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  #16  
Old 06-20-2000, 09:16 PM
Sweet Deliverance Sweet Deliverance is offline
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Well...joining a sorority is contingent on the qualifications an aspirant possess at the time of application.

I agree with some of the points all of you have made, but I lean toward what Eclipse said. My Sorors may even see things differently, but here goes. Number one, I can't deny my Christian beliefs... Number two, belonging to a Sorority who has as one of it's founding principles, Finer Womanhood, a woman's reputation and how she carries herself does come under consideration.

Should a woman with children be bared from membership in my eyes? It depends on the individual and the circumstances (career, finances, support system, educational commitments or goals, etc.). I have initiated women with children - single, and at that time the child was not an issue.

To answer your question, it is not a problem unless it jeopardizes your child's health and happiness, your sanity and happiness, and you find it to be one.

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Sweet Deliverance's PHI-losophy:
"What you do or do not do today determines what you can or cannot do tomorrow."
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  #17  
Old 06-20-2000, 09:27 PM
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I was just curious as to when Eclipse became God. How dare you judge any of the ladies who have kids and are on line...or Anyone for that matter. I would personally have a lot of respect for any woman who manages, not only,to meet the requirements of the intake process (the gpa, community service, etc.), but are still able to fulfill the vigorous requirements of being a mom. The term "Superwoman" immediately pops in my mind! And as far as your self-righteous comments regarding babis out of wedlock,no husband,setting a bad example for youngerladies (yadda,yadda,yadda)...I feel it's sad that this is the way you choose to see the situation. What about the single teen parent out there? (and whether we like it or not, they are out there)I would think they would benefit more from a positive black sister that could show them how despite being a single mother they can achieve anything in life. Whether that be graduating from college or joining a sorority. The last thing they would need is for someone, as yourself, to reinforce the notion that they are an unacceptable entity in our society that should be banned from joining sororities or any other activity that should only be open to the perfect women of the world (such as yourself). Give me a break! AND...as for the young ladies who don't have kids, I'm sure seeing an unmarried member of a sorority with child is not going to make an other wised intelligent, responsible person to take it as "the green light" to go out and get pregnant. Granted, God may frown upon someone getting pregnant without first being married but He also warns against us passing judgement on others. I don't remember the name of the woman who posted the original question, but I send nothing but encouragement to you. Any negative vibes you may get from some of these replies have nothing to do with you and EVERYTHING to do with the person from which they came. To Eclipse, try seeing the glass as half full for a change.
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  #18  
Old 06-20-2000, 09:55 PM
c&c1913
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i did not post the response for folks to pass judmement on my line sisters! it was posted to help this young lady see that women with children can become members of sororities. i look at this as a positive thing. at least she did go to college and was not sitting on her butt somewhere collecting welfare checks! she is now a teacher and guess what eclipse, she's getting married next month. that's right she's teaching someone else's child to read and add 2 + 2. as for my line sister that was pregnant when we were on line. we crossed in april and she had the baby in may. as for being out of commission, the semester and chapter activities were pretty much over for the summer. so she was able to come back full swing in the fall. and eclipse, she is married to her baby's father. so, left out i say go for it because i know an AKA that had 2 kids before joining and a Zeta that had three (twin girls at that) before joining. The Lord allows things to happen for reason. I don't have any kids, but my question is, why does a woman's identity have to change when she has a child. It's as if her life or what she wants ceases to exist. If these women had the support of family and friends to pursue their endeavors and The Lord made a way for them, then why knock them.
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  #19  
Old 06-20-2000, 10:16 PM
tickledpink tickledpink is offline
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I know that there are members of greek organizations that would look down on single mothers. Personally I would not. I have seen many single mothers drop out of college, never to return. If I had to vote on the membership of a woman that is a single parent, makes good grades, and is choosing to continue her college education, I would vote yes. I completely understand what my soror DG is saying as far as weighing your responsibilities, Left Out. As far as the mentoring goes, Soror I love you, but I have to respectfully disagree. Yes, we advise those that we mentor not to have premarital or unprotected sex. What about the mentee that already has and is either pregnant or a single mother and feels she has nothing to look forward to in life (no plans for college...)? Couldn't a single parent that is proving that she is beating the odds and correcting her errors serve as inspiration for her? Left Out, as long as you are working to improve your situation and rectify your past, that's not irresponsibility. I can't condemn anyone, all have fallen short --- and truth be told many have done the deed, but have merely been "lucky" .

Left out, enjoy your child, and if you have the time, dedication, and finances to devote to a greek org, go for it. You'll never know until you try.

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>>>"Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all."
Charm is deceptive and beauty is fleeting, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised... Proverbs 31:29-30

[This message has been edited by tickledpink (edited June 20, 2000).]
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  #20  
Old 06-20-2000, 10:16 PM
blu_theatrics blu_theatrics is offline
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Were should I start....I dont' think that you have to be married to have support from the father of your child and I really dispise the fact that you are considered a single parent when you are not married even though you are not parenting singly.

Next, I understnad you veiw on single parent families, but please understand that my definition of a single parent family is one were there is a single parent. Just because you aren't married doesn't mean you are doing it alone. (for example, divorced women aren't usually called single parents if the father still cares for the children)

But as far as bonding with the 5 month old fetus, maybe it's just me, but wouldn't the fetus be with her were ever she went.

And as far as the entire topic goes, don't let people discourage you. I had a line of five and four of us have children. My son is fifteen days older than one of my sisters and they had a ball together when ever we met to study or anything, and besides that we supported each other and my whole chater supports each other. That's what sisterhood means.... well at least that is what I was taught. If my son was sick, I got call s all day asking if everything was alright, did I/he need anything and it wasn't just words it was love.

I can say that I guess I do have a great support system and maybe that is why I am so against the comments that tell this lady to not join a sorority. But my son has not been harmed or neglected by me being a member of my org. and if a chapter or org won't or can't accept your family then maybe you shouldn't want to join their family




Quote:
Originally posted by Eclipse:
gloriajean said: In response to eclipse, I suppose one could also ask the nature of the question and why would you want to know?
_________________

gloriajean, I'm not sure what you mean by 'the nature of the question.' Could you clarify? As to why I want to know...their marital status would give me some indication of the support system that they had while undertaking such an endevour and like a lot of questions that are asked on this board I just wanted to know!

DELTABRAT said: "Why is the marital status of these women an issue?"
______________________

An issue???? I wouldn't say that it is an 'issue' for me, but I do think, if they were not married it should be an 'issue' for the sorority they were pledging.

If the next question is why would it be an issue...
1. I think a woman 5 months pregnant, married or not, should spend that time bonding with her baby to be, the father, etc., not trying to bond with her linesisters. That time is very important for the baby's devolpment. Plus, 3-4 months after she crossed she would probably be 'out of commission' for a while taking care of the baby, so what contribution could she make to the sorority? Of course, since I do not know the young lady in question, I am merely speculating.

2. As for the 25 or 26 with 3 children..time would certainly be a factor in my book! Plus, if you are a 25 year old single mother with 3 children,,,well, let me not go there!

3. In addition, I have heard many older members of sororities express distain for their younger sorors who are single parents because of the negative image that they may be sending to younger girls (in their youth or teen mentoring groups especially) that they might be mentoring.

I personally think society's standard regarding out of wedlock children has gotten too lax and that we must display the attitude that it is not o.k.

]


[This message has been edited by blu_theatrics (edited June 20, 2000).]
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  #21  
Old 06-20-2000, 10:45 PM
BlueReign BlueReign is offline
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C&C1913 - go 'head girl!!
I love your response.
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  #22  
Old 06-20-2000, 10:50 PM
BlueReign BlueReign is offline
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Oh and I forgot, Eclipse -- let's not go there about the 25 year old with 3 kids. I am 36 with 3 kids and chose at this time in my life to belong to a sorority. You never know what a person has been through so don't pass judgment please. Men leave and abandon their women with children all too easy. It's great that a 25 year old woman with 3 children can remain positive and continue to make positive choices in her life no matter what happens.


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  #23  
Old 06-20-2000, 10:54 PM
blu_theatrics blu_theatrics is offline
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well said Blu Reign

[This message has been edited by blu_theatrics (edited June 22, 2000).]
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  #24  
Old 06-21-2000, 12:08 AM
dstbrat dstbrat is offline
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i agree with dg. it can be done, but, i have seen it done poorly. sometimes children of bruhs and sorors are in places where young children ought not be. it frustrates me to see samll children at parties, bar-be-que and step shows when music is being played with explicit lyrics, dirty chants are said, and some orgs are grinding on the floor, etc. those are not appropriate places for kids. i don't like to see kids throwing up signs and calling like sorors. that, in my opinion, is inappropriate. some people thinks it's cute. but, that is how legacies grow up thinking that they are promised/owed membership. you just have to be careful and responsible about how you handle the situation.
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  #25  
Old 06-21-2000, 12:53 AM
DELTABRAT DELTABRAT is offline
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Left out?

I think it is perfectly possible to have children and join a sorority. I will agree with dstbrat that it is a personal decision the type of exposure that that child gets after crossing. It saddens my heart to see young children at events that are not appropriate. It is easy to feel left out, though. I have to admit that I have taken my son to events. I have to aks beforehand what type of "things" will be going on. Usually Sorors are pretty respectful. We all have a nurturing side to us : ) But when the Bruhs come...WHEW!!! I usually have to go at that time. I love 'em but y'all know what I am sayin'. I have a child (although I didn't when I pledged), and I have to commend women who have children and still go through with the process. I have seen two in my chapter. Both with children age 4-6. The support system has to be TIGHT, though. Both of them lived with their parents (this worked for them although others find it awkward to live at home during the process). The kids dads stepped in as well. I would say it is possible but the support has to be REALLY STRONG! There's just NO way for the child to have to be present at all of the events.

Just my $19.13
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  #26  
Old 06-21-2000, 03:12 PM
prettygyrl prettygyrl is offline
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C&C your responses were great I completely agree. Being a single mother myself let me say that it is definitely difficult but I know I am strong enuff to handle my situation. The last time I read the intake requirements for all of these orgs I do not beleive that one of the requirements was to not have chlidren or be married if you have some. As far as anyone who may think that just because they do not have any gives them the right to look down on someone else (whether they are in your org. or trying to be) you are sadly mistaken. sadly sadly mistaken . I would have to commend any woman who has children and is in college and making good grades and trying to service her communtity. I mean dag I know girls who do not have ANY kids and they are not doing nothing for themselves or their community! God puts nothing on you that he does not feel you can handle so obvioulsy he beleives that most of us single mothers out there can handle our present situations just fine. IF all orgs are founded on Christian prinicples then all members know already that ONLY GOD can judge!!!!! If he thinks that any of us single mothers can not deal with joining a sorority or whatever else we try and endure then he will not let it happen!!!! As far as being married some of us are not that fortunate and some of us really do not need a man around God is my childrens father and he will see to it that they are taking care of well!!! And as far as your older sorors looking down on it I believe that BUT I AM QUITE SURE THAT YOU CAN NAME A WHOLE LIST OF THINGS THAT THEY DO NOT AGREE WITH AS FAR AS SORORITY LIFe GOES TODAY PERIOD AND THIS IS JUST BEACUSE THINGS ARE DIFFERENT NOW THAN THEY WERE THEN. Then there is a fact that there are not that many VIRGINS in the world so just because some of yall have not been caught up or have had abortions does not make yall saints or better than anyone who gets caught up!!! I mentor and tutor kids all the time the fact that I have children is no contradiction at all, I can actually speak to them from my experiences, so to help them see that they need to make better choices because things can be difficult for single mothers(difficult not impossible). I mean if that is a contradicton then so is anyone who hazed or accepted hazing but is now trying to bring to an end. So is Magic Johnson going around taling about Aids I mean give me a break!!! LEFTOUT gyrl look your marital status or your parental status should have nothing to do with you getting in your sorority of choice as long as you can take care of business I would not worry about it. and IF someone makes a big deal about it or trys to put you down about it then you should ask yourself : Do you really want to be involved with such judgemental petty people anyway! Then try a grad chapter!! Eclipse and who else was talking about this and that: As long as anyone out there is having premarital sex (whether you have been caught up with a child or not) that is actually the problem! Not the kids so to speak, its having premarital sex period that is unchristian like! If you feel as if I or anyone else, would not be a good mentor etc because we have children then neither would anyone having sex period who is not married right? Afterall that is how unwed mothers come about! I mean do some really think that its okay with our creator that they have sex before they get married as long as you do not get pregnant? Please its all one in the same! It can reap the same repurcussions! It just has not hit some as it has others. I would have much more respect for a woman who got pregnant 92 times and kept all 92 kids than I would one who had 92 abortions!!!! I really do not feel as if it is necessary to try and punish young mothers married or not because that will not solve the problem at all! I commend young ladies who can make it until they are married to have sex, I am sure it is a wonderful accomplishmen but I would never CONDEMN those that did not!!!!! I never will agree with deb balls or anything that want to celebrate a girl for not having children young and then leave one that did have a kid feeling as if she is not good enuff! Please! Especially since they both could be having sex like all the time and one just got preg and the other did not!!!! So like I, and many others have said,LEFTOUT ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE WHATS RIGHT FOR YOU EVERYBODY ELSE IS JUST VOICES IN THE WIND! IF YOU DO NOT CROSS BECAUSE OF YOUR SON THEN YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MUST NOT HAVE BEEN RIGHT FOR YOU AT THAT TIME. MUCH LOVE TO YALL. TO OTHER SINGLE MOTHERS LIKE MYSELF KEEP YA HEAD UP! WE HANDLING OUR STUFF AND WE DO NOT NEED NO ONE TO LIKE IT OR LOVE IT. I DO NOT KNOW ABOUT YALL BUT MY BABIES IS WHAT KEEPS ME FOCUSED AND MOVING FORWARD TO ACCOMPLISH ALL MY GOALS!
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  #27  
Old 06-21-2000, 04:32 PM
Left out??
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For clarification, I am a single/unwed mother. I gave birth at the ripe old age of 15! I understood that I had made a bad choice in my life and it took me a long time to realize the plan God had for my life. My son is 8 years old and over those 8 years: I've rededicated my life to God and, in presenting my body as a living sacrifice to him, I've been celibate for 3 3/4 years. I counsel teenage mothers and speak at my former high school regarding teenage parenting and sex. I tutor inner-city children twice a week and I am the Director of the Young Adult Ministry at my church. I do all of this, plus attend school full time, work part time, and am a full time mother AND father to my 8 year old. I am well aware of who is charge of my life. As long as God is the Head of my life, my steps are ordered! I KNOW that I can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me and as long as what I do is for His glory, I can handle anything.

I thank and praise the Almighty God for giving me the strength and the ability to live the life that I live. I think it's time-out for peer condemnation. We should not look at people and think that, "because she is unmarried and has a child, she will be poor representation of my organization." I believe that I am a testimony. We all are. We should live as such.

Thanks for ALL responses!
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  #28  
Old 06-21-2000, 05:01 PM
Discogoddess Discogoddess is offline
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Prettygrl:

No one is asking you to justify your choices or get defensive about them, but I believe the young lady who started the thread was seeking people's honest opinions. And honestly, I think that people should realize that joining a sorority is not a right, and no one deserves membership simply because they have met the requirements and/or overcome adversity, such as single parenthood. Membership must be extended by those already in the group, based on educational, community service, and character assessments. And like it or not, there are members in these groups who disagree with the notion that single, unwed mothers in undergraduate school should be focusing on attaining sorority membership. I must disagree with my sisters here and say that I think young mothers should direct their attention toward receiving their undergraduate degrees and raising their children before seeking sorority membership. AKA, DST, ZPhiB, and SGRho will all be there waiting for them once they graduate and establish themselves in their respective careers and communities.

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  #29  
Old 06-21-2000, 05:32 PM
Left out
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Disogoddess,

What is the difference between pledging a sorority in undergrad vs. grad? Is grad less demanding? Also, what is your reasoning for your "young mothers should direct their attention toward receiving their undergraduate degrees and raising their children before seeking sorority membership" philosophy? Do you not think that we are capable of doing more than 2 things at once? I understand that it's hard to understand a situation when the situation is not yours, but I think that some of the difficulties in your life may not seem as difficult to you as it does to me.

This was going to school full time and working full time. I asked her how she did it as it seemed like a very difficult task. She simply replied, "Well, I have to ask you how you manage to work part time, go to school full time, and still take care of your son?" I've never looked at my many "hats" as difficult and she probably never thought about how difficult it was to work and go to school full time.

We should stop trying to tell others what is too difficult for them. I'm sure you are well aware of how much you can handle and it would be stupid of me to tell you, "You should not be taking 5 classes, you should focus on these 3 classes and take these 2 next semester." Do you understand what I'm getting at?
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  #30  
Old 06-21-2000, 05:34 PM
Left out
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oops! I meant to say:

This GIRL was going to school full time....
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