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  #46  
Old 10-02-2003, 10:14 AM
xo_kathy xo_kathy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by PnguinTrax
Usually cuts made after the first round are usually based on GPA and recs. This does vary from chapter to chapter, though.
Sure, that's what we always did. But from the posts about what was going on at Michigan, they were saying that the bogger houses had to cut over 50% after Round 1 - that's probably more than grades and recs. Ugh, I can't even imagine how late they were up that night!!!
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  #47  
Old 10-02-2003, 12:42 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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Release figures work, in that they don't lead women on to believe they have a shot at a chapter, when in actuality they don't. BUT, what designergal said was that chapters had to eliminate to 300 from 750 after first rounds. That means that their return rates are VERY high after round one, and that is standard practice with release figures. It surprises me that a large panhellenic such as UM would not use these, but smaller universities use them and have used them for the past however many years!
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  #48  
Old 10-02-2003, 01:31 PM
aephi alum aephi alum is offline
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But the release figures don't seem to add up...

We have 15 sororities and 750 PNMs. That means quota would be 50 if everyone made it to pref. Round 2 consists of 10 events.

The release figure formula is:
Quota x number of events divided by %return = number to invite.

This can also be stated as:
%return = quota x number of events / number to invite.

So, using these numbers to calculate % return, we get:
% return = 50 x 10 / 300 = 167%.

So unless they're really expecting 2/5 of PNMs to drop (yielding a quota of 30 and a return rate of 100% - which is still pretty darn high), or PNMs are cloning themselves, it seems to me that the sororities should not be obligated to cut so heavily at the start of rush.

Are my numbers off? Or can I just not do basic math?
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  #49  
Old 10-02-2003, 02:35 PM
adpiucf adpiucf is offline
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My experience

When I went through recruitment, we had 7 sororities on my campus. For the first two days of recruitment, you went to all 7, and after that second day there was mutual cutting. I liked that opportunity to have two days in all of the houses-- it gave you more of a chance to meet more people.

My chapter never participated in an informal recruitment event, and I didn't really even know what that was until I became an adviser for another chapter. I am all in favor of informal! At my university, the fraternity recruitment consisted of a kick-off orientation event, and then you could hang out at any house/s you wanted to go to. They'd either offer you a bid at some point or give you the hint to try another chapter. Once a guy got a bid, he hung out at the tent and helped recruit. I like some aspects of that idea, too.

Informal recruitment is just less stressful and is more flexible. However, I have worked with chapters whose Greek Adviser is not in tune with the best interests of those universities, and no one is at total (or even close) and the quotas each fall don't help the chapters in getting to total. So they have to have informal recruitment all year. It is a strain to get initated women to come out for the events, and a strain to find PNMs-- at an academically challenging campus, there are classes and test and graduate schools/internship preparation and part time jobs, in addition to trying to hold it together with extracurriculars. Having the manpower to hold a COR event and getting PNM's there can be very draining, especially when so much effort is put forth and only 4 PNMs show up!

Just my 2 cents. Everyone has some great perspectives to share on this thread. It is wonderful to hear so many personal experiences and everyone's great ideas!
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  #50  
Old 10-02-2003, 06:17 PM
aephi alum aephi alum is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by IvySpice
Could the problem be that you are using 300 as the denominator rather than 450? I thought that the chapters were CUTTING 300 of the women on the first night, and the denominator ought to be the number of women who are NOT cut (# of invites).
Hmm. I was under the impression that they could only invite 300 women back to round 2. Although, even with 450 invitations, you still come up with a 111% return rate.

Though, I think someone said quota was around 40? That and the 450 invitations gives an 89% return rate, which is reasonable for very in-demand sororities.

Still, that's some pretty harsh cutting.
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  #51  
Old 10-02-2003, 07:03 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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Some won't agree with the system no matter what, BUT...

1. This was a pilot of a new idea for figuring release figures sent down by NPC for this campus because...

2. In 2002, these were some of the figures:
735 women registered for FR
672 returned to second sets
632 returned to third sets
605 returned to Pref
566 signed bids
33 did not match
15 quota additions
11 chapters reached quota.
some chapters had an excess of PNMs at Pref
large discrepancy in number of PNMs returning to each chapter
PNMs had unrealistic expectations
25% of PNMs did not pledge
25% of chapters did not make quota
6% of PNMs did not match

3. Release figures were determined by weighting return rates for each set over the last 3 years. Looking at percentage of bid list used to make quota and number of PNMs that preference a chapter as #1 choice. The Green Book method looks only at return rates to Preference and doesn't take bid list performance into account.

4. The Pilot program was supposed to insure that invitations to preference are more reflective of how many PNMs are really needed to achieve quota. Goals were to increase the percentage of PNMs that match with their choice, decrease quota additions, increase the number of chapters that obtain quota through FR, increase the size of new member classes for the groups that don't usually attain quota thereby reducing the amount of COB that groups have to do. They wanted to make sure that PNMs were not unfairly encouraged, make sure fewer PNMs remain unmatched at the end of FR, allow chapters to focus on guests they are truly interested in and improve return rates making for a stronger U of M Greek Community.

I do not have the final figures to compare to this year. Since this was a Pilot, I'm sure there will be evaluations of whether it really worked or not. I know for sure that at the campus where I was a collegian, something like this would be useful. They use no release figures at all and some chapters invited 3 and 4 times quota back their prefs leaving several women unmatched.

If you think of it this way, it may make more sense... You are a PNM and you have two houses you absolutely LOVE and two that you like a lot and think you could be happy in any of them. The two that you LOVE invite you to pref even though you'd be at the bottom of their second list. The two that you like a lot invite you also and you're at the top of their lists so you'd definitely get in if you went to their pref. Of course, you have no way of knowing this, you only know that you got invited to your top two so you go to those prefs. Chances are, you won't get a bid. The top two chapters pretty much knew you weren't going to get a bid but invited a lot of women for "insurance". That just isn't fair to the PNM or to the other chapters.

When I went to college there were only 4 NPC groups and each group had a very distinct personality so chances were good that you'd really only like 1 or 2 chapters at all. But this campus has 15 chapters with an average of 80 women each BEFORE recruitment. It seems to me that with choices like that, there must be several that are similar to each other that you'd have many where you could be happy. Also, since the U of Mich is a very diverse campus, you'd probably find a group within any chapter with whom you would click and have fun. With so many options, it doesn't seem right that so many would drop out/be cut or not match.

Dee
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  #52  
Old 10-02-2003, 08:10 PM
Aphigal Aphigal is offline
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Dee that was an excellant way of explaining the release figure pilot program!!

I personally have seen it implimented at a few other test campuses. So far all test campuses have yeilded outstanding results in all areas, leading to happier chapters and happier pnm's.
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  #53  
Old 10-02-2003, 09:17 PM
sugar and spice sugar and spice is offline
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I would also like to add that, when taking release figures into account at Big 10 schools, a LOT of girls do end up dropping. Like the South, there are a lot of schools with strong Greek systems and lots of chapters -- so rush can take up tons of your time -- but unlike the South, going Greek isn't so prevalent or ingrained from a younger age, so a lot of girls who are going through rush just do it to see what it's like. In the middle of rush, a lot of them realize that it's not for them or that it's just taking up too much time.

For example, this year, we had 450 PNMs sign up for rush and around 300 finished -- and that's pretty good. Usually 600-700 will sign up and around 400 are actually placed. At the University of Minnesota, I think around 250-300 signed up this year, and 100 dropped after the first round. I know high numbers of dropouts are normal at Illinois, and I wouldn't be surprised if Michigan was the same way.
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  #54  
Old 10-02-2003, 09:52 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aphigal
Dee that was an excellant way of explaining the release figure pilot program!!

I personally have seen it implimented at a few other test campuses. So far all test campuses have yeilded outstanding results in all areas, leading to happier chapters and happier pnm's.
I can't take all the credit.. I happened to receive a detailed explanation of how things were changing and pretty much plagiarized it!

As for women dropping from Recruitment.. at all the chapters that I'm familiar with, a large number of women dropped after "finance" night.. when they received the financial info. I do think the economy is hurting the numbers this year.

Dee
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  #55  
Old 10-03-2003, 11:17 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by AGDee
As for women dropping from Recruitment.. at all the chapters that I'm familiar with, a large number of women dropped after "finance" night.. when they received the financial info. I do think the economy is hurting the numbers this year.

Dee
Oh, that bites the big one....on the other hand, it's better for them to know before they end up pledging, initiating and then having to terminate for nonpayment of dues.
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  #56  
Old 10-03-2003, 05:43 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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I still maintain that the early-release system is hurting big Southern rushes like UGA's because the shock of being cut early and heavily is resulting in a lot of quality pNMs dropping out. I mean, they're 18 or so--how much simultaneous rejection can a girl take?
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  #57  
Old 10-03-2003, 10:48 PM
FuzzieAlum FuzzieAlum is offline
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Wait - at Michigan you only go to two pref parties?

This doesn't make sense to me. At my school, with only five chapters, you went to three prefs. If Michigan has three times as many chapters ... well, I don't really expect girls to go to 9 prefs. But really, why isn't rush a round or two longer in bigger systems? Or why don't they at least have three prefs?
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  #58  
Old 10-03-2003, 11:14 PM
UMgirl
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Quote:
Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
Wait - at Michigan you only go to two pref parties?

This doesn't make sense to me. At my school, with only five chapters, you went to three prefs. If Michigan has three times as many chapters ... well, I don't really expect girls to go to 9 prefs. But really, why isn't rush a round or two longer in bigger systems? Or why don't they at least have three prefs?
At Michigan the most you can attend is 3 Pref parties. Unless they've changed that too in the past 2 years, but I doubt it.
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  #59  
Old 01-28-2015, 01:05 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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So here's something for Way Back Wednesday - RFM pilot program at U Michigan. (Just randomly found this, I was bored.)
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  #60  
Old 01-28-2015, 02:09 PM
chi-o_cat chi-o_cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
So here's something for Way Back Wednesday - RFM pilot program at U Michigan. (Just randomly found this, I was bored.)
Is Way Back Wednesday really a thing? I'm just wondering because today on another forum I'm on (completely different topic), someone started a "Bump Your First Thread Ever" thread, so there are all these old threads with new posts.
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