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Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.


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  #1  
Old 11-01-2005, 06:12 AM
kddani kddani is offline
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Ummmm.... State College isn't exactly a tiny little town. There are plenty of options, plenty of 3rd party vendors. State College has more options than MANY MANY schools that are located in very small towns or very conservative towns- for example, Westminster. So that reasoning is 100% pure bull. Even if there weren't many options for 3rd party vendors, that's not going to cause any HQ to overlook an NPC rule- rules that would VOID your insurance policies, and subject them to possibly millions of dollars in liability.

Aphidancer03, what gives you the right to speak for the women of another sorority? Do you want them speaking for you? Sounds like a lot of hearsay to me. Maybe you should keep your nose in your own business, don't you think?

PM_Mama, I wouldn't take what she says too seriously, as she's not even a member of Phi Mu and is likely just sh!ttalking.

Actually, instead of your national officers, I would think Alpha Phi's would be much more interested in knowing one of their chapters is "special" and doesn't have to follow the rules. I'm sure it's news to them.

ETA: The third party vendor rule has been around for quite awhile- when was that passed-2000, I think?

And on an interstate rivalry note: Again, another example of someone thinking State College is some magical wonderland.
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Last edited by kddani; 11-01-2005 at 06:30 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-01-2005, 10:38 AM
PSUSigKap PSUSigKap is offline
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The third party rule passed in the fall of 2000 yes, BUT the way the bylaw was written there are a bunch of loop holes that some sororities try to exploit. We had problems with it the whole time I was at Penn State (2000-2004). The rule is there in theory but it is ignored, well at least it was ignored when I was there. The whole third party vendor thing is difficult, because there are only 4 or 5 places willing to rent to us. Those are the typical formal locations, Tussey Lodge, Knights of Colombus, places like that. Bars won't rent out to us. It's too expensive to really do more than one a semester. When you're used to having socials Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights, it's hard to get the women to agree to having not as many socials. The socials are a big part of being Greek at PSU. I'm not saying its right or wrong, that's just the way it is. It's been frustrating ever since the sororities went "dry." It's an evolving system that still hasn't worked itself out almost 6 (school) years later.

I can see where the local girls would be frustrated with the changes they have to make. On the other hand (and more importantly), they CHOSE to affiliate with Phi Mu. If they don't like it, they should leave. I would like to assume they did enough research on the organization both at a local and a national level to make an informed decision to affiliate. In which case they would know the campus climate and would know the panhellenic rules they would be expected to follow and the work they would have to do to make Phi Mu at Penn State the best it can be.

Phi Mu has always had a great sisterhood and in my opinion better than some of the more "desireable" houses. You can see the love for their organization on their faces and their fight to keep themselves at PSU. I really respect the Phi Mu women for all they've done. I'm glad they were able do this and this definately makes things easier to have more women. GO PHI MU!!!!



kddani, but state college is a magical wonderland! You're just jealous because you went to pitt. ha ha ha j/k Penn Staters really do live in a bubble when they're at PSU.
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Last edited by PSUSigKap; 11-01-2005 at 10:40 AM.
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  #3  
Old 11-01-2005, 10:41 AM
kddani kddani is offline
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I miss the real Pitt-Penn State rivalry. Can't someone drug JoePa so we can actually play again in football?

Just curious as to why bars won't rent out to greek organizations? I'm guessing it's due to poor behavior on behalf the the greeks in the past, in which case, you reap what you sow.

I can understand people wanting socials, but there shouldn't be any "agreeing" by the women to less socials. You don't get to "agree" with the rules. I do understand, because I know the mentality of my sisters when the rules changed. We got in trouble for violating them, and the chapter still probably does.

In any event, what I really took issue with is the APhi poster basically saying they don't have to follow the rules.
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Old 11-01-2005, 10:52 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by kddani
Just curious as to why bars won't rent out to greek organizations? I'm guessing it's due to poor behavior on behalf the the greeks in the past, in which case, you reap what you sow.
I would bet it's more economics.

You can rent a bar to (roughly) 200 sorority and fraternity members, 125-150 of whom are probably underage and therefore can't drink anything but pop.

Or you can leave your bar open for the whole rest of the college, the locals, and the out of towners - ALL of whom are 21 and will drink alcohol.

This has been my gripe about 3rd party vendors since that whole thing was started. It's not really an option unless you have so much money that you can pay the bar enough in rent to make up for the money they will lose on you.

And everyone who's said if they don't like it they should leave is right.
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  #5  
Old 11-01-2005, 10:58 AM
PSUSigKap PSUSigKap is offline
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33girl is exactly right. The bars make too much money on any given night to give that up to a couple greek organizations even for a couple hours.

ETA: When I said agreeing, I meant actually voting for or against social policy when it comes up.
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Last edited by PSUSigKap; 11-01-2005 at 11:01 AM.
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  #6  
Old 11-01-2005, 11:03 AM
kddani kddani is offline
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Makes sense to me But my original squabble with her post stands- Penn State isn't unique in that regard, and it's not an excuse to say you're exempt from the rules.

While I understand the purpose of a 3rd party vendor from a legal standpoint, I know it sucks for the chapters. But guess it's easier for me, as i've never been a big drinker, to not really feel sorry about it. If our predecessors hadn't done such stupid things (as well as the continuation of stupid things being done currently), we wouldn't have the need for this.

Any girl who was around before 2000 should be graduated by now, so how can the girls be "used" to having socials Thur-Fri-Sat?

eta in response to your edit: but whether or not to follow social policy isn't something to be voted on... lol, just like you can't vote not to follow anti-discrimination rules. Hope the officers all realize their butts are on the line legally if something happens, because the insurance policy is going to say screw you.
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  #7  
Old 11-01-2005, 11:14 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by kddani
Any girl who was around before 2000 should be graduated by now, so how can the girls be "used" to having socials Thur-Fri-Sat?
I think she's talking about when the policy was originally enacted.
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2005, 11:23 AM
Aphidancer03 Aphidancer03 is offline
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I didn't say we don't have to follow the rules, we do have lots of rules and things continue to get stricker, but the climate is obvi different the other campus' which is what I was trying to illustrate.
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2005, 11:24 AM
kddani kddani is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aphidancer03
I didn't say we don't have to follow the rules, we do have lots of rules and things continue to get stricker, but the climate is obvi different the other campus' which is what I was trying to illustrate.
How is it different from anywhere else?
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Old 11-01-2005, 11:38 AM
PSUSigKap PSUSigKap is offline
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The Th-F-S socials were still going on in full force when I graduated in 2004. I doubt it's changed yet.

Basically the rule is there. Do people follow it? No. Is it a problem? Yes for many many reasons.

And I'm not really sure what Aphidancer is saying. Each Greek system is unique. Anyone on this board knows that. PSU's chapters don't get special treatment from any of their (inter)national organizations. Plenty of chapters have been in trouble for this issue since the sororities went dry.
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  #11  
Old 11-01-2005, 12:27 PM
WVU alpha phi WVU alpha phi is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by PSUSigKap
33girl is exactly right. The bars make too much money on any given night to give that up to a couple greek organizations even for a couple hours.
We have all of our parties at bars because its in our national bylaws that parties MUST be at third party vendors for liability reasons. The parties are always 3 hours long (usually 8-11) and then they open the bar up to the publics.
However, bars don't exactly lose money on us because most everybody in this town has a fake ID and the bouncers are not strict at all.
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  #12  
Old 11-01-2005, 12:32 PM
PSUSigKap PSUSigKap is offline
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That's the thing, the bars in State College won't do that for us. I wish they would, but they don't. It would make everyone's lives so much easier if we could have functions at the bars.

That's not to say they don't support the Greek community. Many of them host THON nights where the nights profits go to our Dance Marathon.
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  #13  
Old 11-01-2005, 12:34 PM
PM_Mama00 PM_Mama00 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aphidancer03
I didn't say we don't have to follow the rules, we do have lots of rules and things continue to get stricker, but the climate is obvi different the other campus' which is what I was trying to illustrate.
Yeah. "obvi" it's different.

NEWSFLASH: Every campus is different. My campus's chapters are too small to rent out a bar, so we do this thing called FOLLOW THE NPC RULES. Dry events, then after the event is over do whatever you want. Is your campus so full of alcoholics that they can't mesh for an hour or so without alcohol? Damn. And guess what? Our campus is so different, that if our nationals (the 3 NPCs on campus) finds out about an abuse of the alcohol policy, guess what happens? Come on I know you can do it. Just guess. OHHH wait you guys are different. THEY GET PUT ON RISK MANAGEMENT PROBATION. And I would guess it's not any different at ANY campuses.

Stop acting like Penn State is the exception. I'm starting to hope that your nationals comes on here and reads what you're writing.
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  #14  
Old 11-01-2005, 01:02 PM
ADqtPiMel ADqtPiMel is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by WVU alpha phi
We have all of our parties at bars because its in our national bylaws that parties MUST be at third party vendors for liability reasons. The parties are always 3 hours long (usually 8-11) and then they open the bar up to the publics.
However, bars don't exactly lose money on us because most everybody in this town has a fake ID and the bouncers are not strict at all.
Um, so your chapter exec doesn't check IDs at all? We always have our parties at bars that open to the public after our party, but our girls know that if they try and use a fake at our party, they'll get caught.
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  #15  
Old 11-01-2005, 01:25 PM
Little E Little E is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by WVU alpha phi
We have all of our parties at bars because its in our national bylaws that parties MUST be at third party vendors for liability reasons. The parties are always 3 hours long (usually 8-11) and then they open the bar up to the publics.
However, bars don't exactly lose money on us because most everybody in this town has a fake ID and the bouncers are not strict at all.
]

If your officers are knowingly allowing underage women into your socials held at bars, even if they have a fake, they are probably assuming some serious levels of liability. At some level are you, as a chapter, not promoting underage drinking?


I have a question. Is it just AST or all NPCs (I assume it is all) that does not allow events where alcohol is the main function of the event?

I just do not understand how chapters are allowed to have chapter events at bars, establishments whose main function is alcoholic beverage service. I'm seriously confused on how this works. Why would you even have a chapter event that every sister could not legally attend? Isn't the idea of a fraternity/sorority social to bond with your sisters and also give everyone in the org a chance to bond/meet people in another org?

(I went to a college where we did not have mixers.)

Last edited by Little E; 11-01-2005 at 01:35 PM.
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