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Sorority Recruitment Recruitment event and bid day ideas, membership retention, publicity, recruitment policies, etc.


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  #31  
Old 07-15-2007, 01:35 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB View Post
Recruitment is about the PNM and the collegiate members, NOT the alumnae. That may be hard for some women to believe, but it IS...otherwise ALUMNAE would participate in recruitment, too. I think the PNM should have a right to privacy and to be the first to know. If I was a PNM cut by my mother's house during recruitment, I would be FURIOUS if I got a call from her telling me that or if I knew she knew before I did.

College students are adults. That's why most of them move out of the house or move far away when they go to college. Recruitment should be an experience they can go through without their mommies fighting the fights for them, or demanding to know things about their life at college before they even do.
How does calling the alumna after the decision is made equate with recruitment being more about the alumna than about the actives and PNMs?

You're following up on the legacy notification that the alumna sent to the chapter, not breaking down the PNM's recruitment results generally.

ETA: I'm not trying to be antagonistic. If I were a member of your group, I suspect the not-calling policy would seem as natural as breathing. But it's seems like some people seem to think that call means a lot more than it does. It's just a courtesy that the chapter as representatives of the GLO shows the alumna member.

Last edited by UGAalum94; 07-15-2007 at 01:45 PM.
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  #32  
Old 07-15-2007, 01:46 PM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honeychile View Post
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - we have GOT to revisit the NPC Legacy Situation before we lose more mothers and even more daughters!
HC, what would you prefer to see done? I don't know that I know your full position on this.
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  #33  
Old 07-15-2007, 02:01 PM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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FYI

www.greekstation.com has very nice cards to sent to alumnae to thank them for sending a recommendation, including one with a space for listing where the pnm ended up pledging.
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  #34  
Old 07-15-2007, 02:08 PM
ChildoftheHorn ChildoftheHorn is offline
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Yeah,

My grandma is still not happy that I didnt join her sorority. She had her heart set on it for a long time from what I can tell. I mean, she used to look after me in the summertime while my parents were at wokr. Her sisters would and still do meet twice a week to play bridge. I grew up knowing all of them and I guess I learned a few things I shouldn't know (don't worry, I haven't passed it on). I didn't even realize those were secrets till I got to college!

My mother's sorority isn't at my school, so it wasn't an issue.

My aunt also really wanted me to join her sorority, very badly. She was even telling me the stuff that the members do to indicate a bad conversation, even worse, the "let her go sign". Man, I was having a bad day during the second to last day of recruitment and was not my usual self.

It showed and I had the most cuts that day. It was aweful and I could hear my grandmother crying in the background when I told her. My aunt took it better, but I have only ever seen her cry once. Worst of all, I felt like I had dissappointed them. It was expected of me to join a certain sorority, and I had failed them. Parents may go through a lot, but if you are a legacy you will have to go through much worse. All your known life you have had a certain thing placed before you and you have now caused people you love pain. That is what it feels like.

I will say, however, fate can be a cruel and giving mistress. I could not have asked for a group of people that I could more call sisters. There is just something that clicks and makes you realize how it just wasn't there before or with anyone else.
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  #35  
Old 07-15-2007, 02:10 PM
SoCalGirl SoCalGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB View Post
That may be hard for some women to believe, but it IS...otherwise ALUMNAE would participate in recruitment, too.
Alum do participate in recruitment. Just because they don't have a vote doesn't mean they're not important. They're recruitment advisors and supervisors. They're in the kitchen prepping the food. They're writing the recs that are vital at many schools.

If a sorority has a policy of not calling then the alumna should be aware of it and it's all a moot point. For the sororities that still have the policy of calling I think it's vital to make an attempt to contact the alumna. That being said, if I were to get a call before 7am I would not be happy. Even if they were calling to say they did bid my hypothetical legacy. Calls in the middle of the night are supposed to be saved for deaths and births. Failing to recieve a bid is neither.

When I was in school we usually weren't starting MS until after 11pm and were very lucky if we got to leave by 1am. The President, VPM, Recruitment Advisor, and/or Recruitment Supervisor then had a few more hours ahead of them. I recall one year when the lists were due by 3am our VPM showed up early but she was told that the chapters had to be added in alphabetical order. She had to wait for the seven other sororities lists to arrive an be entered before ours could be done! It was insane that happened and I hope it's no longer an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum View Post
How does calling the alumna after the decision is made equate with recruitment being more about the alumna than about the actives and PNMs?

You're following up on the legacy notification that the alumna sent to the chapter, not breaking down the PNM's recruitment results generally.
I don't personally think I'd want SK to move to a policy of not calling alumna but I think that there should be some flexibility in the policy. An alumna should be required, before recruitment begins, to indicate if and how she'd like to be contacted. Some women would want the calls while others wouldn't. Some would want to know ASAP wehere as other can wait till after 7am. Some would be happy with an email.

These calls are meant to be "We regret to inform you that your legacy has been released from XYZ." Not, "We voted and only 30% thought she should get a bid because the others thought she was a tramp for making out with four guys during the first week of school." No reasons or results. Simply tell the alumna that the legacy didn't get a bid and then do what you need to do to get off the phone.
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  #36  
Old 07-15-2007, 02:28 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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SoCalGirl,

I think that maybe the legacy introduction forms could ask about type of notification the alumna would prefer. That would also remind her than she can't expect the PNM to get a bid just because she was member.

It should be regarded as a courtesy by the alumna too, and she shouldn't make it a more unpleasant than it has to be. There are very few objective aspects to MS, and she's never going to get a truly satisfying explanation, so everyone should recognize that's not what the call is about. It's a courtesy; it spares the PNM from having to break the news if it is a case where she is going to feel that she let the member down, but it's not an extension of MS.

I got myself into an unpleasant situation in another thread asking about Gamma Phi's policy, but I really do think there are reasons why other GLOs should consider moving towards it. First among them is the idea that many chapters don't seem to be honoring it anyway. And that's a double whammy. The alumna thinks no call is good news; the pnm gets cut. The alumna may be disappointed she got cut, but even if she wasn't concerned about the cut, she's probably kind of miffed that the GLO policy wasn't followed. (And if the PNM really wanted the chapter, the alumna is now upset about two things: her legacy's hurt feelings, and the chapter's cavalier attitude about GLO policy.)

Last edited by UGAalum94; 07-16-2007 at 06:59 AM.
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  #37  
Old 07-15-2007, 11:01 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I think sorority members should be notified if their legacy is dropped. The question is WHEN.

My mom wasn't in a sorority, but I thought, what if she had been and been grooming me to pledge that group for 18 years - and they dropped me the second day? Everyone's mom is different, but I have the feeling I would have been so busy consoling my mom that life would go on that the 6 other invites I got wouldn't have meant jack to me. Or to her. I would probably drop out of rush rather than have to deal with that and miss what could have been a great experience.

Then of course, you have another side of the coin - the rushee can't stand the legacy chapter and doesn't want to disappoint her mom by telling her "hey Mom, these girls are total jerks" and instead of telling her mom she cut them, tells Mom the sorority dropped her.

It seems like parents have so much more invested in their kids nowadays - emotionally and $wise and timewise - that the thought of having to tell them anything negative is enough to cast a pall on all of rush week.
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  #38  
Old 07-15-2007, 11:46 PM
honeychile honeychile is offline
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33girl, my chapter was on both sides of that coin when I was in school: a legacy who we couldn't stand, and one that didn't like us. We weren't permitted to drop the one, as she was a 5-generation legacy and those orders came from EO. The other, thankfully, dropped us before we had a problem. The 5-generation legacy simply did not want to be in ANY sorority; she got initiated at Convention, then transferred to a school without a Greek system. We truly did feel sorry for her, once we heard the whole story, but that stands out as the roughest Rush we ever did - and I was Membership Information Chairman at the time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum View Post
I think that maybe the legacy introduction forms could ask about type of notification the alumna would prefer. That would also remind her than she can't expect the PNM to get a bid just because she was member.

It should be regarded as a courtesy by the alumna too, and she shouldn't make is an more unpleasant than it has to be. There are very few objective aspects to MS, and she's never going to get a truly satisfying explanation, so everyone should recognize that's not what the call is about. It's a courtesy; it spares the PNM from having to break the news if it is a case where she is going to feel that she let the member down, but it's not an extension of MS.
I think this is a great idea! That way, even before R starts, the PNM will be ever so aware that R is a two-way street, and she and her mother/sister/grandmother can make the choice together. I think it would save a LOT of hurt feelings.

So many legacies are legacies to more than one GLO anymore, that adding another chapter could give double legacies two chances at a legacy house. Yes, the quota would be smaller (maybe 75 instead of 90?), but in this particular situation, R would run more smoothly.

I keep hearing about R with 150 legacies showing up at houses when Quota is 100, and you just have to know that there are going to be at least 20 heartbreaks in that scenario. And heartbreaks during R can too easily translate into anti-greek feelings - that's why I'm so concerned with the whole legacy situation.

The second part of this is the legacy who's dropped just prior to Pref. Unless this legacy has been arrested for being a member of Charles Manson's band, there is simply NO EXCUSE for doing this. Too often, the other GLOs have figured, "Oh, she's going XYZ, why waste an invitation on her?" and so a legacy - the PNM who is supposed to get a step up in R is left high and dry. If I never hear of another time that this happens, it will be too soon!
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  #39  
Old 07-16-2007, 12:16 AM
jwright25 jwright25 is offline
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I have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and opinions on this issue, because it is one that I have had to deal with and am sure to deal with many times again. My organization does not have a policy requiring chapters to call or send a letter or anything. And I like it that way. I am not a fan of the phone call, for several reasons:

1. As stated earlier in the thread, the PNM is an adult. The decision to participate in recruitment was hers to make alone, and she can legally do it without parental consent. Additionally, some PNMs might not want to admit that they have been released and would prefer to say or act like the decision was hers. That's her business. Not Mom's. There are privacy laws preventing Universities from divulging information to parents. Even though our sororities do not receive federal funds and are not always subject to the same laws, perhaps we should consider them as a guideline.

2. Even though several of you have commented that it SHOULD be this way, it will be the very rare phone call that Mom says, "OKTHXBYE." More likely the advisor or President will get questions about "why" and questions about whether or not it can be reversed and threats to call Executive Office. Stress that they don't need during recruitment. Questions that they can't answer because they are about MS.

3. While I believe that alumnae are necessary and valuable assets to our organizations (I'm one), I do not believe that they are entitled to know privileged membership selection information. Who is invited to parties or who is not is privileged membership selection information.

4. The educated alumna will not only encourage her daughter to make her own decisions and join the sorority that is right for her, she will also understand that perhaps her daughter is not right for her sorority. There is a reason that our organizations (well, mine at least) do not allow alumnae to participate in membership selection. Mine does not even allow alumnae to ATTEND MS unless they are an advisor or international officer. Alumnae have the privilege of recommending members, but they do not have the privilege of selecting them. So why should they have the privilege of know who was NOT selected?

NOTE: When an organization has a policy in place that requires the phone call, I believe that it should be made. In no way would I suggest that chapters go against an inter/national policy. I am debating the practice in general, not whether or not chapters should adhere to rules.

I am curious to hear a reason for the notification beyond "respect the alumna." Why is it necessary to hear it from the chapter (if you can't hear the reason why) as opposed to hearing it from the PNM?
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  #40  
Old 07-16-2007, 07:06 AM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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It's really interesting to me that you think the party lists are privileged membership selection. I don't think that way at all.
Once the list comes out of the meeting to be sent to panhellenic to match with PNMs, I don't think it's private MS anymore. (I mean, just the list of names stops being MS. How you developed the list is still MS.)

ETA: Respect for the alumna IS really the only reason that I think the calls should be made, but for me, that would be enough. And again, I only mean for groups that have set up the expectation she be called. If we are talking about changing policies, I don't know that this notification has to be a phone call before the PNM receives her invite list. But I think it might be wise for groups to try to reach out in some way to the alumna because the rejection of someone in her immediate family might create some complicated feelings. Maybe it could be a well-thought-out, composed-by-the-national/international GLO letter: I have no idea. It's just been my experience that people take their family members pretty personally and reaching out to a member after you cut her daughter or sister might be a gesture of good will.

I also don't think recruitment party lists or invite lists are the kind of thing that we should worry about keeping tightly within the bounds of privacy. I don't mean that we should post them publicly (although I think bid day new member lists being publicly available are fine), but that calling a girl's mother, grandmother, or sister to tell them the name of one PNM who isn't invited back, isn't a big privacy violation. From my perspective, the call doesn't have that much to do with the PNM anyway; it's all about the relationship with the alumna.

Again, I'm not saying that groups should have to take legacies if they don't want them. Other than sending a recommendation or legacy notification, I don't think the alumna should try to influence MS. But once the chapter has made the decision, notifying her isn't too much to ask, IMO.

Last edited by UGAalum94; 07-16-2007 at 08:29 PM.
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  #41  
Old 07-16-2007, 01:04 PM
seraphimsprite seraphimsprite is offline
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I understand the concerns about PNM privacy that some have raised, but the thing is, once a PNM is released, I would expect most of our organizations are going to be far more concerned about the relationship with their own alumna than the released PNM.

The phone calls are a way for our organizations to maintain relationships with and show respect for our alumnae. Making a courtesy call doesn't mean we're letting our alums "control" or influence membership selection - the decisions have already been made - but it seems only the polite thing to do to let one of our sisters know that we've released their daughter/relative.

I made quite a few of these calls as a Recruitment Supervisor and I have to say, I've never had an alum try to press me into revealing membership selection details. In fact most of the calls I've made were met with a simple "all right, thanks for letting me know" and the few who've asked "why?" accepted a response along the lines of "it was the chapter's decision, can't reveal MS conversations, etc etc" And I generally waited until the next afternoon to make the calls anyway - I'm not going to wake an alum up in the middle of the night for one thing. But I also didn't feel the need to "beat" the PNM to telling the alum - sometimes I did, sometimes I didn't. The important thing in my mind was that the call was made at all.
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  #42  
Old 07-16-2007, 01:10 PM
AlphaFrog AlphaFrog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seraphimsprite View Post
"it was the chapter's decision, can't reveal MS conversations, etc etc"
We never had a legacy go through, so I don't know the official rules, etc, but it seems to me, since you're talking to an initiated sister about official business, that "MS" line is BS.
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  #43  
Old 07-16-2007, 02:12 PM
lyrelyre lyrelyre is offline
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Originally Posted by seraphimsprite View Post
I made quite a few of these calls as a Recruitment Supervisor and I have to say, I've never had an alum try to press me into revealing membership selection details. In fact most of the calls I've made were met with a simple "all right, thanks for letting me know" and the few who've asked "why?" accepted a response along the lines of "it was the chapter's decision, can't reveal MS conversations, etc etc"
Then you are very, very lucky. I have been a recruitment advisor for a few years and every single alumna I have called has wanted to know why their legacy was released and, in my experience, they do not take the standard answer. However, I have no problem sharing the "real" reason they are released, in a PC manner, of course.
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  #44  
Old 07-16-2007, 02:16 PM
seraphimsprite seraphimsprite is offline
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Originally Posted by AlphaFrog View Post
We never had a legacy go through, so I don't know the official rules, etc, but it seems to me, since you're talking to an initiated sister about official business, that "MS" line is BS.
It's really not though. Maybe it's different in your organization, but in my experience MS discussions are supposed to remain in the room. It's a little different than official business from an ordinary chapter meeting, IMO. If all initiated sisters had a right to know MS conversations, then would we start telling members that they were towards the bottom of our bid list once we initiated them? Or any discussion that might have been had about a member?
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  #45  
Old 07-16-2007, 02:23 PM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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And don't forget - you are not just discussing any random ms business, you would be telling a grandmother/mother/aunt/sister why her legacy was cut. Thus, it is fraught with more potential to hurt the member's feelings.
(Still like our policy - but I would expect one of those cards I referenced earlier!)
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