Bill Cosby or Michael Eric Dyson

[PerroLoco]

Having read Dyson's book ' Is Bill Cosby Right or Has The Black Middle Class Lost Its Mind?", I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this treatist? Professor Dyson has always been an eloquent and loquacious speaker on Black America. I have very strong thoughts on the book and what he says in retort to Cosby. What are yours?


Personally, I am not a fan of Dysons. Mostly because while he can speak truth to power and call people and institutions out with a beautifully worded savagery, he rarely has answers other than to play the blame game or explain why things are sub-par for minorities. Once you have told me that I am sick and have told me the cause, what is the prescription? Too much of his attack on Cosby is New Millenium intellectualism buttressed by a 70's sensibility and outlook on the Black Condition. It leaves me cold because it is not pro-active, nor self-affirming, nor builds on the innate strength of Black People and Black Culture. He revels in Victomhood and explains away negative Black pathologies as some kind martyrdom that we can not overcome with the will of the individual nor the will of the community.

In a perverse way, he is really saying that as victims of white supremacy, our only hope is more largesse from our white patricians. In other words, just another cycle of imbedded white supremacy. He buttresses many of the institutionalized racists arguments of the white man's burden....that we are not responsible for our lack of self control, our ignorance, our criminal activities, our dislike of education, hard work, and intellectual endeavors, 70% fatherless children etc. We can't help it and the only way out of it is by the white government providing money & resources for that which we will not do ourselves.

[darling1]

i havent purchased the book yet but i plan to. i like dyson...generally. i appreciate his eloquence and hisdown to earth quality.

after listening to him on radio when promoting his book i got the sense that he was justifying too much. i want to read his book to have a more balanced opinion.

personally i think cosby was right.

[Little32]

I have not read the book either, and I probably won't.

My response to Dyson is much like yours PerroLoco. I find him to be reactionary, offering no real solutions only describing the problem in a Dysonish way.

[Wolfman]

PerroLoco-

I've not read his treatise either but I've heard him talk about it. I think he's dead wrong. He just doesn't get it. What's more assinine is the notion that Bil Cosby, because of his wealth, has lost contact with the black poor. Garbage!!!! Bill Cosby grew up in the 'hood and has impeccible "progressive" credentials. What he's saying is what our mamas, grandmas, and grandpapas always told us: it makes a difference if you weren't "raised right." You can hear conversations in any barber shop, church,den, or cookout in the black community and hear the same thing, from people of various income levels and social classes. It's the unbalanced thinking of Dyson which is out of touch with the black community. We've got to tell the real(ie,whole) story and not be politically correct for fear of playing into the hands of white racists, for our own good--a point Cosby rightly makes. We are at a crossroads;we have to get back to what's got us this far!


"Que Psi Phi 'til the day I die!"

[PerroLoco]

Bill Cosby Is Right
Kay S. Hymowitz




And trendy prof Michael Eric Dyson is betraying the black poor.

Last year, Bill Cosby rattled the race status quo when he called upon poor blacks to discipline their kids and “hold their end in this deal.” Now, quick as you can say, “Sign the book contract on the dotted line,” Michael Eric Dyson, University of Pennsylvania humanities professor and influential race intellectual, has responded with Is Bill Cosby Right? Or Has the Black Middle Class Lost Its Mind? And oh, how dismaying that response is. Dyson depicts Cosby as the embodiment of the black middle class’s betrayal of its less advantaged brothers and sisters. But it is his own condescending analysis that represents an elite betrayal of the ghetto poor.

According to Dyson, Cosby’s take on the black poor is not simply wrong; nor is it just another example of the old-fashioned, up-by-the-bootstraps exhortation that has echoed in poor churches throughout American history. Rather, it is a recrudescence of an age-old class war between the “Ghettocracy” (poor blacks) and the “Afristocracy”—the black elite that includes “lawyers, physicians, civil rights leaders” (noticeably absent in his list is university professors). The Afristocracy, Dyson explains, has long held its nose at the déclassé antics of the poor, a distaste that turns middle-class blacks into “accomplices to white panic and surveillance.” Cosby’s criticism, Dyson contends, shows him to be yet another of these self-hating race traitors.

What makes this analysis surprising are the airs that Dyson himself puts on throughout Is Bill Cosby Right? Cosby is a mere comedian, he sniffs, not someone “practiced or articulate in matters of public negotiation with the subtleties, nuances and complexities of racial rhetoric.” Professor Dyson, on the other hand, will “offer more sophisticated and subtle analyses of cultural traits and racial behaviors that have their roots in antecedent practices.” “This book,” he assures us, “is my attempt to unpack those issues with the clarity and complexity they demand.”

But Dyson’s grandiose postmodernism doesn’t lend itself to clarity. Consider such lucidities as “the strategies of black identity promote a provisional response to the stages, styles, and status of black identity,” and “the aesthetic ecology in which [black youth] are nurtured surely contains poisonous weeds and quicksand, glimpsed in sexist tirades on wax and the hunger to make violence erotic.” Moreover, though Dyson promises logic in contrast to Cosby’s emotionalism, he rarely refers to the comedian’s crusade without using charged words like “vicious” or “relentless.” Some Cosby supporters defend him by noting his philanthropy for black causes, but, says Dyson, that’s “like saying it’s okay to rape a young lady because you’ve given a million dollars to a women’s college.” The insinuation, if not the logic, is clear: Cosby is a sociopath.

As for the substance of Dyson’s “complex” argument, it’s nothing you haven’t heard hundreds of times before. Packed into this tendentious essay, it certainly isn’t going to convince skeptics. The cause of black poverty is structural. Jobs have fled the inner city. Discrimination keeps poor blacks from getting the few jobs left. Cosby accuses parents of failing to support their children’s education, but, counters Dyson, the real problem is that inner-city schools don’t get enough funds. Crime and family breakdown are not unique to the poor; rich people, including Cosby himself, also make poor moral choices.

But worse—far worse—than Dyson’s self-important boilerplate is the way he digs into his Foucauldian cosmetic bag to prettify behavior sure to perpetuate the poverty he supposedly deplores. Cosby has blasted “people with the hat on backwards, pants down around the crack.” But pants down around the crack are a good thing, counters Dyson, since they represent

“resistance to convention.” Cosby criticizes kids who sound like ignorant “knuckleheads.” Once again, Cosby has it wrong, says Dyson. Ebonics “grows out of the fierce linguisticality of black existence,” and in general, hip-hop “summons the richest response in the younger generation to questions of identity and suffering.” Boiled down, Dyson’s advice for the poor amounts to this: dress like you just got out of Attica, wear your defiance on your sleeve, and don’t bother trying, since the system is stacked against you anyway.

Cosby’s approach is quite different. He doesn’t cite studies or deconstruct. He simply exhorts parents, in the tradition of the uplifting revivalist, to do the things that will focus their kids on school and prepare them for better lives. The reason that thousands of people—many, if not most, poor—have lined up to hear him is that, while his advice may not be complex, it is right.

You can’t say the same about Dyson’s implicit counsel. Still, the professor is right about one thing: this is a class war between the elites and the poor. What he doesn’t get is which side he’s on.

[Lady of Pearl]

I read the review of Dyson's book and heard the criticism regarding Cosby. Somehow, I can't get with either of their statements. Sure the system benefits a few, but where is one's faith in God! Somehow both seemed to overlook this aspect of the equation,- we as a people have gotten where we are by means of our faith,- our ancestors prayed for the day that we would not be slaves! I am benefitting from the prayers of my family along with my faith, education, and initiative. Rather than seeking government handouts and pointing fingers at the under class and their condition we need to emphasize the moral and spiritual aspect of our culture then maybe we as a people will come back to what has sustained us!

[PerroLoco]

Originally posted by Lady of Pearl
I read the review of Dyson's book and heard the criticism regarding Cosby. Somehow, I can't get with either of their statements. Sure the system benefits a few, but where is one's faith in God! Somehow both seemed to overlook this aspect of the equation,- we as a people have gotten where we are by means of our faith,- our ancestors prayed for the day that we would not be slaves! I am benefitting from the prayers of my family along with my faith, education, and initiative. Rather than seeking government handouts and pointing fingers at the under class and their condition we need to emphasize the moral and spiritual aspect of our culture then maybe we as a people will come back to what has sustained us!

Where has Cosby not included faith? It is not the lynch pin of his argument, but it is there.

[06pilot]

I agree. Bill Cosby was saying what are parents have said all along.

[DoggyStyle82]

Open Letter Regarding Harsh Criticism of Dr. Bill Cosby

By Reverend Jesse L. Jackson, Sr.

While I respect the intellectualism and intent of Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, and treasure our friendship, his attacks on Dr. Bill Cosby are too harsh.

Cosby has paid his dues. He has earned the privilege of having and expressing an opinion about the plight of Africans in America. In his groundbreaking sitcom, The Cosby Show, unlike many of today’s unapologetic, commercial purveyors of filth and degradation, Cosby uplifted black college and family life in ways that permanently changed perception and reality. There is a great distance – philosophically and politically – between Bill Cosby on the one hand, and those like Clarence Thomas and many artists who use their power and access to media to hurt the cause of civil rights and social justice.

On a personal note, I recall Bill’s alignment with, not distancing from, the civil rights movement. On one occasion, Bill Cosby did a concert to raise funds for the movement, and many who normally would come to see him would not come. So Bill later did events without announcement of its fundraising purpose, would pack the house, and then support the movement directly. He is the longest and largest single source of support for the Jackie Robinson Foundation, and is well known for his and his wife Camille’s support for Spellman College, Morehouse College, and our historically Black Colleges and Universities.




Early on, Cosby was a major supporter of our organization’s Push for Excellence Program in 1975. Former South African President Nelson Mandela spoke often of how The Cosby Show struck a blow to apartheid caricature of Black South Africans; so careful was Bill (with the assistance of Dr. Alvin Poussaint) to make sure the content and images on the show were positive and uplifting. It is one thing to disagree with his views, but quite another to personally denigrate him to make one’s point. To do so is to diminish his commitment and service.

There is no real debate in the African American community concerning personal responsibility. It is well settled that while institutional inequality and injustice are real, they never excuse doing less than one’s best to overcome the effects. Certainly, African Americans and the poor face structural inequality. Cosby argues that while it may NOT be the fault of Blacks for being in poverty, it IS our burden to challenge and break out of it.

We marvel at our athletes enjoying success DESPITE growing up with inferior resources: rocky baseball diamonds, hoops without nets, dilapidated public tennis courts and public golf courses. But athletes make choices to overcome—not succumb—to such obstacles, to not let anyone hinder them from achieving their goals. It is fair to say when rules are public, goals are clear, and the playing field is even, all people, regardless of ethnicity do exceedingly well. But if one group is far behind for any reason in the race of life, that group must run faster. We, as African Americans have much ground to make up. As a community and a people, we must make good choices.

If the playing field is uneven, those who succeed and benefit most from the struggle of others are not the ones who make it even. It is always the VICTIMS of the uneven playing field who must rise up and make it even – that’s the legacy of our civil rights struggle: Not blaming the victim, but securing social responsibility.

Cosby, like many artists, feels that African Americans cannot tolerate the hieroglyphics of destitution and music that commercially recycles degradation as “truth”—none of which can be reconciled with dignity.

There is an historical and palpable anxiety with the challenges raised by Cosby. However, his is not a new message and is one that should not be distorted or twisted to serve one’s own view. Ministers and teachers convey Cosby’s message to us every day. Cosby’s prominence should not be misused to justify the political right wing’s predisposition of being indifferent to the pain of poverty, and to blame communities for the plight of people who live there. The right wing historically has twisted the words of Jesus and used the Bible as a weapon to justify slavery, segregation and racial superiority; they twist the words of Dr. Martin Luther King to justify their anti-affirmative action rhetoric.

Speaking at the 50th anniversary of the 1954 Brown v. Board Supreme Court decision—after 247 years of slavery—Cosby reflected on the price paid by our lawyers, martyrs and common citizens at great risk, facing violence and lynch mobs on a daily basis. Thinking of the price they paid for our momentous victories, he commented that many of the beneficiaries of these struggles are now nonchalant and dismissive about their sacrifice. Today, many have lost the will to fight back against FEWER odds, with un-sound priorities, engaging in commercialized self-degradation and undermining self-determination. Therefore, such people suffer from a dignity deficit disorder.

Cosby issued a clarion call to demonstrate and show what all of us can do if we have the will and use our power and accept the challenge of taking on today’s rightwing so determined to roll back the gains of the last 50 years. So, we should respect Dr. Cosby’s cumulative record of service and appreciate the context of his pain and challenge. We cannot justiably make Bill Cosby the “poster child” for cultural insensitivity.

Keep our eyes on the prize and keep hope alive!

[ZetaStorm]

I have not read Dyson's book and I really don't plan on reading it. I have a lot of respect for Bill Cosby. If I'm going to take someone's advice it's certainly going to be from someone who I respect. I don't have to agree with everything he says but I do respect the fact that he cared enough to even put himself out there like that. He could have just said hey I have mine and everyone else has theirs to get. He could have kept his mouth shut and stayed in the 'safe' zone.

As an elder he said what was on his mind. Elders are supposed to lead. That's part of the problem. As a people we have forgotten about our Elders. We don't respect them let alone listen to them. They have already been where we're trying to go. Lord knows Cosby has seen more than I have.

I wasn't shocked by his statements because they aren't that much different from what I have been hearing other older blacks saying. The only difference is that Cosby went public with it. Sometimes people need to hear the truth and not what makes them feel good. Like he said you can buy your child $200 sneakers but won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics. Exactly, where are your priorities?

There are a lot of things that my parents did that I thought was over the top. Now that I'm older I thank God that they cared and loved me enough to go buck wild on me when I got out of hand. Otherwise I would have been a straight statistic. Love is not telling a person that they're right when they're wrong. If I love you I'm not going to see you about to walk into a train and sit there and not say anything. I've learned (the hard way) that taking good advice from a wise person can make your life a lot easier and sometimes even save your life.

[PerroLoco]

Originally Posted by ZetaStorm

I have not read Dyson's book and I really don't plan on reading it. I have a lot of respect for Bill Cosby. If I'm going to take someone's advice it's certainly going to be from someone who I respect. I don't have to agree with everything he says but I do respect the fact that he cared enough to even put himself out there like that. He could have just said hey I have mine and everyone else has theirs to get. He could have kept his mouth shut and stayed in the 'safe' zone.

As an elder he said what was on his mind. Elders are supposed to lead. That's part of the problem. As a people we have forgotten about our Elders. We don't respect them let alone listen to them. They have already been where we're trying to go. Lord knows Cosby has seen more than I have.

I wasn't shocked by his statements because they aren't that much different from what I have been hearing other older blacks saying. The only difference is that Cosby went public with it. Sometimes people need to hear the truth and not what makes them feel good. Like he said you can buy your child $200 sneakers but won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics. Exactly, where are your priorities?

There are a lot of things that my parents did that I thought was over the top. Now that I'm older I thank God that they cared and loved me enough to go buck wild on me when I got out of hand. Otherwise I would have been a straight statistic. Love is not telling a person that they're right when they're wrong. If I love you I'm not going to see you about to walk into a train and sit there and not say anything. I've learned (the hard way) that taking good advice from a wise person can make your life a lot easier and sometimes even save your life.

Nice post. Well stated.

[Exquisite5]

I tried to read the book- I found it, much like T.D. Jakes' books, to say the same thing over and over and over and over again for 200 pages.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle- we've all got to be personally responsible, but we alse need to lift up those who are trying to make it.