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Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.


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  #1  
Old 02-19-2005, 04:37 PM
exlurker exlurker is offline
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Hazing Found at U. of Michigan: 3 Fraternities, One Sorority

The Detroit Free Press reports that an investigation found that four GLOs at the U. of Michigan hazed:

Delta Sigma Phi (has been closed)
Sigma Nu
Zeta Beta Tau
Alpha Epsilon Phi

For the findings and the consequences (varying levels of fines, social restrictions, "membership review" and so on) see:

http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/...6_20050219.htm

One interesting excerpt that may point again to the real need for alumni/ae and national interest in, and oversight of, chapters -- as well as, frankly, the need to be careful in membership selection:

"In an agreement reached with the school, the fraternities and sorority will retool their pledge processes, give their leadership and members more guidance, look at removing some members and strengthen ties to national organizations.The school attributed some of the hazing to poor chapter leadership and weak ties to alumni."

Last edited by exlurker; 02-19-2005 at 04:42 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2005, 05:45 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Thumbs down

GAG, Learn or be closed!!!

Da, when do Those In Leadership at Local Learn!
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  #3  
Old 02-21-2005, 07:54 AM
mmcat mmcat is offline
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ditto to you tom.
with all that's going on nationally, when will they get it?
and at michigan...good lord.
my big ten loyalty is stretched.
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  #4  
Old 02-21-2005, 02:47 PM
LXAAlum LXAAlum is offline
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Closing isn't enough...

Sorry, folks, but just closing a chapter isn't getting the message across anymore.

Why? How many students die each year? Does it ever change?

No.

Until a new solution is found, this is at best a band aid solution to a systemic problem. A band aid to treat cancer.

Something more definitive, that sends a message, has to happen. What, I'm not exactly sure: making hazing a felony, and have DA's more aggressive in prosecuting might be one way.

However, to get at the systemic root, I still don't think that is enough.

How about this idea: When hazing occurs at a campus, obviously the offending chapter has to go, prosecutions need to occur, but, I would also propose the entire greek community at that campus "feel the pain" so to speak. Put all chapters on probation, or other sanctions. Send a message. Get the community to start policing itself, or we will see outside solutions destroy the system entirely.

Ultimately, we have no one but ourselves to blame, and, the solution must come from us to be effective.

Jumping off the soapbox...let the dialogue begin....
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  #5  
Old 02-21-2005, 04:55 PM
DeltAlum DeltAlum is offline
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Re: Closing isn't enough...

Quote:
Originally posted by LXAAlum
but, I would also propose the entire greek community at that campus "feel the pain" so to speak. Put all chapters on probation, or other sanctions. Send a message. Get the community to start policing itself, or we will see outside solutions destroy the system entirely.
Wow. That's pretty hard core.

But it may be the only thing that works. Nothing else seems to.

I've thought a lot about "peer pressure" in terms of drinking...this is sort of the ultimate kind of peer pressure for chapters. Everyone polices the system and abides by the rules, or all go down together.

Hard core.
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The above is the opinion of the poster which may or may not be based in known facts and does not necessarily reflect the views of Delta Tau Delta or Greek Chat -- but it might.
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  #6  
Old 02-21-2005, 05:16 PM
PsychTau2 PsychTau2 is offline
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Re: Closing isn't enough...

Quote:
Originally posted by LXAAlum
How about this idea: When hazing occurs at a campus, obviously the offending chapter has to go, prosecutions need to occur, but, I would also propose the entire greek community at that campus "feel the pain" so to speak. Put all chapters on probation, or other sanctions. Send a message. Get the community to start policing itself, or we will see outside solutions destroy the system entirely.
Hard core? Yes. Effective? Quite probably.

Let's face it...99% of the time when a chapter gets caught hazing, all the other greeks on campus knew they were doing it (to some degree). After the fact, they say things like "Yea...I knew they were doing some crazy stuff..." Heck, I even heard one of my students say today "You know it still happens." Well, if you know it still happens, DO SOMETHING!! Hazing is a slippery slope...while I hate to be Attilla the Hun and police every single thing my greeks do, there are a few things I will NOT tolerate. One of them is knowing that another group is doing something wrong and not holding that group accountable for their actions. It winds up getting bigger and bigger, and damages the whole community.
(Notice I didn't say "tattle" on your fellow greeks...)

/soapbox.

PsychTau
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  #7  
Old 02-21-2005, 05:43 PM
TSteven TSteven is offline
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I understand the concept of wanting to police the system internally. Yet, why should a chapter that is doing everything by the book - is in good standing, has never been in trouble, has a great brotherhood, makes grades etc. *and* has no knowledge of what other chapters are doing behind closed doors - be held accountable (probation/sanctions) for the actions of the other chapter. Heck, it may be as few as one or two individuals of that other chapter that is at fault and the rest of the particular chapter may not be aware of it. Just does not seem right.
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  #8  
Old 02-21-2005, 05:53 PM
aephi alum aephi alum is offline
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Re: Closing isn't enough...

Quote:
Originally posted by LXAAlum
...but, I would also propose the entire greek community at that campus "feel the pain" so to speak.
I'm not sure I totally agree with you.

Something should happen to the entire greek community. Even if XYZ don't themselves haze their new members, some of their members must have seen what was going on with members of these four orgs. But putting everyone on probation because a handful of orgs hazed their new members seems a little over the top.

Maybe the right approach is to require the members of these four chapters to put together an anti-hazing program open to the entire student community, then require that a certain percentage of every chapter on campus attend the program. Require 100% attendance from the four chapters in question. This would be in addition to the punishments meted out by the chapters' nationals. Then again, how would you ensure compliance from members of the chapter that has been closed...

I'm saddened that the sorority in question is my own. We have a very strong anti-hazing policy on the national level, and I know my chapter sisters wouldn't even dream of hazing... and I'm saddened to think that some of my sisters allegedly do haze.
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  #9  
Old 02-21-2005, 05:53 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Lightbulb

I agree with TSteven and LXAAlum and DeltAlum in certain regards but not all!

This happened at Alfred in NY. A Local screwed up and The College Kicked All Greeks off Campus.

So, where did that get us as GLOs?

Is making an example of all Greeks because of a few in a GLO or what a GLO condoned the answer. I wish I had That Answer.

Imentioned once about Kicking a GLO off Campus for any infraction, I got reamed big time. I still stand by that as a fact. If it is flagrent, then do it with no remorse. Do it enough times, maybe the rest will beging to understand along with Nationals about policing along with Alums to make sure that The Chapters are running properly!

I will tell you, if this happened at My Chapter, there would be a road trip to it By Alot of Alums who have been working with them.

No need for School or HQ to handle it!

War is Hell, Alums can be much worse! Ground Zero in any War would look like a Birthday Party!
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Last edited by Tom Earp; 02-21-2005 at 05:56 PM.
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2005, 10:56 PM
PsychTau2 PsychTau2 is offline
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Re: Re: Closing isn't enough...

Quote:
Originally posted by aephi alum
Maybe the right approach is to require the members of these four chapters to put together an anti-hazing program open to the entire student community, then require that a certain percentage of every chapter on campus attend the program.
That's along the lines of what I was thinking. Unless there was widespread issues among the whole system, I wouldn't put everyone on probation. But I think I would require them to attend some sort of seminar/do something extra to get the point across. Kinda like the "where one goes, all goes" approach.

I am all about using educational opportunities (or community service) as consequences for behaviors. Along with the good old fashioned "loss of privileges." (alcohol privileges, etc.) I figure that if other chapters on campus get sick of having their time taken up by seminars, etc. they will exert some positive peer pressure to keep the hazing (or whatever is going on) from happening.

PsychTau
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  #11  
Old 02-21-2005, 11:23 PM
pinkyphimu pinkyphimu is offline
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don't most schools already have a hazing "workshop?"

while, my first instinct is to agree with lxaalum, i am hesitant. i do think the whole greek system should be held accountable, but i see that if a chapter was caught hazing, the university could easily "punish" everyone by kicking them all off campus.

one of the lifeguards i supervised this summer, is in a fraternity. he and i had a long chat about hazing. he said that everyone on his campus hazes, but it is very quiet because the university has a zero tolerance policy. i asked him why someone would go through all of this "stuff" and his response was "because it is fun." how do you deal with that?
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  #12  
Old 02-22-2005, 12:04 AM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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Let's put this in perspective. The U of Mich has 25 IFC fraternities and 15 NPC sororities. Eight were investigated for hazing (six fraternities and two sororities) and half of those were found in violation. The other 4 that were investigated were cleared. The investigation lasted six months and involved interviews with over 150 members. I think the whole thing made quite an impact on the Greek system as a whole. The groups who do not haze are already being punished by the actions of those 4 groups as interest in greek life is significantly down on this campus. They are embarrassed to wear letters on campus. They have lost a lot of respect as a group. While I am all for firm and decisive actions when a chapter is found to have been hazing, I don't agree that all the others should also be punished. The fact that these incidents came to light to officials shows that they policed themselves pretty effectively. The four groups who were investigated and cleared of any wrong doing probably have it the worst right now. Everybody will only remember that the chapters were under investigation, not what the outcome was. To severely restrict groups that are doing what they should and living up to the ideals of their organizations leaves them no incentive to continue to do the right thing. Let the punishment fit the crime and if there is no crime, then there should be no punishment.

Dee
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  #13  
Old 02-22-2005, 11:11 AM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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Make everyone feel the pain???

How panhellenic.

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  #14  
Old 02-22-2005, 01:31 PM
LXAAlum LXAAlum is offline
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Re: Re: Closing isn't enough...

Quote:
Originally posted by aephi alum
Maybe the right approach is to require the members of these four chapters to put together an anti-hazing program open to the entire student community, then require that a certain percentage of every chapter on campus attend the program. Require 100% attendance from the four chapters in question. This would be in addition to the punishments meted out by the chapters' nationals. Then again, how would you ensure compliance from members of the chapter that has been closed...
I know years back, Colorado State put on risk-management seminars about the dangers of drinking...as far as I know, this was an ongoing program. Samantha Spady still died, even with this in place. CU had some sort of risk management seminar required for all potential new members - but the Chi Psi pledge drank himself to death before the seminar was held. The current system does not work.

That's why I'm saying something more drastic has to occur - whatever it is - it has to come from the Greeks themselves to be effective, and, they have to be willing to implement something that is systemic (required for ALL chapters to participate in to remain in good standing), as well as contain harsh penalties.

It's the only way (not necessarily my idea, but AN idea from the greeks as outlined in the paragraph above) to be effective. Something that comes from outside the greek community will be resisted just on the basis it's an "outside" program being forced on the greeks.

Greeks have pulled through crises together before (how many times in the 1960's did the experts say greeks were going to die off?)...and it can be done again.

As I've said all along, greeks need to return to our roots (as in the ideals put forth in our Rituals) - we aren't living what the rituals teach - instead, we are living what we've been brainwashed to believe what we should be: the Animal House, anything-goes, we're young and deserve to be wild, it-can't-happen-to-us mentality that is utlimately going to be fatal. That is what seems to be true for a majority of greek systems - true there are exceptions, and they should be held in high esteem, NOT in the "milk-and-cookie" boys that they sometimes are regarded as being.
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  #15  
Old 02-22-2005, 02:27 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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If hazing is a huge problem across the board at a certain university, I like LXA's idea. What about a moratorium on new members until people clean up their acts?
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