is expected to complete house duties....not just the pledges)

This quote in another thread got me thinking- with all of the movement to eliminate hazing in any form and to make sure that new members are never uncomfortable and are never made to do anything that's not voluntary- how well do you think your organization's new member program prepares its new members for what to expect as an active? One thing that bugs me about hazing rules is that with the exception of Phoenix and Sanctuary degrees, you pretty much can't make anything mandatory for new members without it being called hazing. However, after you're initiated, just about anything and everything is mandatory, so I don't think that does a good job of teaching new members what to expect. I would be concerned with girls pledging, getting initiated, and then becoming disgruntled or leaving the sorority once they found out that now they had to go to everything whether they liked it or not, and that they'd be fined if they didn't show up. Any thoughts?

[AlphaFrog]

There is a chapter in Advantage on time mangagement. If this is a concern, I think more could be done as far as planning time for the sorority and school...as opposed to just general time management.


I remember when I pledged, we had several mandatory things, but since our pledge class was on the small side, if too many people had conflicts, they would move it.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by cuteASAbug

This quote in another thread got me thinking- with all of the movement to eliminate hazing in any form and to make sure that new members are never uncomfortable and are never made to do anything that's not voluntary- how well do you think your organization's new member program prepares its new members for what to expect as an active? One thing that bugs me about hazing rules is that with the exception of Phoenix and Sanctuary degrees, you pretty much can't make anything mandatory for new members without it being called hazing. However, after you're initiated, just about anything and everything is mandatory, so I don't think that does a good job of teaching new members what to expect. I would be concerned with girls pledging, getting initiated, and then becoming disgruntled or leaving the sorority once they found out that now they had to go to everything whether they liked it or not, and that they'd be fined if they didn't show up. Any thoughts?

it's almost like you were listening to a phone call i had last week with a soror of mine...

one of my neos was telling me how she felt like all her time was taken by greek life and that a lot of things that happened in greek life were short notice and how she needed time to plan. i'm like first of all, ALL of our meetings are planned way in advance, so no excuse there, and as for the social, well your social life doesnt have to centered on being greek, you can skip parties and step shows, but its always fun to go when lots of ppl from your chapter and org are going.

besides, did you really think we were joking when we said "lifetime commitment?

and on another note, given short notice for something that's happening within the chapter and feeling pressured to do it does not equal hazing - because it happens in other walks of life (work, school, family) and you dont always get a calendar for the semester or the year. sometimes things are very touch-and-go and either you're down or not.

really its a judgement call - don't bite off more than you can't chew, cause i'd rather have someone who can 100% commit than someone who SAYS they can and then pulls out lst-minute. dont be THAT member who can never "make it" to something because youre "busy."

[/soapbox]

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by tld221

it's almost like you were listening to a phone call i had last week with a soror of mine...

one of my neos was telling me how she felt like all her time was taken by greek life and that a lot of things that happened in greek life were short notice and how she needed time to plan. i'm like first of all, ALL of our meetings are planned way in advance, so no excuse there, and as for the social, well your social life doesnt have to centered on being greek, you can skip parties and step shows, but its always fun to go when lots of ppl from your chapter and org are going.

besides, did you really think we were joking when we said "lifetime commitment?

Speaking from the perspective of a neo, I will say that my prophytes STRESSED the fact that our chapter (and the org, of course) is about business prior to initation. Never have I heard "this is a SERIOUS matter" more frequently and said with more emphasis .

However, some things were short notice... the first chapter meeting was a few weeks after initiation, and I (along with several of my ls') had made plans (it was Mothers' Day Weekend).

But with that said, I think that members emphasizing the work aspects of the organization to the new members is very important. That way it doesn't come as a surprise.

And as for the social aspect, a lot of my upcoming activities are greek-related... but that's the fun part!

[12dn94dst]

I agree with tld221 Sugar08. Setting an expectation from the beginning is important. I'm not sure how requiring new members/candidates for membership to be at events that are important to their journey is hazing, especially if there are mandatory events for members. It's filling a requirement, just like having a certain number of credit hours, a certain GPA, receiving a bid/invitation to join and/or having the $$ for fees are requirements to becoming greek.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by tld221

it's almost like you were listening to a phone call i had last week with a soror of mine...

As well as a conversation I've had on more than one occassion, not to mention. Sometimes even when it's stressed, it doesn't quite sink in. I guess they think we're jokin' or something.

[KSUViolet06]

Tri Sigma dropped its traditional new member education program and unveiled its total membership education program (pioneered by Sig Ep's Balanced Man program) in 2005, called Essental Sigma. The program had been in development since 2001, when our Executive Council started to notice the exact issue that cuteASAbug is talking about in this thread.

i'm going to attempt to explain how it works:

Each class in the sorority (from new members to seniors) has a different stage within the program, called a sequence. There's the Declaration (new member), Arc, Triangle, and Circle Sequence. Each sequence has its own goals, events and activities (some fun ones). In order to progress through the sequences, there are different goals that must be met.

For example, the new member sequence is first. One of the 4 goals is to become eligible for initiation. In order to reach that goal, there are activities and expectations that have to be met (i.e. attending new member meetings, planning a program for the chapter w/other NMs, attending NM retreat, passing the NM test). The biggest change: They are also required to make 85% of attendance points just like actives (with the exception of ritual).

The post initiation Sequences (Arc, Triangle, Circle) have their own goals and activites. They explore things like taking chair positions, offices, and preparing for graduation.

For example as a senior, I was in Circle Sequence. My sequence included all the other seniors. One of the goals was to prepare for life after graduation. We had a Career Day where we invited a speaker to come in and critique our resumes and talk about interview attire. Then we went out to a local mall and went shopping for job interview clothes.

One of our FUN events was our Circle Sequence retreat at a local campground. We also took Arc Buddies where we left inspirational notes and candy for an Arc Sequence (soph.) sister every day for a week.

Each sequence of membershp has something new to learn and experience, so it's not "all downhill" from initiation. With every Sequence, you have something new to look forward to/work towards.

It's hard to explain, but the program grows with the members. The new members still have fun (we still do Big/Little, Pearl Pals, etc), but they also have goals and responsibilities within the chapter. There's not alot of "post-initiation" shock, because you're used to having goals and mandatory events.

If implemented properly, I think it does an excellent job of preparing the new member for what life as an active is like. Chapters who have been using it since 2005 (the pilot chapters) have noted that their retention among newly initiated girls has gone up.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Sounds like Tri-Sig has the right idea.

We do have a requirement program to become an initiated member, in a way. It isn't very demanding though...at least not as demanding as being an active member is. I DO think that newly initiated members get burned out because TELLING them about required events isn't the same as them actually DOING them. Their only required events usually end up being fun sisterhood retreats and initiation requirements.

I have said myself I wish I could be in a fraternity before. I love Alpha Gam. But sometimes it does seem like brotherhood is stronger than sisterhood, and I haven't seen many guys in any fraternity on campus drop out like the girls do. I do think the slope is skewed and I do think it affects retention rates.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

Sounds like Tri-Sig has the right idea.

We do have a requirement program to become an initiated member, in a way. It isn't very demanding though...at least not as demanding as being an active member is. I DO think that newly initiated members get burned out because TELLING them about required events isn't the same as them actually DOING them. Their only required events usually end up being fun sisterhood retreats and initiation requirements.

I have said myself I wish I could be in a fraternity before. I love Alpha Gam. But sometimes it does seem like brotherhood is stronger than sisterhood, and I haven't seen many guys in any fraternity on campus drop out like the girls do. I do think the slope is skewed and I do think it affects retention rates.

i agree, but that is the nature of relationships between men anyway vs. women. it does seem like women are more likely to drop membership than men are. for whatever reasons it may be.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by tld221

i agree, but that is the nature of relationships between men anyway vs. women. it does seem like women are more likely to drop membership than men are. for whatever reasons it may be.

I agree with that. I think changing the new member process though might have SOME effect on retention rates.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by tld221

i agree, but that is the nature of relationships between men anyway vs. women. it does seem like women are more likely to drop membership than men are. for whatever reasons it may be.

I'm guess it has to do with how men and women handle conflict. If a guy has a problem with a brother, they duke it out (verbally or physically) and it's over. When a girl has a problem with a sister, they hide it, let it fester, get catty with that sister, try to get other sisters on their side and to turn against the sister they feel wronged them, etc, etc until someone has quit over it.

[AOII Angel]

I totally disagree with this line of thinking. I don't think you have to do chores to "earn" the right to be initiated. Hazing does not make a stronger brotherhood or sisterhood. Women and men are very different and so are the members of the NPC and the IFC. Comparing drop out rates for women and men is like comparing apples to oranges. Men join fraternities for a very different reason than women join sororities. My older sister was in the last "pledge" class at my chapter, and I was in the first "new member" class. She had to wait an entire semester for initiation while I had to wait six weeks. She said the only difference in the equation was time. She went to a lot more meetings than I did, but she felt she was no more "prepared" than I to become an initiated member. Her pledge education included things like memorizing the letters of the greek alphabet (sorry...how important is that really?!) My new member education was pared down to the basics of what sisterhood meant. My sisters and I were smart enough and worthy enough to get "it" within the six week period. Change is hard, but it's not good enough to justify not changing because "Well...I had to do it that way!" or "I had to be hazed to be a real brother (or sister.)" That's a cop out!
By the way, I just saw the Tri Sigma program on the internet. It really is a nice system. That may be what the other NPC groups should model their own member education programs after.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by cuteASAbug

This quote in another thread got me thinking- with all of the movement to eliminate hazing in any form and to make sure that new members are never uncomfortable and are never made to do anything that's not voluntary- how well do you think your organization's new member program prepares its new members for what to expect as an active? One thing that bugs me about hazing rules is that with the exception of Phoenix and Sanctuary degrees, you pretty much can't make anything mandatory for new members without it being called hazing. However, after you're initiated, just about anything and everything is mandatory, so I don't think that does a good job of teaching new members what to expect. I would be concerned with girls pledging, getting initiated, and then becoming disgruntled or leaving the sorority once they found out that now they had to go to everything whether they liked it or not, and that they'd be fined if they didn't show up. Any thoughts?

We had a girl who became a Phi (new member) and at first it was all "oh cool she's a cool girl". She came to I THINK ONE Phi meeting. She came to initiation and during it I was so pissed, as well as some other sisters. We wanted her out because if you're not going to do as little work as come to a meeting once a week, what are you going to bring to the sorority? She brought nothing. Didn't come to regular weekly meetings, no mandatory things, no business meetings, no rituals. I was very bothered that she got in. She used some kind of family problem excuse but funny that she was going clubbing almost every night and vacationing in Cali and a bunch of other stuff.

And that's the thing.... we baby our Phis. We DO shower them with gifts and if they screw up, we can't kick them out. I believe to release them there is this big process to go through and people are too lazy to do it. I don't want to haze. I don't think we should be doing bad things to them, but 80% of the stuff that is considered hazing is ridiculous. You should make them want it, not just give them a cake walk.

[emb021]

Originally Posted by cuteASAbug

This quote in another thread got me thinking- with all of the movement to eliminate hazing in any form and to make sure that new members are never uncomfortable and are never made to do anything that's not voluntary- how well do you think your organization's new member program prepares its new members for what to expect as an active? One thing that bugs me about hazing rules is that with the exception of Phoenix and Sanctuary degrees, you pretty much can't make anything mandatory for new members without it being called hazing. However, after you're initiated, just about anything and everything is mandatory, so I don't think that does a good job of teaching new members what to expect.

I can only speak about my own orgs idea of pledge programs.

To me, pledge programs should be to train the pledges to become members. Everything the pledge does should have a purpose. I usually speak with chapters to take a look at what they expect of their active members, both explicity and inplicity (pay dues, do service work, attend meetings, live our principles, wear insignia, etc.) and from that base their pledge requirements (pay pledge fees, do service work, attend meeting- both pledge and chapter, learn about our history/principles/etc, wear pledge insignia, etc).

I do not approve of hazing, and neither does my organization. We are very clear on this and have stated what we view as hazing (and its not that much different from other GLOs).

However, I do not agree with this attitude I see in many GLO that 'making the pledges do anything is hazing'. That's BS. We're a service fraternity. We expect our Brothers to complete service as one of their requirements to remain active (the specifics are left to each chapter), so requiring our pledges to also complete service as part of completing their pledge program cannot be considered hazing. I prefer to go with the idea that one should never ask a pledge to do something that we wouldn't ask or expect an active to do. We expect actives to do service work, so we can ask the pledge to do the same (but not more then an active). We expect actives to be knowledgable about our history, principles, operations, etc, so we can ask the pledge to learn this and be tested on it. Same for other requirements we expect of pledges.

We've developed a National Pledging Standard that sets down 20 elements that should be followed by all chapters in developing their unique pledge programs. I've always followed that in my training on pledge programs, because following them will lead to a better pledge program.

If any GLO does their job in developing a new member/pledge program that prepares their nm/p for membership, then this should lead to better retention.

[KyleMcGuire1983]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I totally disagree with this line of thinking. I don't think you have to do chores to "earn" the right to be initiated. Hazing does not make a stronger brotherhood or sisterhood. Women and men are very different and so are the members of the NPC and the IFC. Comparing drop out rates for women and men is like comparing apples to oranges. Men join fraternities for a very different reason than women join sororities. My older sister was in the last "pledge" class at my chapter, and I was in the first "new member" class. She had to wait an entire semester for initiation while I had to wait six weeks. She said the only difference in the equation was time. She went to a lot more meetings than I did, but she felt she was no more "prepared" than I to become an initiated member. Her pledge education included things like memorizing the letters of the greek alphabet (sorry...how important is that really?!) My new member education was pared down to the basics of what sisterhood meant. My sisters and I were smart enough and worthy enough to get "it" within the six week period. Change is hard, but it's not good enough to justify not changing because "Well...I had to do it that way!" or "I had to be hazed to be a real brother (or sister.)" That's a cop out!
By the way, I just saw the Tri Sigma program on the internet. It really is a nice system. That may be what the other NPC groups should model their own member education programs after.

1) Well the "chores" we "force" our boys to do are just house duties that EVERYBODY has to do. I'm the Vice President and I'm mopping the kitchen floor while a pledge is cleaning the sink. So I think that's more just having house rules than putting pledges on some kind of lower level.

2) As stated in our LEAD Manual (pledge book) knowing the Greek Alphabet and being familiar with it is out of respect to other organizations. At least that's the Sigma Nu philosophy and I couldn't agree more....I'm embarassed when some guys don't know what a Rho looks like or a Xi! It's basic diplomacy.

3) Men join fraternities for brotherhood do women not join for the same reason? I don't mean to turn all of NPC on me here it just seems that the retention rates are completely out of whack. I know I know, glass houses.....the NIC system is pretty rough as well with hazing and what not...