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  #1  
Old 01-26-2015, 08:44 PM
28StGreek 28StGreek is offline
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"Am I pretty enough rush?"

I originally had typed up something for a response in the thread: THE "bottom" sorority
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=144159

However, I felt that much of what I had to say had already been said by some posters whose opinions I greatly respect, and anything more I thought should be added would not have been received well by some of the other GCers posting in the thread.

Then when the alleged leaked USC sorority email was recently doing the rounds on social media, regardless of its accuracy, I felt it reinforced a certain reality endemic at some campuses. It is a reality that some on this would board either ignore, pretend not to exist, or are just oblivious to. There are some who would give out advice that seeks to quash its existence and in doing so I feel would be detrimental for a PNM's expectations.

And since its that time of the year when PNMs will start receiving their letters of admission from college, it is also ideally time to really begin the preparation for sorority recruitment in earnest. Therefore I have decided to add my thoughts to the conversation.

How a PNM physically looks, and her size, is a real factor in a PNM's chances during rush; at some schools definitely, and perhaps at most schools. And yes, I use rush on purpose because formal recruitment is just another example of the euphemistic culture in some people's approach to giving advice to PNMs.

I am in no way stating that how a person looks is an explicit criteria in an organisation's membership selection. But how physically attractive a young woman is, affects her chances of success in all aspects of life, sorority rush included.

Whether this is a subconscious mental decision or a decidedly conscious one on the part of the actives, this kind of mentality is just a fact of our current society. We could debate all day and night what socio-cultural genesis this problem has, but that is not important.

What is important is that the telling to PNMs at certain schools that they should "keep an open mind", "do not listen to the tent talk", "try to look past the reputation", etc, is disingenuous, even harmful. That kind of advice can breed false hope or unrealistic expectations.

At USC, a freshman PNM is probably not a red flag for a grade risk, on the very virtue of being admitted to SC in the first place. What is going to really affect her rush is: who she is, who she knows, and especially how she looks. And if she does not have any recs, but looks like a Victoria's Secret Angel, then she is probably going to get a full list of invites each round.

And don't forget, this mentality is not exclusive to the chapter's opinions of a PNM's value. The PNM is most likely making her decisions about a chapter's worth based on the very same shallow premises.

Greek life may extend long after college years into alumna status, but its the active years that are the most attractive part of the experience. And at some schools, it would be a lie to say that all sorority experiences were made equal.

Total Sorority Move may not often give the best portrayal of Greek life, but I thought a recent article titled: An Answer To The Age-Old Question: Am I Pretty Enough To Rush? Was well-written especially in its candour.

I personally believe the opportunities open to a women who decides to go Greek more than outweighs the social cost of having a 'less successful' rush. Above all, the women who decide to accept their bids and be committed to their choices will more than likely find sisterhood, a wealth of college memories, and brilliant preparation for their futures. That being said, I will not gloss over the fact that come this fall when the bid cards are handed out, there will be women who will face crushing disappointment. Because, they will overnight become the target of hurtful, mean, and awful comments just based on the fact they wear certain letters. Tiers may eventually change over generations but at certain schools its never going to happen with "one amazing pledge class" that "work their butts off to change their reputation and be the best chapter they can be".

To end on a positive note, for all those PNMs heading off to college this fall I do really believe in this advice, and it is quite wonderful:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishpipes View Post
In the end, your sorority doesn't make you top tier or bottom tier. Be a top tier person. Make people say, "she's an XYZ?"
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  #2  
Old 01-26-2015, 08:53 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I'm really confused as to what you're trying to say. If you're pretty you shouldn't pledge a less popular chapter?

That email was less about physical beauty than it was about rules and regulations. My chapter's fb group (let's just say my alma mater was the polar opposite of USC) thought it was awful, until I explained the size of these chapters and this rush. It's honestly more like wearing uniforms at school to keep the focus on academics. I didn't think anything in it was over the top or rude.
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  #3  
Old 01-26-2015, 09:06 PM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 28StGreek View Post
I originally had typed up something for a response in the thread: THE "bottom" sorority
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=144159

However, I felt that much of what I had to say had already been said by some posters whose opinions I greatly respect, and anything more I thought should be added would not have been received well by some of the other GCers posting in the thread.

Then when the alleged leaked USC sorority email was recently doing the rounds on social media, regardless of its accuracy, I felt it reinforced a certain reality endemic at some campuses. It is a reality that some on this would board either ignore, pretend not to exist, or are just oblivious to. There are some who would give out advice that seeks to quash its existence and in doing so I feel would be detrimental for a PNM's expectations.

And since its that time of the year when PNMs will start receiving their letters of admission from college, it is also ideally time to really begin the preparation for sorority recruitment in earnest. Therefore I have decided to add my thoughts to the conversation.

How a PNM physically looks, and her size, is a real factor in a PNM's chances during rush; at some schools definitely, and perhaps at most schools. And yes, I use rush on purpose because formal recruitment is just another example of the euphemistic culture in some people's approach to giving advice to PNMs.

I am in no way stating that how a person looks is an explicit criteria in an organisation's membership selection. But how physically attractive a young woman is, affects her chances of success in all aspects of life, sorority rush included.

Whether this is a subconscious mental decision or a decidedly conscious one on the part of the actives, this kind of mentality is just a fact of our current society. We could debate all day and night what socio-cultural genesis this problem has, but that is not important.

What is important is that the telling to PNMs at certain schools that they should "keep an open mind", "do not listen to the tent talk", "try to look past the reputation", etc, is disingenuous, even harmful. That kind of advice can breed false hope or unrealistic expectations.

At USC, a freshman PNM is probably not a red flag for a grade risk, on the very virtue of being admitted to SC in the first place. What is going to really affect her rush is: who she is, who she knows, and especially how she looks. And if she does not have any recs, but looks like a Victoria's Secret Angel, then she is probably going to get a full list of invites each round.

And don't forget, this mentality is not exclusive to the chapter's opinions of a PNM's value. The PNM is most likely making her decisions about a chapter's worth based on the very same shallow premises.

Greek life may extend long after college years into alumna status, but its the active years that are the most attractive part of the experience. And at some schools, it would be a lie to say that all sorority experiences were made equal.

Total Sorority Move may not often give the best portrayal of Greek life, but I thought a recent article titled: An Answer To The Age-Old Question: Am I Pretty Enough To Rush? Was well-written especially in its candour.

I personally believe the opportunities open to a women who decides to go Greek more than outweighs the social cost of having a 'less successful' rush. Above all, the women who decide to accept their bids and be committed to their choices will more than likely find sisterhood, a wealth of college memories, and brilliant preparation for their futures. That being said, I will not gloss over the fact that come this fall when the bid cards are handed out, there will be women who will face crushing disappointment. Because, they will overnight become the target of hurtful, mean, and awful comments just based on the fact they wear certain letters. Tiers may eventually change over generations but at certain schools its never going to happen with "one amazing pledge class" that "work their butts off to change their reputation and be the best chapter they can be".

To end on a positive note, for all those PNMs heading off to college this fall I do really believe in this advice, and it is quite wonderful:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishpipes View Post
In the end, your sorority doesn't make you top tier or bottom tier. Be a top tier person. Make people say, "she's an XYZ?"
QFP
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Last edited by ASTalumna06; 01-26-2015 at 09:08 PM.
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  #4  
Old 01-26-2015, 09:40 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I checked the OP's previous posts, and they've gone to a similar well before. I'm still not sure what the ultimate point is....
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  #5  
Old 01-26-2015, 10:01 PM
amIblue? amIblue? is offline
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This is what I got from the OP: Tiers are real, y'all. Be pretty or go home because why would anyone even want to be in a bottom house? Ew.

Not sure why she quoted irishpipes. I don't think that quote means what 28stgreek thinks it means.
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Last edited by amIblue?; 01-26-2015 at 10:05 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-27-2015, 12:48 AM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amIblue? View Post
Not sure why she quoted irishpipes. I don't think that quote means what 28stgreek thinks it means.
This is what confused me the most. 98% of what she said meant one thing, and then the quote she posted to "prove her point" went in a completely different direction.
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  #7  
Old 01-27-2015, 08:55 AM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Tiers are indeed real. They just don't mean that much other than which chapters are most popular during rush and which fraternities they mix with.
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  #8  
Old 01-27-2015, 10:49 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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So maybe it determines who you meet and date and MARRY! ACK!

If I'd been in another sorority maybe I'd have dated different guys....maybe I'd also be divorced 6 times with 10 kids.

Maybe, maybe, maybe. Instead of thinking you can plan your life and plan for all the maybes do what makes you happy now and you'll get where you should be even if you didn't think it was the right place initially.

DISCLAIMER: This is not a caffeinated post.
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  #9  
Old 01-27-2015, 01:58 PM
ChioLu ChioLu is offline
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The last line in that TSM article is the 1 to remember:
... plan on getting a recommendation for EVERY sorority on campus
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  #10  
Old 01-27-2015, 04:54 PM
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AZTheta AZTheta is offline
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I do not understand this post/thread at all. Is Mercury in retrograde again or something of the sort?
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  #11  
Old 01-27-2015, 05:32 PM
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DGTess DGTess is offline
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I'm with you, 28StGreek. ON SOME CAMPUSES.

Not that only a "top tier chapter" will take the "pretty" girls (and I despise even the idea of tiers), but women tend to look at conventionally beautiful women, and the beauty queens and models, if they don't have disgusting manners, will likely get a second look.

I believe, however, that most campuses are much more forgiving. And frankly, as I get older, I realize there really is no such thing as an ugly 18-year-old.
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2015, 05:55 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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That's not necessarily true. At some chapters (of all tiers) who you know and your connections trumps "pretty" or "hot" every time. EVERY time.
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:34 PM
exlurker exlurker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amIblue? View Post
. . . .
Not sure why she quoted irishpipes. I don't think that quote means what 28stgreek thinks it means.
Agree! And by the way, amiblue, excellent allusion to "The Princess Bride."
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  #14  
Old 01-28-2015, 09:56 AM
28StGreek 28StGreek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
I'm really confused as to what you're trying to say. If you're pretty you shouldn't pledge a less popular chapter?
That was not what I was trying to say, apologies for not being clear in my original post. What I was trying to say was that sometimes when PNMs to certain schools ask for advice on how to prepare for rush, some advice is missing.

Yes it is imperative to get recs to all the houses as soon as possible; keep your grades up; pick out your clothes ahead of time; and practice speaking confidently. But I also think PNMs, at particular schools, need to be told to seriously take a look in the mirror. I do think, and agree with the Tsm article writer, that when a PN, asks: “Am I good enough to rush?”, or “What are my chances of going through sorority recruitment at ABC State?”; really equates to “Am I pretty enough to rush?”

NB: I do realise that I made a mistake in the thread title, and forgot to include the word 'to'.

And if a PNM possibly does not fit the stereotypical attractiveness as portrayed by the recent trend of sorority tumblr blogs and professionally-made Bid Day videos, then she needs to prepare herself to accept heavy cuts.

And my advice for if the PNM is pretty: she should choose to pledge at the chapter she feels most at home at.

Quote:
That email was less about physical beauty than it was about rules and regulations.
If that was, the case, then why the emphasis of looking one's best as opposed to 'neat', 'tidy', 'put together' or even 'professional'. On the inclusion of phrases such as:
"[if you wear Spanx] you don't have to worry about sucking in all the time."
"look less beautiful than you actually are"
Or the insistence on exercise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amIblue? View Post
Not sure why she quoted irishpipes. I don't think that quote means what 28stgreek thinks it means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by exlurker View Post
Agree! And by the way, amiblue, excellent allusion to "The Princess Bride."
I am pretty sure I got the meaning of Irishpipes' quote, but I will leave her to correct me if I was mistaken. My interpretation of the quote is that while having XYZ letters on your shirt may bring certain attitudes or remarks as a group in general. On an individual level, your letter do not define you as a person. While you may not be able to change the reputation of your chapter as far as The Row is concerned, you as an individual can change people's expectations of you on a personal level. Essentially, that your personality can shine if you choose to, irrespective of your XYZ letters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 View Post
This is what confused me the most. 98% of what she said meant one thing, and then the quote she posted to "prove her point" went in a completely different direction.
I quoted Irishpipes to add to my point in the first half of the final paragraph:

"I personally believe the opportunities open to a women who decides to go Greek more than outweighs the social cost of having a 'less successful' rush. Above all, the women who decide to accept their bids and be committed to their choices will more than likely find sisterhood, a wealth of college memories, and brilliant preparation for their futures."

Yes I do think your physical looks greatly influence your success with rush as whole, and yes PNMs need to be realistic and honest with themselves of their expectations. BUT, I still encourage every woman interested in sorority life to 'Go Greek', regardless of what her prospects during rush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby View Post
Tiers are indeed real. They just don't mean that much other than which chapters are most popular during rush and which fraternities they mix with.

I agree with this. However at the schools I am most familiar with, rush and mixing with fraternities is a huge part of sorority life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGTess View Post
ON SOME CAMPUSES.

Precisely why I said: "a certain endemic reality at some campuses".

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
That's not necessarily true. At some chapters (of all tiers) who you know and your connections trumps "pretty" or "hot" every time. EVERY time.

This is actually a very fair point but in my experience the well-connected, also tend to be within the socially-accepted definitions of "pretty" or "hot".

I hope this follow-up post has clarified my intentions within my first post.

Last edited by 28StGreek; 01-28-2015 at 09:59 AM. Reason: To improve formatting; change 'enough' to 'to'
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  #15  
Old 01-28-2015, 11:53 AM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 28StGreek View Post
I agree with this. However at the schools I am most familiar with, rush and mixing with fraternities is a huge part of sorority life.
My point is that as long as you are getting mixers, it's not a huge difference being in a top tier or a bottom tier. The overall experience of a mixer is pretty much the same whether you are paired with Alpha Beta Popular or Zeta Gamma Mediocre.

Same thing with rush...if you are a chapter that struggles to make quota, yes, it will affect your experience, but a group of new members running toward your chapter on bid day is awesome no matter how many cheerleaders or science geeks you happen to get.

Of course, these things may SEEM like a huge deal to a teenager, but if you drop the comparisons and focus on your own experience, I promise it isn't that different from one chapter to the next.
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