Princeton sends letter to parents regarding concerns about Greek Life

[ThetaPrincess24]

Daily Princetonian
Princeton University
April 29, 2009
http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/04/29/23574/

Tilghman explains continued concerns about Greek life

By Melanie Jearlds, Staff Writer

As the University prepares to welcome another class of incoming freshmen,
these members of the Class of 2013 will receive a letter from Dean of
Undergraduate Students Kathleen Deignan and Vice President for Campus Life
Janet Dickerson over the summer informing them that the University does not
support fraternities and sororities on campus.

President Tilghman said in an interview last Wednesday that the
administration continues to discourage incoming students from participating
in Greek life on campus because she believes it restricts students’ social
lives.

Several members of Greek organizations on campus said they were opposed to
the University sending out a letter asking students not to join organizations.

“I thought it was unnecessary and really not the school’s place to
interfere in such a manner,” said Caroline Rawls ’12, a member of Kappa
Alpha Theta. “Does the school send out letters asking kids not to join
other organizations? No. So why should they send out a letter discouraging
students to join a sorority or fraternity when they would never do the
exact same thing for any other organization?”

But Tilghman said she thinks fraternities and sororities do not contribute
as much to campus life as other groups, like athletic teams or performance
groups.

“Those groups are forming around an ability, a talent [or] an interest that
is likely to attract students from lots of socioeconomic groups, from lots
of different geographical backgrounds, from lots of racial groups,” she
explained. “When I’ve seen the way that fraternities and sororities go
about attracting their membership, it’s not based on talent. It’s based on
social comfort. And that strikes me as fundamentally different than joining
a football team or joining an a cappella group.”

Tilghman added that she thinks the University’s letter may serve to inform
students that Greek organizations do exist on campus and actually spark
interest in joining a fraternity or sorority.

“I do worry … that it is a potential unintended consequence,” she said. “I
still feel that it is important for the University to inform both the
students and their parents what our policy is in regards to not recognizing
these social groups.”

Tilghman said she was also concerned that participation in fraternities or
sororities leads to early “segregation of students along racial … [and]
socioeconomic lines.”

She said she is worried, in particular, by how rush activities come early
during the academic year, leaving freshmen little time to form outside
friendships prior to joining Greek societies.

“I think I have to go all the way back to Woodrow Wilson ... who said one
of the most important things you do at Princeton is ... encounter the
‘other,’ ” Tilghman said. “When groups form * and more often than not,
these are forming among students who feel very comfortable with each other
* you’re losing your opportunity during your first and second year at
Princeton to encounter the ‘other,’ and that’s my philosophical objection.”

But Kappa Alpha Theta president Emmy Ill ’10 said she thinks sororities
like hers were beneficial to the campus community.

“I feel that sororities do add to University life in numerous ways, and I
hope we will develop a positive relationship with the administration,” she
said in an e-mail, declining to offer any other comments on the subject.

Numerous other members of sororities and fraternities who were contacted
either declined to or did not respond to requests for comment.

Fraternities and sororities have long had strained relations with the
administration. Back in 2004, officials in Nassau Hall approached officers
from the Greek societies about the possibility of delaying rush until
January or February, and the groups refused. The students were unwilling to
consider the request for fear of conflicts with Bicker, Tilghman said.

But Rawls said the timing of rush during the fall semester of her freshman
year did not restrict her social life.

“We have over a month to get information about Greek life and determine
whether or not it is for you,” Rawls said. “Because things like the
activities fair happen before rush anyway, it’s not like people aren’t
already involved in other activities and informed about other social and
service options that they might find interesting.”

Tilghman also criticized the way sororities and fraternities feed directly
into the bicker clubs.

“We know that happens,” she said. “We’ve documented it year in and year
out. Anyone who says that doesn’t happen hasn’t looked at the data.”

Though there are clear comparisons to be made between the Greek
organizations and the eating clubs, Tilghman said she thinks there was an
important distinction between the two because students don’t join clubs
until halfway through sophomore year.

“You don’t really become active in the eating club until your junior and
senior year, so by that time you have had a year-and-a-half to two years to
meet lots of people, join lots of groups, create different ways of having a
social life at Princeton, and I think you are ready to make some decisions
about how you want to spend your last two years,” she explained.

[KSigkid]

I think there was already a thread on this - anyway, this is something they do every year, and because they're Princeton they can do whatever they want. Greek life is great, but Princeton students will get some other pretty great experiences in their time at the school.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I think there was already a thread on this -

Princeton discourages freshman from joining fraternities and sororities

And yeah . . . it's Princeton.

[Munchkin03]

This comes up for discussion every year here, and the same issues are brought up:

• Greek Life is not recognized by the University; there are, however, several chapters that have been successful. The NPHC chapters, as an example, are a group where the lack of University endorsement has not posed a problem in terms of interest and numbers.
  
• Yes, there are eating clubs which serve similar purposes to fraternity and sorority houses. These clubs, however, are older than some national fraternities and their alumni are very active donors.
  
• The Princeton alumni network, and those of many prestigious private schools, is far more tight-knit and useful to its alumni than a Greek alumni network will ever be.
  
• The kids who will be part of Princeton's Class of 2013 are extremely well-resourced, either by their own hard work or socioeconomic privilege. I doubt very little will stop them if they really want to join a Greek organization.
  
• A good number of HS students pick Princeton because the Greek system is not dominant.
  
• President Tighlman is within her rights, as the president of a private university, to do this.This is also part of a larger trend of elite private universities pulling away from Greek Life (see Amherst, Middlebury, Williams, Dartmouth, etc., etc.)

So, why are we still bellyaching about this?

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

This comes up for discussion every year here, and the same issues are brought up:

• Greek Life is not recognized by the University; there are, however, several chapters that have been successful. The NPHC chapters, as an example, are a group where the lack of University endorsement has not posed a problem in terms of interest and numbers.
  
• Yes, there are eating clubs which serve similar purposes to fraternity and sorority houses. These clubs, however, are older than some national fraternities and their alumni are very active donors.
  
• The Princeton alumni network, and those of many prestigious private schools, is far more tight-knit and useful to its alumni than a Greek alumni network will ever be.
  
• The kids who will be part of Princeton's Class of 2013 are extremely well-resourced, either by their own hard work or socioeconomic privilege. I doubt very little will stop them if they really want to join a Greek organization.
  
• A good number of HS students pick Princeton because the Greek system is not dominant.
  
• President Tighlman is within her rights, as the president of a private university, to do this.This is also part of a larger trend of elite private universities pulling away from Greek Life (see Amherst, Middlebury, Williams, Dartmouth, etc., etc.)

So, why are we still bellyaching about this?

I guess I should go back to using my own search function This is the first year I have heard about it from Princeton.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

So, why are we still bellyaching about this?

If I was a student, I'd be plenty pissed off that my monies were going for something that 1) is so condescending and discriminatory and 2) obviously isn't working (or they wouldn't have to keep doing it every freaking year).

[chickenoodle]

Forgive the newbie; I have a question.

It was my understanding that in order to bring greek orgs onto a college campus, the college must give approval. If this is the case, why and when did Princeton change its policy?

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If I was a student, I'd be plenty pissed off that my monies were going for something that 1) is so condescending and discriminatory and 2) obviously isn't working (or they wouldn't have to keep doing it every freaking year).

But comparatively it's such a small amount of money, per student, that goes to sending out these letters or incorporating this into the new student orientation.

I could see why they do it every year, so that they get the message across to the new students. It may sound like a broken record to the rest of us, but the incoming students (their intended audience) are hearing it for the first time. If I remember correctly it's something that's also mentioned during the interviews with the alumni volunteers (if it's brought up by the student).

Maybe I'm a bit biased because I went to a university that was anti-Greek, with an anti-Greek administration as well. It was frustrating sometimes, but at the end of the day it didn't make a lot of difference. I don't see it as condesending or discriminatory - every school makes choices about what groups and organizations it will welcome, and which ones it will resist. Princeton has just made the decision not to welcome Greek life.

ETA: When I was in college, I probably would have been a little more fired up about it. Now though, a few years out of it, I understand where Princeton Greeks would be frustrated. At the same time, I don't quite see it being as big of a deal as I would have when I was 18-21.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

[*]President Tighlman is within her rights, as the president of a private university, to do this.This is also part of a larger trend of elite private universities pulling away from Greek Life (see Amherst, Middlebury, Williams, Dartmouth, etc., etc.)[/LIST]

I think Wesleyan has gotten more like this over the years - from friends I've had who've attended, they've said that Greek life, while never a major part of campus, has gotten more and more marginalized.

[Imus]

I think it is all about eliminating the eating club's competition.

[FSUZeta]

i wonder if it in anyway has to do with a potential "conflict" of loyalty, i.e., "should i make a donation to the alma mater or to my greek organization?" Eliminate the greek organization, there is one less entity competing for the dollars.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

i wonder if it in anyway has to do with a potential "conflict" of loyalty, i.e., "should i make a donation to the alma mater or to my greek organization?" Eliminate the greek organization, there is one less entity competing for the dollars.

If that was the case, more of Princeton's peer institutions--or more private schools as a whole--would get on that train. Most of those schools aren't really competing against Greek organizations for donation dollars the way that state schools seem to be. It's been my experience, from what I've seen of myself and friends at least, that our loyalty is to our undergraduate insitution as far as donations go, and our sororities and fraternities don't get much more than a $25-50 donation a year, if that. My friends who attended public universities tend to donate less to the school and more to the organization.

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I think Wesleyan has gotten more like this over the years - from friends I've had who've attended, they've said that Greek life, while never a major part of campus, has gotten more and more marginalized.

I always forget that Wesleyan has a Greek system. I know they had a few co-eds, but I'm not surprised at all from what I know about them.

[tld221]

Just read up on eating clubs - that sounds like so much fun. I see how its existence cuts into greek life - bicker clubs seem to bring money into the university and the social aspect seems to be much like what greek life offers.

But I can also see how bicker clubs can be economically/racially divisive, since it costs more than a meal plan, and may resemble an old-boy's-type network (ie "my mom/dad/sister/cousin was part of XYZ Club and so will I) that racial/economic minorities may not have access to.

Then again I know nothing about Princeton. Is there a "stereotypical" type of person who joins an eating club? It seems like its integral to campus culture and administration doesn't want that to fade/become less favorable.

[Imus]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

i wonder if it in anyway has to do with a potential "conflict" of loyalty, i.e., "should i make a donation to the alma mater or to my greek organization?" Eliminate the greek organization, there is one less entity competing for the dollars.

No. If that was the case then they would try to eliminate the eating clubs too. The alumni will still give money to eating clubs.

It is more about eating clubs vs greeks. The eating clubs are basically fraternities.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by tld221

Then again I know nothing about Princeton. Is there a "stereotypical" type of person who joins an eating club? It seems like its integral to campus culture and administration doesn't want that to fade/become less favorable.

Everyone I know who went to Princeton--of all racial and socioeconomic backgrounds--joined an eating club. For some, the costs were comparable to what the campus meal plan would have cost. Some were really inclusive and accepted all types of people, while others were a bit more exclusive.