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  #46  
Old 09-02-2003, 12:44 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DeltAlum
In the end, the comments of the administrators, some of whom are obviously Greek alumni, ring important to me. That is that we need to return more to the reasons for our founding and the things taught in our Rituals. Those things are important to the survival of the system.
I agree completely, and I was glad to see that said so many times. (At least in the parts that I saw. I only got to see bits and pieces, but I taped the whole thing to watch later.) I was really glad to see a recurring emphasis on return to founding values (especially since that is a major theme in my own fraternity these days), the important and meaningful themes of our rituals, and teaching about/preparing for life, not just having a good time together.

I agree with what most others have said -- overall (at least from what I saw) it was very balanced. I could see someone watching it and saying "maybe I'll check this stuff out."

Question: Is the Phi Delt pledging ceremony open? I know that the pledging ceremonies of some fraternities (like Lambda Chi) are, but I was still a little surprised they showed part of it.

As for "Why the title?" A good hook to get people to watch.

(And Li'l Hannah -- be sure and check the History channel or local listings to make sure you have the right times and time zones. Kevlar's look like Central Time.)
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  #47  
Old 09-02-2003, 02:04 PM
AlphaSigOU AlphaSigOU is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZTAngel
My perception had been that if you are in a secret society, you aren't supposed to admit that you're in one. You're involvement in it is just as big of a secret as the ritual. I guess I always thought that after watching 'The Skulls'. But, I have heard so many references to the Bush family being part of Skull and Bones. Did they freely admit to their involvement or is their involvement just assumed by the public?
Officially, members of Skull and Bones, or 'Bonesmen' (and women) do not acknowledge the fact that they belong to that organization. Traditionally, Bonesmen are supposed to leave the room whenever the name of the society is mentioned. Only 12 are 'tapped' into Skull and Bones each year from the senior class; no one knows who gets selected until a ceremony called 'Tap Day' in the spring of the junior year.

The extreme secrecy surrounding the organization and the limited number of members selected make it a very elite organization on the Yale campus, and it's not surprising that it attracts many movers and shakers in politics and government, especially if the father is a Bonesman as well.

Skull and Bones is a legacy of the old Yale literary society system of the mid 1800s. My fraternity, Alpha Sigma Phi, was originally founded in 1845 as a sophomore literary society along with its rival Kappa Sigma Theta (now defunct). When they became juniors they either joined Delta Kappa Epsilon or Psi Upsilon (at the time they were class societies at Yale) and were later selected to Skull and Bones and other senior class societies; it was not unusual for one to belong to four different fraternities in four years.
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  #48  
Old 09-02-2003, 02:44 PM
lonnboe lonnboe is offline
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My only problem with the program was the Lady Historian / Author who was saying that fraternities in the 19th century were formed for gambling and other less than admirable ideals. I didn't think this was very accurate in most instances and wonder what she was basing this theory on. She must be a GDI with regrets.
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  #49  
Old 09-02-2003, 02:46 PM
AlphaSigOU AlphaSigOU is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lonnboe
My only problem with the program was the Lady Historian / Author who was saying that fraternities in the 19th century were formed for gambling and other less than admirable ideals. I didn't think this was very accurate in most instances and wonder what she was basing this theory on. She must be a GDI with regrets.
Quite true about that, though there were a few whose sole existence for being was a place were they would be freed from the crushing yoke of faculty regulation.
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  #50  
Old 09-02-2003, 03:13 PM
lonnboe lonnboe is offline
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Quite true about that, though there were a few whose sole existence for being was a place were they would be freed from the crushing yoke of faculty regulation.

Very true. They did do a good job of explaining that, but at no help to the fraternity cause. If I were a person wachting and had little prior knowledge about fraternities, I would also question the "returning to core values" statement that president of NIC made. What are we returning to? I know our core values and assume those of other fraternities are of good intentions, but what about the general public?
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  #51  
Old 09-02-2003, 03:31 PM
absolutuscchick absolutuscchick is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 33girl
OMG, they just showed Matthew McConaghey on his composite from 1990 and he looks sooooooo adorable!!!
Matthew McConaghey is always HOT!!!!
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  #52  
Old 09-02-2003, 03:32 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lonnboe
If I were a person wachting and had little prior knowledge about fraternities, I would also question the "returning to core values" statement that president of NIC made. What are we returning to? I know our core values and assume those of other fraternities are of good intentions, but what about the general public?
I thought that this came through contextually, but perhaps that was just me. Two or three of the administrator types talked about returning to core or founding values, and they tended to be the same people who talked about the seriousness of ritual and the values taught there. At least one even elaborated, talking about scholarship and making better men.

What I would have liked to have seen was a concrete example, like the Phi Delta Theta pledge or president (or alum) talking about the values or principles of Phi Delta Theta. You know, "Phi Delta Theta stands for ...," or "The foundational principles of Phi Delta Theta are ...," or "Phi Delta Theta taught me ...." Surely they have a way to talk about this without breaching secrecy.

Speaking of secrecy, did anybody else catch that, early on when the narrator was giving some general info on fraternities, right as he said "They all have secret mottos," the Delta Upsilon coat-of-arms appeared on the screen? LOL.
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Last edited by MysticCat; 09-02-2003 at 04:11 PM.
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  #53  
Old 09-02-2003, 03:38 PM
AlphaSigOU AlphaSigOU is offline
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I'm glad to see that Brother Drew Thawley (Alpha Sigma Phi's vice-president) got to ber interviewed for the show as well..
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  #54  
Old 09-02-2003, 03:45 PM
OleMissGlitter OleMissGlitter is offline
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I attended Ole Miss from 1996-2000 and I am currently employed on campus in Alumni Affairs and I am the chapter adviser for AOII here. I want to say that "Frat Boys" was well made. I thought it portrayed Ole Miss Fraternity Recruitment in an accurate light. I would like to see the History Channel do one on sorority recruitment. However, I was approached by ABC about doing that and our Internationals, along with Panhellenic at Ole Miss, have told us no to any TV shows or media. I would think that something with the History Channel would be more favorable and would not draw any "bad" perceptions out about our competive recruitment here. Anyway, I enjoyed it and the buzz around here is that it was fair and very accurate. And Curran Foose is still an active in Phi Delta Theta at Ole Miss. He is a sophomore this fall.

http://www.thedmonline.com/vnews/dis.../3f54377f8edeb

Daily Mississippian Article about "Frat Boys."
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  #55  
Old 09-02-2003, 03:46 PM
AlphaSigOU AlphaSigOU is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MysticCat81
What I would have liked to have seen was a concrete example, like the Phi Delta Theta pledge or president (or alum) talking about the values or principles of Phi Delta Theta. You know, "Phi Delta Theta stands for ...," or "The foundational principles of Phi Delta Theta are ...," or "Phi Delta Theta taught me ...." Surely they have a way to talk about this without breaching secrecy.
Something that needs to be definitely addressed in pledge (ahem... new member) education programs. I was taught as a young Entered Apprentice Mason on what is considered secret and what can be safely told to non-members:

"If it's written in the monitor of ceremonies, it can be told."

What is considered secret: the modes of recognitions (signs, tokens, grips etc.), the internal business of the chapter (business meetings, personal details of members living in the house.
Few don't take the time to really get the meaning of what (XYZ) fraternity means to him.
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  #56  
Old 09-02-2003, 03:49 PM
lonnboe lonnboe is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MysticCat81
I thought that this came through contextually, but perhaps that was just me. Two or three of the administrator types talked about returning to core or founding values, and they tended to be the same people who talked about the seriousness of ritual and the values taught there. At least one even elaborated, talking about scholarship and making better men.

What I would have liked to have seen was a concrete example, like the Phi Delta Theta pledge or president (or alum) talking about the values or principles of Phi Delta Theta. You know, "Phi Delta Theta stands for ...," or "The foundational principles of Phi Delta Theta are ...," or "Phi Delta Theta taught me ...." Surely they have a way to talk about this without breaching secrecy.

Speaking of secrecy, did anybody else catch that, early on when the narrator was giving some general info on fraternities, right as he said "They all have secret mottos," the Delta Upsilon coat-of-arms appeared on the screen. LOL.
I supprised there wasn't a more negative approach. This was the only part that did get my attention as being slightly inacurate.

I though it did portray the fraternity's history well and fairly. It could have been a lot worse on something like DateLine or 60 Minutes. The History Channel really proved it's research and reporting to me with this episode.

Last edited by lonnboe; 09-02-2003 at 03:54 PM.
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  #57  
Old 09-02-2003, 04:31 PM
emb021 emb021 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MysticCat81
I thought that this came through contextually, but perhaps that was just me. Two or three of the administrator types talked about returning to core or founding values, and they tended to be the same people who talked about the seriousness of ritual and the values taught there. At least one even elaborated, talking about scholarship and making better men.

What I would have liked to have seen was a concrete example, like the Phi Delta Theta pledge or president (or alum) talking about the values or principles of Phi Delta Theta. You know, "Phi Delta Theta stands for ...," or "The foundational principles of Phi Delta Theta are ...," or "Phi Delta Theta taught me ...." Surely they have a way to talk about this without breaching secrecy.

Well, there was a segement where they asked various Brothers what the fundamental principles of their fraternity were. Except for one (who quickly told it), the others couldn't remember. I thought that was sad.
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  #58  
Old 09-02-2003, 04:33 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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Originally posted by emb021
Well, there was a segement where they asked various Brothers what the fundamental principles of their fraternity were. Except for one (who quickly told it), the others couldn't remember. I thought that was sad.
Sad indeed. I must have missed that part -- I haven't had a chance to watch more than bits and pieces yet.
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  #59  
Old 09-02-2003, 05:00 PM
xo_kathy xo_kathy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlphaSigOU
Officially, members of Skull and Bones, or 'Bonesmen' (and women) do not acknowledge the fact that they belong to that organization. Traditionally, Bonesmen are supposed to leave the room whenever the name of the society is mentioned.
So, you're hanging with your friends in New Haven and somebody says, "I wonder if the Bonesman had Tap Day yet?" And Timmy stands up and makes a lame excuse about needing to call his sister?!? Wouldn't it be obvious that you WERE in the society if you did leave the room every time someone mentioned it?
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  #60  
Old 09-02-2003, 05:09 PM
emb021 emb021 is offline
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Originally posted by xo_kathy
So, you're hanging with your friends in New Haven and somebody says, "I wonder if the Bonesman had Tap Day yet?" And Timmy stands up and makes a lame excuse about needing to call his sister?!? Wouldn't it be obvious that you WERE in the society if you did leave the room every time someone mentioned it?
what's this??? Using LOGIC where Secret Societies (& other conspiricies) are concerned??? Tsk tsk.

Personally I thought the whole segment on collegiate secret societies was silly. Sort of like a factual show on Masons going off on a tangent about the Illuminati or the like. Some of the people on the show seems to have a bug up their arse about fraternities perpetuating elitism and the like, and it seemed to be the attitude that 'if you thought fraternities were scarying, check out these secret societies!!! they're worse!!! Wooooo!!'. Sigh.

The lady they were showing talking about the Skull & Bones and who wrote a book about them. Was reading comments about the book on amazon.com. What they failed to mention on the show (I believe) was that she's a Yale graduate AND a member of another secret society at Yale.
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