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  #76  
Old 07-18-2007, 07:12 PM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum View Post
So much of the authenticity of MS standards really does depend on the chapter, especially the undergraduate leadership, too. (Are you choosing this PNM because she really is a great girl or because her brother or boyfriend is in a fraternity that you want to have more socials with? Both things help the group, but to me, one seems more legitimate than the other. If you are chapter that does consider her connections on campus, consider her connections at home as well, is all I'd say.)
This was similar to my earlier point. We all want girls who will be involved in the chapter and on campus, who will get good grades, who won't do anything embarrassing, and who will treat other sisters with respect and kindness.

When undergraduate women on either side of a large competitive rush talk about a poor "fit", IMO, they are generally referring to either appearance or sociability. This is true of both the chapter's view of a rushee and a rushee's view of the chapter. Unfortunately, a lot of decisions are made on the basis of "fit", which is really a meaningless concept. Some of you will say there may be a sporty house, or a studious house, or whatever, but I honestly do not think that is the case in chapters with over 100 women; they have women of all types.

So my point is not that you should choose a legacy over someone who honestly better meets the objective criteria for membership. It is that you should consider legacy status to be more important than some of the subjective stuff which really doesn't tell you much about how good a member the woman will turn out to be.
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  #77  
Old 07-19-2007, 10:47 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby View Post
So my point is not that you should choose a legacy over someone who honestly better meets the objective criteria for membership. It is that you should consider legacy status to be more important than some of the subjective stuff which really doesn't tell you much about how good a member the woman will turn out to be.
I don't think legacy status tells you how good a member a woman will turn out to be either...see honeychile's story. And even if the legacy is someone who wants to pledge, there's no guarantee she won't turn out to be a giant waste of space. I realize there are a lot more "just members" in large chapters - women who never hold office or do anything more than the minimum - but if you keep pledging legacies just because they're legacies, and don't take into account things you take into account w/ other rushees (like personality or grades or involvement) eventually you might end up with a whole chapter full of 100 "just members" and no one with leadership qualities.

Please don't think I'm saying all legacies are like this - far from it - but the thing is, I think I would hate to be chosen for something just because of who my mother or sister was, if someone didn't really want me or I didn't measure up.
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  #78  
Old 07-19-2007, 11:22 AM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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33Girl,

I may be wrong, but when I read DeltaBetaBaby's post, I think she's completely agree with you. It's the stuff that"fit" sometimes used to describe that, rather than anything more objective, she thinks you might need to look hard at in the case of legacies.

As near as I can tell, there's nobody who thinks that legacies should get bids just because they are legacies. (unless their my hypothetical legacies, in which case that should be more than enough.) If there's reason to believe that another girl has stronger leadership traits, that's a totally valid thing to consider. Someone else begin cuter if the legacy is cute herself, not so much, IMO.
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  #79  
Old 07-19-2007, 11:44 PM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum View Post
33Girl,

I may be wrong, but when I read DeltaBetaBaby's post, I think she's completely agree with you. It's the stuff that"fit" sometimes used to describe that, rather than anything more objective, she thinks you might need to look hard at in the case of legacies.

As near as I can tell, there's nobody who thinks that legacies should get bids just because they are legacies. (unless their my hypothetical legacies, in which case that should be more than enough.) If there's reason to believe that another girl has stronger leadership traits, that's a totally valid thing to consider. Someone else begin cuter if the legacy is cute herself, not so much, IMO.
Yes, this is exactly what I meant. If two girls were both involved in high school, get good grades, and want to live in the house/be officers, you should put the one who is a legacy over the one who happens to be a little more outgoing during rush.
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  #80  
Old 07-20-2007, 10:43 AM
Zillini Zillini is offline
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As jwright25 said, every year ADPi publishes that alums won't be getting a phone call. We used to but the policy was changed several years back. From what I've been told and it may or may not be accurate, the primary reason for the change was that on so many campuses the number of legacies going through Recruitment was huge. There just isn't time.

For example, as I recall last year at one SEC school there was 1 1/2 times quota of legacies going through. My memory is hazy but quota was somewhere around 80, so that would mean about 120 legacies. Invite lists are typically due at about 5am. Even if MS sessions end by say 2am, the Recruitment Team still needs to generate the actual list to submit to Panhellenic and that takes time. The invites are then distributed to the pnm's at around 8am. It's impossible to make all those calls for the simple reason that the actives and advisors are busy with the next round of Recruitment. Or maybe trying to get some sleep. Once Recruitment is finished we send out letters telling an alum where their legacy ended up.

As a parent I can understand the anger and frustration of not receiving a phone call, but as an advisor I appreciate not having to make those calls. They rarely go well. Each year I still field numerous calls from angry alums. They demand to know why and I can't tell them. I've heard threats to turn in their pin and/or quit contributing money. Some even call HQ or the University to file complaints.

We don't release legacies frivolously, but we do release them. Sometimes we have to because of the sheer numbers of legacies going through. I feel horrible for all the mothers, sisters, grandmothers out there when that happens. But please ladies know that being a legacy no longer means a guaranteed bid. Those times are long gone.

Allow me a moment to vent with one last comment to alums, please find out what the minimum GPA is for the Chapter in question is before calling up to complain. If it's 3.0 or higher and your legacy has a 2.5, please don't call. You and more importantly she should have been thinking about this back in HS. Being a legacy doesn't compensate for poor grades.
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  #81  
Old 08-15-2007, 03:41 PM
Lucybug Lucybug is offline
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I don't normally respond to these, but yours struck a nerve. My daughter just went through rush and was cut from my sorority on the third day. Not only did I have to hear it from her (as opposed to national HQ or from a chapter alum), she got the news via cell phone!! Obviously, that is the way they do it there. But can you imagine? And to make things worse, when my daughter called me to tell me she had been "released from rush", I started laughing thinking she was playing a "joke" on me! To put the icing on the cake, her roommate pledged MY sorority!!!! Can it get any worse than that? My child is so hurt, not because she (or I) felt like she should automatically be given a legacy bid, but because she really liked them alot and they expressed the same to her, even talking about me and the legacy connection. At this point, I am asking myself "What is the point in even being a "legacy" if it doesn't count for anything?" Why even mention it on the rush application?" I think what I am most hurt about is that my local alum group knew she was going through and the rec. chair did the rec. and not one of them has even bothered to call or e-mail to show support. Obviously, it has never happened to them or they would have for sure. Sorry to be so negative and yes, I know I sound bitter. But truly, its just more hurt and frustration than anything. When your child hurts, you do too!
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  #82  
Old 08-15-2007, 05:04 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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dear lucybug, i am so sorry that you and your daughter are having to go thru this. it must be so hard for you both.

i wonder if your alumnae sisters have even learned yet that your daughter did not receive a bid? that may be why they have not called. then too, some
people are very uncomfortable sharing their condolences of any kind. this might be the case.

maybe daughters roommate receiving a bid will be a silver lining. through roomie, daughter might get to know many of the sisters, and should daughter decide to give greek life another try next year, the results will be different.
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  #83  
Old 08-15-2007, 09:41 PM
kathyc kathyc is offline
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I can say from experience that it is gut wrenching to get the hysterical phone call from your daughter after your sorority has cut her. My daughter was cut after third round (something we NEVER did when I was in school. Always by second round) I was not notified and was completely blindsided by it. So much so that I had to regain my own composure before I could help my darling daughter who was in so much pain. She ended up pledging another group and is completely happy. I was so ticked at my sorority for not having the courtesy to let me break it to my own child. Fast forward to this year-my roomate's daughter was also cut from our own chapter after third round. (what is it with this third round business?) She did in fact get a call and instead of a post card her daughter was able to hear her mother say "I'm so sorry, baby but...". Trust me, the disappointment was much easier to manage. I know that they are busy and there ar so many girls but I believe a phone call could be managed.
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  #84  
Old 08-16-2007, 05:24 PM
WregleXO WregleXO is offline
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Cutting legacies

My sister is the chapter advisor at Auburn and she told me that all XO alumni that have a child going through rush at are sent a communication before rush asking them how they wanted to be contacted if their legacy was cut - either phone call or email (I think that she preferred the email method so she didn't have to talk to angry moms).

Last edited by PenguinTrax; 08-17-2007 at 12:13 PM. Reason: membership selection procedures are private
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  #85  
Old 08-16-2007, 05:40 PM
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NutBrnHair NutBrnHair is offline
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Please let's be cautious about posting private membership selection information. Statements might not be 100% accurate for the current time and also, it's private information.

Thanks.
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  #86  
Old 08-17-2007, 11:20 AM
Aphigal Aphigal is offline
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I think this is a hard situation. I understand the pain of Mom's not being notified in a manner they expect, yet at the sametime as a International Recruitment Volunteer am frustrated that our EO burns more time on dealing with released legacies for weeks, months, and oh yes years after recruitment instead of focusing on best servicing the needs of the chapters.

Many NPC groups are changing thier policies in light of release figures, more legacies than Q and modified forms of recruitment (what if your first invite party is pref - some require a legacy be invited to the first invitational round- quite a problem there). Expect more changes and more unahppy alums unfortunately.
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  #87  
Old 08-17-2007, 11:45 AM
bejazd bejazd is offline
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Well, we've done this to ourselves and it stinks. When we all as NPC sisters realize and start singing "we're all in this together, once we know that we are ...we can all believe we are stars!" then we'll stop cannibalizing support for our individual groups from all those alums who have loved and supported their sisterhoods for years...only to be left with a nasty taste in their mouth after their daughters go through recruitment.

I've said it here before and I'll say it forever. Every PNM with an NPC connection should be considered an NPC legacy and thumbs up to her...but let each PNM and each chapter stand on her own merit and be free to make their own choices and be supported by all.
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