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  #31  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:40 AM
dznat187 dznat187 is offline
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Sorry, I got that statistic from the Lambda 10 project and I remember reading it a few other places as well. If it is not accurate, I'm sorry. I did not read anythign about it being skewed.

I don't understand how homophobia is not a real greek problem? and the fact that you refer to gays as 'rump rangers'.... and as far as leaving diversity to the classroom, that doesn't make too much sense, we are college students and there is alot more to oue education than just classes. the real opportunity for learning and living diversity is in student programs and our everyday lives.

I do agree that there are very important issues to deal with inside the greek community, including alcohol abuse, etc. but I feel that getting this topic out there is going to make a more open environment for everyone. and im not expecting a ton of people to come to events or have everyone be okay with GLBT members (we don't even have to know who is or who isn't gay). Its just about the dialogue, letting the GLBT members know about the services the university has for them and who they can go to, as well as lessen one of the streotypes of greeks. I can't do anything about greeks being thought of as alcoholics, hazers, elitists, or whatever other large scale generalizations people make, but I would like to have at least the students at my school feel that the greeks here are willing to talk about the issue and that many are accepting or at least are not hostile towards them.

I did not jump on this thread to argue statistics. I was hoping to get some ideas for my programs as far as speakers etc. Feel free to pm me if you have ideas, as some have already done.

Thank you.
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  #32  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:56 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by dznat187
Sorry, I got that statistic from the Lambda 10 project and I remember reading it a few other places as well. If it is not accurate, I'm sorry. I did not read anythign about it being skewed.

I did not jump on this thread to argue statistics. I was hoping to get some ideas for my programs as far as speakers etc.

It's not a question of "arguing" statistics, but if you use ones that are untrue you will get shot down very quickly and the whole point of your message will be lost. Just educate yourself and ask questions about something's validity before you try to educate others.
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  #33  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:00 AM
DSTCHAOS DSTCHAOS is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by dznat187
Sorry, I got that statistic from the Lambda 10 project and I remember reading it a few other places as well. If it is not accurate, I'm sorry. I did not read anythign about it being skewed.
Isn't Lambda 10 a gay rights activist and research organization?

The numbers are as skewed as any other data. It's all based on research bias and the sample population they are attempting to generalize from. Some stats are more accurate than others. If my recollection of what Lambda 10 is is accurate, then they an obvious agenda, which can lead to even less objectivity in order to further their purpose.
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Last edited by DSTCHAOS; 12-20-2005 at 11:11 AM.
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  #34  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:04 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
Isn't Lambda 10 a gay rights activist and research organization?

Yes. http://www.lambda10.org/

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  #35  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:16 AM
DeltAlum DeltAlum is offline
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I have also "heard" the 10% number in the past. I have no idea if it is true or skewed.

Lambda 10 is obviously a gay activist organization and does, as obviously, have an agenda.

An agenda does not necessarily mean skewed data, though.

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

It's a little like saying that a given political party always lies.

Well, maybe that's a bad example.
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  #36  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:32 AM
DSTCHAOS DSTCHAOS is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DeltAlum
I have also "heard" the 10% number in the past. I have no idea if it is true or skewed.

Lambda 10 is obviously a gay activist organization and does, as obviously, have an agenda.

An agenda does not necessarily mean skewed data, though.

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

It's a little like saying that a given political party always lies.

Well, maybe that's a bad example.

Social science data is always skewed because of researcher bias. The question is only a matter of HOW skewed and in which direction.

Politicians always lie. Some just lie less than others.

ETA: My use of the term "skewed" can be misleading. The bias in data is not always deliberate but it is inevitable. So, the 10% is undoubtedly filled with bias and whether this bias is deliberate to fill an agenda is not something those of us who aren't on Lambda's 10 research team would know. There isn't much data regarding this so there's nothing to really compare it to to gauge the accuracy.
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Last edited by DSTCHAOS; 12-20-2005 at 11:38 AM.
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  #37  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:42 AM
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MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DeltAlum
I have also "heard" the 10% number in the past. I have no idea if it is true or skewed.
My recollection is that 33girl is right in saying that the 10% figure, at least as often stated in public discourse, originated with the Kinsey Report, which is not accepted as accurate these days given the methodology of data collection. And I think that is where the "10" in "Lambda 10" comes from, although I have no reason to think that Lambda 10 is not a responsible advocacy group.

dznat187, except for one particular poster who, I think it is safe to say, does not represent the views of the typical college student of today, I don't think anyone is saying that homophobia (as much as I think that word is overused and misused) doesn't exist in the Greek world. That one poster should simply be ignored in a discussion like this one.

Concerns by some that programs might not be well-received doesn't necessarily = denial of homophobia. Perhaps it's a bad analogy, but here you go: I know that sexual harassment, gender or sexual orientation discrimination, and the like are problems in many, many offices and I think those things need to disappear from the work place. But I absolutely dread having to sit through a "sensitivity" class on those topics, if for no other reason than they are usually boring, they inevitably come across as preachy and politically correct, and, as far as I can see, they accomplish little except to make the participants resent the time they feel like they have "wasted" while the presenters feel like "good has been done here." Just my take.

As for resources, have you read Out on Fraternity Row: Personal Accounts of Being Gay in a College Fraternity, published by Lambda 10?
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  #38  
Old 12-20-2005, 12:52 PM
Erik P Conard Erik P Conard is offline
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naw...

naw, being polite, you go first....you have such a charming way

of expressing yourself, to the delight of many of us...
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  #39  
Old 12-23-2005, 02:47 PM
kappaloo kappaloo is offline
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Statistics on closeted topics...

Statistics on numbers in the LGBTQ community (I'll use the term "queer" for anyone in these and related communities) are very hard to make accurate. There are obviously many reasons as to why:

The first is obviously fear. I know far too many queer men and women who have been threatened and harmed due to being "out". Some queers choose to tell no one of their sexual identity due to this.

The second is definition. What makes a person queer? It is action? desire? attraction?

There are men who sleep with men who will not id as queer. There are men who sleep with women alone and will id as queer. There are men who sleep with no one will not id as queer even though they are attracted to men. You can do the same for women. (I'm just not going to type all of it out again)

Now, given all of this is it surprising accurate statistics are hard to find?

But the fact of the matter remains: It doesn't matter how many or few people are queer. People are more than their sexual identity and as Greeks it is the PERSON not the sexual identity we should care about and recruit.
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  #40  
Old 12-23-2005, 03:10 PM
DSTCHAOS DSTCHAOS is offline
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Re: Statistics on closeted topics...

Quote:
Originally posted by kappaloo
Now, given all of this is it surprising accurate statistics are hard to find?
No and it is important for agencies like Lambda to provide disclaimers and limitations for their data. Just like other social science research does.

I am not saying that Lambda doesn't provide disclaimers at times but it is so easy for people to take numbers and run with them when there's a political agenda.
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  #41  
Old 12-23-2005, 03:22 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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Re: Statistics on closeted topics...

Quote:
Originally posted by kappaloo
Statistics on numbers in the LGBTQ community (I'll use the term "queer" for anyone in these and related communities) are very hard to make accurate. There are obviously many reasons as to why:

The first is obviously fear. I know far too many queer men and women who have been threatened and harmed due to being "out". Some queers choose to tell no one of their sexual identity due to this.

The second is definition. What makes a person queer? It is action? desire? attraction?

There are men who sleep with men who will not id as queer. There are men who sleep with women alone and will id as queer. There are men who sleep with no one will not id as queer even though they are attracted to men. You can do the same for women. (I'm just not going to type all of it out again)

Now, given all of this is it surprising accurate statistics are hard to find?

But the fact of the matter remains: It doesn't matter how many or few people are queer. People are more than their sexual identity and as Greeks it is the PERSON not the sexual identity we should care about and recruit.
No I think it's pretty easy to define queer. You like dick? You're gay. Simple, huh?

-Rudey
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  #42  
Old 12-23-2005, 04:09 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Swell, Just Swell!

Remember, there will be an Adgenda from any Groups and They Of Course are always Right!

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Last edited by Tom Earp; 12-23-2005 at 04:13 PM.
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  #43  
Old 12-23-2005, 04:41 PM
DSTCHAOS DSTCHAOS is offline
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Earpspeak....
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  #44  
Old 12-23-2005, 06:30 PM
DeltAlum DeltAlum is offline
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Re: Re: Statistics on closeted topics...

Quote:
Originally posted by Rudey
No I think it's pretty easy to define queer. You like dick? You're gay. Simple, huh?
No.

What if you're a woman?
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  #45  
Old 12-23-2005, 06:34 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
Earpspeak....
No, it is not EarpSpeak! It is a form of Trueism!

Why cannot You even Get It?

Never Mind, I am fed up with Your We You cannot get it!
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