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  #16  
Old 02-24-2007, 08:07 PM
ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl is offline
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Wow. Maybe there WERE other factors. I hope so. It seems convenient that overweight women and minority women were handed alumnae status (or left)...sometimes it is necessary to reorganize because some women consistently have an unacceptable GPA, or consistently act in a manner totally unacceptable to the organization. I do find it odd, though.

I would think if it's true that the women were removed for phsycial reasons that would actually hurt the chapter. I don't know. I read the article which said three of the eleven they attracted sought membership. The fact that six of the twelve deemed acceptable to be active sisters left in protest says a lot.

I do know if I went through rush there, even if I met their standards, I wouldn't be interested at all if I'd heard about the situation.

Last edited by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl; 02-24-2007 at 08:27 PM.
  #17  
Old 02-24-2007, 11:32 PM
ladygreek ladygreek is offline
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What is interesting to me is that the NPHC stresses lifetime commitment and quality over quantity, which is why we don't "recruit."

If it is true that the women evicted were all overweight or people-of-color, that is indeed sad. But as someone has said, there are two sides to a story. But I gotta tell ya, having 6 of the remaining 12 quit does speak volumes to me.

Oh yeah, I too, do not view this as a blight on Delta Zeta as a whole. All of our leaders are capable of making mistakes.
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  #18  
Old 02-24-2007, 11:45 PM
ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladygreek View Post
What is interesting to me is that the NPHC stresses lifetime commitment and quality over quantity, which is why we don't "recruit."

If it is true that the women evicted were all overweight or people-of-color, that is indeed sad. But as someone has said, there are two sides to a story. But I gotta tell ya, having 6 of the remaining 12 quit does speak volumes to me.

Oh yeah, I too, do not view this as a blight on Delta Zeta as a whole. All of our leaders are capable of making mistakes.
I think there's definitely something to be said about that. Sometimes I think NPC groups give way to "business" more than sisterhood...personally I'd like to believe when I join a group I'm going to remain a sister for life unless I endanger the other sisters by my own actions. It's not always the case. I like NPHC's methods very much.
  #19  
Old 02-25-2007, 12:34 AM
AKA_Monet AKA_Monet is offline
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While I do think it is ugly to remove less than desirable members from an organization.

But with what I have seen and how some processes work, some folks ought not be considered for membership for anyone's organizations. Moreover, with last weeks drama with us, folks wonder why not?

We don't know the constitution and bylaws of this organization and why they have a "membership review". Maybe these women have poor GPA's or on AP. Also, there may have been altercations.

There is only so much "charity work" one can do.

But then again, as far as the overweight issue, that may be civil rights violation and a lawsuit waiting to happen, if it is provable.

And I do think that it ultimately hurts the overall sorority's image regardless of the "ruling out procedure". However, they will have to be the ones to clean it up...
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  #20  
Old 02-25-2007, 12:51 AM
ADPiLove ADPiLove is offline
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If some girls should not be considered for membership, then they should be dropped from recruitment the first day, so they won't have to go through the joy of being selected, and then be dropped without any concern for their feelings.

The chapter's president was asked to leave, for heaven's sake. If she was so horrible, how did she even get elected? If our president left, we would be able to survive, but I do not think our VP could do as well.

It doesn't make sense that all the "undesirable" girls had bad grades or altercations. COnsidering that DZ is coming across as the "smart" sorority, there shouldn't be grade problems.

I'm just glad that my sorority is totally diverse, yet would never ever drop people because of their appearance.
  #21  
Old 02-25-2007, 01:29 AM
DZRose DZRose is offline
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Var. replies...long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OTW View Post
I find this hard to believe, especially when this member's account of what happened is totally different from what you described as "membership review".
First of all, Delta Zeta has a very diverse membership. We have chapters on all sorts of campuses, and each chapter reflects the population at that particular school. But let's for a moment say that the criteria they used at DePauw to slelct remaining members was ONLY physical appearance. In this case the standard for membership would not have been decided upon by DZ HQ, but the standards evident by other sororities at DePauw. HQ would have wanted to emulate them somewhat while attempting to maintain the chapter identity as much as it could. As for going gracefully into the record books, why? If you can attempt to salvage a chapter and revive it, then you should take all the available steps to do so. Even the post states that only ONE of the reasons was physical appearance. So even she admits that there were other factors in deciding who would be extended an invitation to reorganize the chapter, but the only one people are talking about is how it was how each of the girls looked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OTW,1403149
Are you talking about the women who got kicked out? If you get kicked out, how is it possible that they didn't want to be in the sorority anymore? Please clarify.
Being offered alumnae status is not being kicked out, although I'm sure it may seem like it is. Membership does not cease with college graduation. In fact, that is when the longest period of membership begins. I am, and always will be, a Delta Zeta, even when I'm 100 years old. So to say that HQ kicked them out is false. They offered them alumnae status, had they accepted, they would still have been Delta Zeta's. They chose not to accept the offer. I interpret that as not wanting to be in the sorority anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OTW,1403149
And I'm sorry...if an HQ chooses to reorganize a chapter, you give alumnae status to all women. You don't pick and choose based on who looks best.
I agree completely, and I don't believe that it was based on who looks best. The only reason I can think of as to why they had to maintain some of the current chapter roster is the administration telling them that by closing the chapter (what would happen if you made everyone an alumna) they would not be guaranteed their place on campus to reorganize. A reorganization would not have been possible if the chapter's place on campus had been granted to another sorority. By doing that, the administration limited HQ's options and forced them to play the hand they were dealt, at that particular time, in the best manner they could.

I agree that the situation just sucks. It is totally lose-lose for everyone. Will it ultimately help the chapter? I doubt it, but you never know. When my chapter reorganized, they made everyone alumnae and then started over completely from scratch. But they had support from panhellenic and the administration and were given the opportunity they needed to create a successful chapter.

The physical presence (both in reputation and appearance) a chapter has on campus, in my experience, is directly related to it's general success and especially during rush. The women we had when we were small, were some outstanding women, but many rushees couldn't see past what their physical appearance was to see what the sisterhood had to offer. So we lost a lot of potential memebers because of it. Reputation can be and often is everthing, and an unwarranted bad reputation can and usually is the death of a chapter.

I think for the most part, other greeks can see what happened and realize it's an isolated incident. The people that trash DZ as a whole are just there to cause a commotion and get a rise out of people. I hadn't seen many DZ's post on this and I just wanted to add my .02. I am saddened by all the events and hope that everyone involved can overcome it.

DZRose
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Last edited by DZRose; 02-25-2007 at 01:39 AM.
  #22  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:02 AM
PeppyGPhiB PeppyGPhiB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DZRose View Post
Being offered alumnae status is not being kicked out, although I'm sure it may seem like it is. Membership does not cease with college graduation. In fact, that is when the longest period of membership begins. I am, and always will be, a Delta Zeta, even when I'm 100 years old. So to say that HQ kicked them out is false. They offered them alumnae status, had they accepted, they would still have been Delta Zeta's. They chose not to accept the offer. I interpret that as not wanting to be in the sorority anymore.
DZRose
Give me a break. We all know sorority membership is for life, but c'mon...much of what I think most of us recall most fondly about our sorority are/were our days as a collegiate member. How would you feel about your sorority experience if you were made an alumna member as a freshman? To be made an alumna very shortly after initiation? To have never been a big sis? To have never been to a spring formal, or senior celebration ceremony? I bet there are some women on this board who can tell us what it's like to have one's collegiate membership stop short, and I bet it's a little sad.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think all these women were really kicked out, were they? They were just told they were being given alumnae status, right? When we all say "kicked out" I think we're meaning it figuratively in this case, not necessarily literally (except they were definitely kicked out of the house).

And, I'm going to be bold and honest here...I AM bashing DZ for the way it's handled this situation. With so many detailed accounts out there by former actives in the chapter, their friends, professors, the university president, etc. saying one thing, and DZ saying no more than its cold, vague statement about "not committed to recruitment," the sorority AT LEAST conducted this "review" with little sensitivity to its sisters. And considering they did this review out of concerns regarding image, you'd think they would have had a PR plan in place for themselves given the difficult and painful situation I'm sure they knew it would be...they seemed to dive in without even considering how DZ's image as an organization would be impacted. Also, if this was about grades, I think they would have said it was about academics.

I'll say what I said before in an older post that I think was deleted...if this was my sorority that had done this, I would have been as equally critical. It's a damn shame.
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:28 AM
DZRose DZRose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB View Post
Give me a break. We all know sorority membership is for life, but c'mon...much of what I think most of us recall most fondly about our sorority are/were our days as a collegiate member. How would you feel about your sorority experience if you were made an alumna member as a freshman? To be made an alumna very shortly after initiation? To have never been a big sis? To have never been to a spring formal, or senior celebration ceremony? I bet there are some women on this board who can tell us what it's like to have one's collegiate membership stop short, and I bet it's a little sad.

And, I'm going to be bold and honest here...I AM bashing DZ for the way it's handled this situation. With so many detailed accounts out there by former actives in the chapter, their friends, professors, the university president, etc. saying one thing, and DZ saying no more than its cold, vague statement about "not committed to recruitment," the sorority AT LEAST conducted this "review" with little sensitivity to its sisters. And considering they did this review out of concerns regarding image, you'd think they would have had a PR plan in place for themselves given the difficult and painful situation I'm sure they knew it would be...they seemed to dive in without even considering how DZ's image as an organization would be impacted. Also, if this was about grades, I think they would have said it was about academics.

I'll say what I said before in an older post that I think was deleted...if this was my sorority that had done this, I would have been as equally critical. It's a damn shame.
I'm not saying it's fair or that I don't think that this is a huge deal. I would be pissed if this happened to me or my daughter. PISSED! I am upset that this is going on and how it makes my soroity look. I am upset that now the administration is crying foul-play when I believe that it is they who put the sorority/chapter in a situation they couldn't win. I think (and I don't know for sure, this is just speculation) that HQ wanted to reorganize and when they were told that if they tried they would basically be off the campus so they had to scramble and do whatever they could to salvage what was there. As for how DZ has handled the situation, do you think they could say anything that would make them look better? No, everyone that has a strong opinion has already decided that they are completely to blame and that they are the bad guys in this whole thing. Even the NYT article is completely slanted in favor of the women who quit. Everyone seems to want to put them on a pedastal...Do I think that part of the blame rests on the members of Delta Chapter? Yeah. They knew that the chapter was in trouble and weren't making and headway on improving their situation. I have been in the exact same situation as them, with a strong, old chapter on the brink. Trust me, you know when things aren't going right. As for DZ not saying anything about why or how they did what they did, I think if DZ HQ released any kind of statement other than what is out there, it would just make matters worse. What I was really trying to accomplish with my posts was to try to point out that there more than the one side to this story, and I don't really think we'll every really know all the details.

Personally, I think everyone screwed up. The chapter, the administration, the sorority, EVERYONE. I think this whole thing has taken on a life of its own, and I have no idea how this can end well for anybody involved.

DZRose
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  #24  
Old 02-25-2007, 03:00 AM
Phimuteach Phimuteach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DZRose View Post
I think (and I don't know for sure, this is just speculation) that HQ wanted to reorganize and when they were told that if they tried they would basically be off the campus so they had to scramble and do whatever they could to salvage what was there. As for how DZ has handled the situation, do you think they could say anything that would make them look better? Everyone seems to want to put them on a pedastal...Do I think that part of the blame rests on the members of Delta Chapter? Yeah. They knew that the chapter was in trouble and weren't making and headway on improving their situation.
DZRose
The key element missing in your argument was the way the women of Delta chapter were treated. These women are SISTERS. They should not be treated like that by HQ, period. I would say the same thing about my sorority and I have in the past, actually. There is no excuse for their actions toward sisters.
I agree with previous posters that a lot of NPC organizations (including my own) get stuck in business mode. Feelings, compassion, and sisterhood are often lost in the mix. This is a crying shame that is a reality.
As for what happened being partially the fault of the chapter, I could see your point if efforts had been made to genuinely help the chapter in the past (I do not know or pretend to know the actions DZ took before they reorganized). I can say from experience that if HQ used strongly worded reprimands ("You MUST get x amount of girls during rush.") and a few hours with a chapter consultant, these are not effective ways of helping a struggling chapter.

Last edited by Phimuteach; 02-25-2007 at 12:40 PM.
  #25  
Old 02-25-2007, 04:48 AM
Xidelt Xidelt is offline
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Shame on the National Board.

Delta Zeta IHQ completely dropped the ball on this one and treated all of the sisters in this chapter like crap. They have egg on their face. How can they fix the situation?
1. Realize they screwed up and put their PR person to work. Apologize to the sisters of the DePauw chapter and the DePauw community at large.
2. Close the chapter completely. So what if they lose their spot on that campus for now? Look to expand elsewhere, at other universities. DePauw has a student body that is the most involved in Greek Life compared to other universities. If Delta Zeta couldn't come back immediately, I'm sure they could in a few years.

Previous posters are right--you can't help the cards you're dealt.

But you can help how you play your cards.
  #26  
Old 02-25-2007, 06:09 AM
PeppyGPhiB PeppyGPhiB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xidelt View Post
Delta Zeta IHQ completely dropped the ball on this one and treated all of the sisters in this chapter like crap. They have egg on their face. How can they fix the situation?
1. Realize they screwed up and put their PR person to work. Apologize to the sisters of the DePauw chapter and the DePauw community at large.
2. Close the chapter completely. So what if they lose their spot on that campus for now? Look to expand elsewhere, at other universities. DePauw has a student body that is the most involved in Greek Life compared to other universities. If Delta Zeta couldn't come back immediately, I'm sure they could in a few years.

Previous posters are right--you can't help the cards you're dealt.

But you can help how you play your cards.
Well said. I might add that when the New York Times comes 'a callin', you SHOULD take the interview (the article said DZ declined to speak with them). They could have at least said something heartfelt about the situation, which would have at least made them seem like compassionate human beings instead of hiding behind their office.
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  #27  
Old 02-25-2007, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB View Post
Well said. I might add that when the New York Times comes 'a callin', you SHOULD take the interview (the article said DZ declined to speak with them). They could have at least said something heartfelt about the situation, which would have at least made them seem like compassionate human beings instead of hiding behind their office.
At least there's some kind of official statement from HQ

Quote:
February 23, 2007
This week, the national organization of Delta Zeta Sorority was contacted and did an email interview with the New York Times.
The reporter informed us that the Times is doing a follow-up story based off of the stories that appeared in the local DePauw University/Greencastle press.
The national leadership of Delta Zeta has at all times and continues to work for the enrichment and betterment of collegiate and alumnae members of the Delta Chapter at DePauw University.
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at 513/523-7597 or cwm@dzshq.com. Or, if you get any queries from reporters, please send them my way.

Sincerely,

Cindy W. Menges
Executive Director
I guess an E-MAIL INTERVIEW is better than nothing. I hope they've hired a better PR person by now.
  #28  
Old 02-25-2007, 06:41 AM
PeppyGPhiB PeppyGPhiB is offline
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Reporters don't like email interviews very much, because they can't react to statements or ask people to ellaborate. I understand why DZ would like the questions via email, but really that's not what PR people usually suggest (or at least that's not what I would recommend for my clients...I'd rather have them on the phone in a conversation, after I've prepped them of course). But like you said, email is at least better than nothing. Too bad they even had to have an official statement.
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  #29  
Old 02-25-2007, 07:35 AM
dvs-dz dvs-dz is offline
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Ai yi yi yi!

I can understand the need to turnaround a struggling chapter, which is evidently what Delta chapter was. Hindsight is 20/20, and we can see all the mistakes the national reps made and suspect the mistakes made by DePauw's panhellenic, administration, and the chapter itself (the struggling situation didn't happen overnight).

Now DZ has a huge PR mess on its hands, and I don't know if they are "up" for it. I can only hope they do a "review" on themselves to figure a way to handle this.
  #30  
Old 02-25-2007, 11:47 AM
ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl is offline
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There have been struggling chapters here, but I can never see them telling members, essentially, that they are just not cute enough to recruit new members. Now, I understand that Greek life at Depauw is entirely different from what it is at my school, but I guess I can't understand it in any situation. The reaction of six of the twelve deemed worthy, as well as the reaction of the campus does not, to me, say that these women were asked to leave for "other factors". "Not dedicated to recruitment" might have meant not willing to starve themselves before it began, or not willing to change who they are to be more like every other Greek on campus.

I wish I understood Greek life at a more competitive school, because that would help me see the situation a little differently, I'm sure. But I don't, and the more I read, the more appalled I got. Trust me, it is no picnic to be told in the middle of the year you're moving, like it or not. And I'm sure it isn't to be told you aren't recruitment worthy and will be an alum or nothing...even if you never got to experience all that collegiate sorority membership has to offer. And I agree with the girls who did leave...saying "well they just chose not to be a part of that sorority anymore" is cold.

If Alpha Gamma Delta HQ came in and did that to my chapter, I don't care which side of the table I fell on, I'd assume that they did not, in fact, support sisterhood in the way they advertise, and no longer believe they adhere to our purpose and what we stand for. And no, I'd no longer be interested in being associated with them. (Which is saying a lot...I'm hardcore into it.) Telling the chapter PRESIDENT she wasn't committed enough to recruitment? Come on. If she wasn't comitted she would have declined the option of being chosen as president.
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