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  #31  
Old 02-25-2007, 01:35 PM
hmd1014 hmd1014 is offline
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As shameful as this situation is, it should be noted that the campus—in particular, the Greek culture—is far from blameless, despite the outrage being expressed by students and the administration. To quote from a few letters to The DePauw:

http://media.www.thedepauw.com/media...-2731281.shtml

Quote:
Being a DZ was difficult, especially during rush. Rumors spread that we were not cute, not partiers, not popular. Every year we fought to combat those stereotypes. We only pledged "cute" girls. We dressed up for class. We made sure to party at fraternities. We had meetings about our image. But it still wasn't good enough. So we decided to be ourselves, to concentrate on sisterhood.

But you, the campus, didn't bite. You believed the rumors over the reality. That's when nationals revamped the Delta Zeta image and placed 23 women on alumnae status.

Women on campus: Why did you choose not to join Delta Zeta? Was it because we were unsocial? Unfriendly? Ugly? Or was it because you were scared to not be in the popular house?
http://media.www.thedepauw.com/media...-2731285.shtml

Quote:
The problems with DZ did not happen overnight, so if Kathi Heatherly has 25 years of experience with Delta Zeta, ... why didn't she demand changes by the governing councils about acceptable behavior of greek organizations toward one another when the despicable actions and attitudes of the other sororities and fraternities started years ago toward DZ?

The reorganization of DZ will not work as long as the greek population continues to exhibit the shallow mentality pervasive at DePauw. I wonder how the new "bottom" sorority will feel when the other sororities now shun them because interacting with them will affect their social standing? I told my daughter not to pledge DZ because of their reputation, but she said they were genuine, authentic girls unlike the superficial, materialistic "Barbie Doll" sororities. ...

I am proud of my daughter for seeing that nurturing, authentic relationships are important in life, rather than how many Jimmy Choo shoes you own or whether you have a pretty face. You can lose all that in a blink of an eye. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be a value important to DZ nationals or the other greek organizations. Twenty-nine Delta Zetas are now cheated out of memories that the other greeks will have. After only one semester in the house, my daughter's "memories" as a new alumna are memories of the semester from hell.
http://media.www.thedepauw.com/media...-2716354.shtml

Quote:
Some of the very sorority women who now demand explanations were previously unwilling to accept a dinner invitation to Delta Zeta because they were concerned the association might hurt their own social prestige. Some fraternities refused to hold functions with Delta Zeta and others forbid their members to date Delta Zetas. ... For years DePauw students have encouraged freshmen to pledge "anywhere but DZ." Yet they now respond with indignation?
  #32  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:08 PM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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A lot of people in this thread are quick to criticize DZ for basing their decisions at least partially on appearance. Are you honestly going to tell me that you do not judge appearances when you recruit new members? You can say it if you like; I won't believe you, especially those in NPC groups. Just take a quick look at the number of threads where we have advised PNM's on clothing and hairstyles and shoes.

Besides, if HQ had shut the chapter down, these woman would have all gotten alumnae status. Their feelings would have been hurt. They would have felt that HQ put the business of the sorority above their really strong, but small, sisterhood. Hey, guess what? That happens at least once per year in the NPC world.

So basically, the outrage is not over giving some women alumnae status, it is over allowing some women to retain collegiate status. The posters in this thread would rather HQ take that away from the women who were allowed to stay?
  #33  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby View Post
A lot of people in this thread are quick to criticize DZ for basing their decisions at least partially on appearance. Are you honestly going to tell me that you do not judge appearances when you recruit new members? You can say it if you like; I won't believe you, especially those in NPC groups. Just take a quick look at the number of threads where we have advised PNM's on clothing and hairstyles and shoes.
I can honestly say (and am proud to say) that my chapter definitely doesn't recruit based on appearance and I don't care if you don't believe me.

Take a look at my collegiate chapter's website and see for yourself. Does it matter that my sisters aren't hot, blonde, and slender? Absolutely not. They're quality. And that's what matters.

Granted, I'm not from a campus with a competitive rush and PNM clothing, hairstyles, etc. etc. definitely doesn't apply to my or my chapter...so please don't paint us all with the same brush. THX.
  #34  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:16 PM
PKTKKG PKTKKG is offline
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It is a shame that there is so much negative PR for everyone involved in this situation. Each NPC group has had to deal with chapter reorgainization at some time or another, and it is a difficult thing.

I knew of a group whose HQ came in for a big campus wide PR blitz and COB effort in the spring only to vote to yank a charter less than 6 months later because recruitment goals were not met. How terrible for those women who had pledged that spring and been initiated only to have the charter pulled a short time later. This happened just 5 years after this same group had all current chapter members go alum, sat out of recruitment, and then re-colonized after formal recruitment was over. There were bitter feelings all around and they never did regain any momentum.

These are never easy situations and it is really sad to see the dirty laundry aired. I had the New York Times article in my Sunday paper this morning, and while I am not a DZ I absolutely hate to see this kind of negative PR for any group because it is bad for the entire system as a whole.
  #35  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:28 PM
Phimuteach Phimuteach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby View Post
A lot of people in this thread are quick to criticize DZ for basing their decisions at least partially on appearance. Are you honestly going to tell me that you do not judge appearances when you recruit new members? You can say it if you like; I won't believe you, especially those in NPC groups. Just take a quick look at the number of threads where we have advised PNM's on clothing and hairstyles and shoes.
It's true that appearances do matter, especially during recruitment. However, this is a much DIFFERENT experience than being dropped during recruitment. These women were already initiated sisters. It's different than dropping a potential member because she looked bad during recruitment.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby View Post
So basically, the outrage is not over giving some women alumnae status, it is over allowing some women to retain collegiate status. The posters in this thread would rather HQ take that away from the women who were allowed to stay?
Yep, that's basically it. IMO, DZ HQ should have either helped the chapter get the recruitment results they needed, or closed the chapter. Are feelings going to get hurt when a chapter is closed? Heck yeah. But it's better than straight up telling some girls they are not good enough. If they weren't good enough, they shouldn't have been initiated in the first place.

Basically, the whole situation is screwed up. I think DZ made a huge mistake, and they should own up to it. Do I think the state of the chapter before these events is the fault of DZ HQ? No. However, the way they handled the situation was crap.
  #36  
Old 02-25-2007, 03:14 PM
Buttonz Buttonz is offline
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What bothers me is the way it was handled by DZ's HQ, plus the fact that out of the 12 sisters that were deemed "good enough" to stay, 6 chose to leave. That says more to me then anything else.
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  #37  
Old 02-25-2007, 03:20 PM
GeekyPenguin GeekyPenguin is offline
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Of course appearances matter - but it's not about pledging skinny white girls - it's about pledging girls who are classy and presentable. If you are a size 22 who shows up at my chapter in a sundress and a cute shrug for skit day, I'd rather pledge you then a size 2 who shows up in one of those cupcake skirts from Abercrombie and a shrunken sweater so I can see your belly jewelry. It would be one thing if those women at DePauw were overweight and sloppy/mousy/blah blah blah - but it sounds like they were just overweight. What sorority doesn't have overweight alumnae? Not everybody stays a size 2 past college.

ETA: And I agree with buttonz - the six sisters who were deemed "worthy" that left obviously felt something was fishy about the reorganization. My chapter reorganized the year before I joined and I think Gamma Phi Beta handled it much better than DZ did - certainly we were on a campus that was much easier to reorganize at because it was done so quietly that nobody knew about it, which is impossible to do at a school like DePauw, but also, people were judged on their worth as a sister, not their appearance to a group of middle-aged women.

Last edited by GeekyPenguin; 02-25-2007 at 03:23 PM.
  #38  
Old 02-25-2007, 03:25 PM
dvs-dz dvs-dz is offline
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I'm not familiar with the NPC Green Book, but perhaps they need to address how to provide assistance at the local level to struggling chapters (adjusting quota/total, etc).
  #39  
Old 02-25-2007, 03:32 PM
texas*princess texas*princess is offline
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That is very classless of the HQ to do that. I don't blame the six deemed worthy to stay who left. I would have done the same thing.

Oh wait - I'm a minority and have never been anything skinner than a 4, so they probably would have kicked me out.

And in a make believe world if I was a freshman going into rush, I'd avoid that house like the plague because I think what they did was awful regardless of how beautiful the chapter members were now.

Last edited by texas*princess; 02-25-2007 at 03:34 PM.
  #40  
Old 02-25-2007, 03:46 PM
Buttonz Buttonz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texas*princess View Post
And in a make believe world if I was a freshman going into rush, I'd avoid that house like the plague because I think what they did was awful regardless of how beautiful the chapter members were now.
Agreed.
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  #41  
Old 02-25-2007, 03:53 PM
Phimuteach Phimuteach is offline
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The sad thing is, based on rush results, the chapter will probably close anyway (3 girls is not a promising figure). What a shame that these women had to go through this. For what?

Hopefully the DZ HQ will learn from their mistake and move on. I wonder if they will issue any kind of apology to these women? They certainly should.
  #42  
Old 02-25-2007, 04:13 PM
ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby View Post
A lot of people in this thread are quick to criticize DZ for basing their decisions at least partially on appearance. Are you honestly going to tell me that you do not judge appearances when you recruit new members? You can say it if you like; I won't believe you, especially those in NPC groups. Just take a quick look at the number of threads where we have advised PNM's on clothing and hairstyles and shoes.

Besides, if HQ had shut the chapter down, these woman would have all gotten alumnae status. Their feelings would have been hurt. They would have felt that HQ put the business of the sorority above their really strong, but small, sisterhood. Hey, guess what? That happens at least once per year in the NPC world.

So basically, the outrage is not over giving some women alumnae status, it is over allowing some women to retain collegiate status. The posters in this thread would rather HQ take that away from the women who were allowed to stay?
Yes. I'm honestly going to tell you that we don't judge based on appearance, in regards to god-given looks. Don't believe me? I'm not lying...the link in my signature is to my webshots of the chapter...most of them are well-groomed, nice looking girls. They are NOT all skinny. They are NOT all blonde. They do NOT all dress alike. I think my sisters are gorgeous, because they do their OWN thing. We do encourage our members to be well groomed...as in shower, dress tastefully. But we do not pick girls just because they are pretty or reject girls solely because they are not pretty or skinny or dressed like everyone else. Even if I met DZ standards at that particular chapter (and I'm sure I wouldn't, for several reasons), I wouldn't be interested in being a part of that.

Personally, yes, I think they should have closed the entire chapter and re-colonized. It says so much that six of the twelve deemed good enough left of their own accord.

Based on what I've read about the DePauw greek life it does seem ridiculously focused on who is the hottest. That kind of thing is what gives Greeks a bad rap...and sometimes makes me ashamed to be participating in the system. I chose to here because it's not very competitive, therefore the chapters are more diverse. It looks like DZ didn't have a chance as the chapter it was, but it seems like they were the best group on campus because they were themselves. I realize sororities are also businesses, but it's a shame that HQ was so desperate to have a chapter there that they would rather tell some sisters they weren't good enough to be active than to just say to hell with it and not participate in that.

Last edited by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl; 02-25-2007 at 04:16 PM.
  #43  
Old 02-25-2007, 04:14 PM
ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texas*princess View Post
That is very classless of the HQ to do that. I don't blame the six deemed worthy to stay who left. I would have done the same thing.

Oh wait - I'm a minority and have never been anything skinner than a 4, so they probably would have kicked me out.

And in a make believe world if I was a freshman going into rush, I'd avoid that house like the plague because I think what they did was awful regardless of how beautiful the chapter members were now.
WELL said.
  #44  
Old 02-25-2007, 04:18 PM
Buttonz Buttonz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby View Post
A lot of people in this thread are quick to criticize DZ for basing their decisions at least partially on appearance. Are you honestly going to tell me that you do not judge appearances when you recruit new members? You can say it if you like; I won't believe you, especially those in NPC groups. Just take a quick look at the number of threads where we have advised PNM's on clothing and hairstyles and shoes.
Appearances never mattered to my chapter. Most of us were average sized girls, sized 12-16 or so, and it never made a difference to us. I think if we were told that we had to get "prettier" or "skinner" most of us would have turned in our letters on the spot. Looks do not make a sisterhood and anyone who thinks they do needs to reevaluate what sisterhood is.
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  #45  
Old 02-25-2007, 04:56 PM
SmartBlondeGPhB SmartBlondeGPhB is offline
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Originally Posted by PKTKKG View Post
These are never easy situations and it is really sad to see the dirty laundry aired. I had the New York Times article in my Sunday paper this morning, and while I am not a DZ I absolutely hate to see this kind of negative PR for any group because it is bad for the entire system as a whole.
I was just about to ask if anyone else had that article in their Sunday paper. It made our front page this morning.
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