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  #1  
Old 06-28-2020, 02:26 PM
Sororitysock Sororitysock is offline
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AOII Eliminates Legacy Policy

Like Delta Gamma, Alpha Omicron Pi has eliminated preferential treatment of legacies during recruitment. Changes include:

-Chapters will not be required to invite legacies back to the first invitational round of primary recruitment.

-Legacies who accept an invitation to the final preference party, like all PNMs who attend our preference party, must be placed on the chapter’s final bid list per the NPC Policy. This means that legacies do not have to be placed at the top of the bid list.

-If a legacy is released, the Alumnae Advisory Committee (AAC) should contact the AOII relative via telephone or email as a courtesy to inform the AOII relative of the legacy’s release.

https://www.alphaomicronpi.org/news/...1ysKwp_QI6lRaA
  #2  
Old 06-28-2020, 03:50 PM
TLLK TLLK is offline
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Thank you for sharing Sorority Sock. I'm curious to see if we'll see other NPC organizations following the decisions taken by Delta Gamma and Alpha Omicron Pi regarding their legacy policies before the start of Fall formal recruitment.
  #3  
Old 06-29-2020, 03:06 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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OK, so I first saw DG eliminated their legacy policy, and now AOPi. Can someone please tell me how this makes a sorority more inclusive? All so that legacies don't have to be placed at the top of the bid list? When did we stop educating members that if you invite a woman to preference, she absolutely has the chance to become a sister of the chapter, so get to know women prior to preference?

This whole crock of BS about inclusivity is so ridiculous, I can't even stand it. Before I get bombarded by the "predominately Southern chapters" argument, I get it, but most legacy policies state that a chapter is only required to invite a legacy to their FIRST invitational party. After that, they are free to release said woman. Are you telling me that so many legacies are getting bids that aren't "wanted" by the chapters?

This all seems like a reach for a way to sororities to stay relevant with the political climate of the country right now. Maybe I'm just cynical as hell, but the whole thing is making me laugh.
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:17 PM
DGTess DGTess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadokat View Post
OK, so I first saw DG eliminated their legacy policy, and now AOPi. Can someone please tell me how this makes a sorority more inclusive? All so that legacies don't have to be placed at the top of the bid list? When did we stop educating members that if you invite a woman to preference, she absolutely has the chance to become a sister of the chapter, so get to know women prior to preference?

This whole crock of BS about inclusivity is so ridiculous, I can't even stand it. Before I get bombarded by the "predominately Southern chapters" argument, I get it, but most legacy policies state that a chapter is only required to invite a legacy to their FIRST invitational party. After that, they are free to release said woman. Are you telling me that so many legacies are getting bids that aren't "wanted" by the chapters?

This all seems like a reach for a way to sororities to stay relevant with the political climate of the country right now. Maybe I'm just cynical as hell, but the whole thing is making me laugh.
It surely provides a better opportunity for non-legacies to make it to Round 3. If all legacies must be invited to Round 2 (or first invitational round), which was DG's policy, it's possible a chapter would have to cut women they'd prefer to have room for legacies.

Much as I like the idea of dropping the legacy policy, I am much more concerned with how we get women of color and other minority persuasions to register for rush in the first place.
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  #5  
Old 06-29-2020, 03:22 PM
Iota_JWH Iota_JWH is offline
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Wow! How this makes a sorority more inclusive is primarily through the eliminination of the automatic invite back to round 2. Now everyone is evaluated completely on who they are and what they can add to the chapter. If a PNM who is a legacy really wants to join her legacy chapter her enthusiasm ought to be as high as anyone else who really wants to join. As for not being at the top of the bid list after preference, well, I have seen legacies not getting a bid after attending pref and no-legacies not getting a bid to a chapter they had their heart set on. Both are devestated. By the way, I also have seen a legacy NOT accepting her bid to join her legacy house, too.
  #6  
Old 06-29-2020, 03:38 PM
chi-o_cat chi-o_cat is offline
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Originally Posted by DGTess View Post
Much as I like the idea of dropping the legacy policy, I am much more concerned with how we get women of color and other minority persuasions to register for rush in the first place.
I think required recommendation policies are probably more of a barrier in that sense than legacy policies.
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:44 PM
DGTess DGTess is offline
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Originally Posted by chi-o_cat View Post
I think required recommendation policies are probably more of a barrier in that sense than legacy policies.
Possibly true, but an incoming student is more likely to know she has to go through rush than she is to know about recommendation policies, except maybe at the top 20 US greek-life universities.

I can't speak to a large chapter, but I know we wrote recs for women we wanted. We never let a rec be an obstacle (and this was decades ago), but we didn't even have that option if she never rushed.
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  #8  
Old 06-29-2020, 05:04 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Originally Posted by shadokat View Post
OK, so I first saw DG eliminated their legacy policy, and now AOPi. Can someone please tell me how this makes a sorority more inclusive? All so that legacies don't have to be placed at the top of the bid list? When did we stop educating members that if you invite a woman to preference, she absolutely has the chance to become a sister of the chapter, so get to know women prior to preference?

This whole crock of BS about inclusivity is so ridiculous, I can't even stand it. Before I get bombarded by the "predominately Southern chapters" argument, I get it, but most legacy policies state that a chapter is only required to invite a legacy to their FIRST invitational party. After that, they are free to release said woman. Are you telling me that so many legacies are getting bids that aren't "wanted" by the chapters?

This all seems like a reach for a way to sororities to stay relevant with the political climate of the country right now. Maybe I'm just cynical as hell, but the whole thing is making me laugh.
Yes!! The timing is awful. Virtue signaling at its worst.

I've heard that some sororities have been wanting to get rid of legacy policies for years because there are so many legacies now and the sororities have taken the brunt of alum anger when legacies were cut. Then--all this happened and WOW!, we can get rid of the legacy policy and look fabulous for doing it! And if anyone protests, we'll all jump on them and tell them how racist they are!

The thing is, any sorority is going to find a way to retain PNMs in whom they're really interested. No one is stupid enough to drop a fabulous non-legacy because they have to keep a legacy for 1 more party! They will find a way to keep Ms. Fabulous if they want her.

About recs--I guarantee that if a sorority reallyreallyreally wants a PNM, a rec will be found. They can not do this for everyone, especially in huge recruitments, but they WILL do it for a highly desired woman. Any sorority that has recently announced that they're dropping recs is, again, virtue signalling--because they are NOT used to usher socially prominent women into a chapter. If social prominence is that important to a chapter, they KNOW about prominent PNMs without a rec.

I have seen sororities use recs more often to learn about girls they don't know, like small town girls, or to find out who they DON'T want to pledge. No one wants to get a girl who will make racist videos or get freshmen drunk or haze new members. Who wants to get their charter pulled? And every case I know of in which a member did something awful like that, it turns out she was sketchy in high school too and nobody knew.

If someone truly believes that dumping a legacy policy will make recruitment more inclusive, I have some swampland I'd like to sell you.
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  #9  
Old 06-29-2020, 05:44 PM
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Sciencewoman Sciencewoman is offline
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I'll pass on the swampland. If the problem is too many legacies to bid, and hurt feelings that result, maybe this is the answer. If the problem is lack of inclusivity and diversity, this misses the mark. I'm just guessing that legacy policies are not the reason behind lack of diversity during recruitment registration, and they're certainly not the reason behind member retention issues for women of color.
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:05 PM
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I've been wondering--what does NPHC think about all this?

Twenty years ago, I was talking to the girls in my daughter's gang about rushing and there were 4 black girls whom I really wanted to rush. They told me that their moms would execute them if they didn't join their groups. (Which they did, 2 Deltas and 2 AKAs.)

Sure we can make a big deal about inclusiveness and so on, but will we be poaching on NPHC territory? And making enemies? Because Delta and AKA rule this city and I can't see the alums I know being thrilled with their daughters choosing a different path.

(Actually a lot of us have been messaging about this, really wanting to know the answer, and I finally decided to come out and ask.)
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:42 PM
Sen's Revenge Sen's Revenge is online now
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I've been wondering--what does NPHC think about all this?

Twenty years ago, I was talking to the girls in my daughter's gang about rushing and there were 4 black girls whom I really wanted to rush. They told me that their moms would execute them if they didn't join their groups. (Which they did, 2 Deltas and 2 AKAs.)

Sure we can make a big deal about inclusiveness and so on, but will we be poaching on NPHC territory? And making enemies? Because Delta and AKA rule this city and I can't see the alums I know being thrilled with their daughters choosing a different path.

(Actually a lot of us have been messaging about this, really wanting to know the answer, and I finally decided to come out and ask.)
This is a non-issue in NPHC organizations. Any woman or man we lose to an NPC or NIC organization as a first semester freshman is not the kind of person we are seeking in the first place. There is nothing wrong with that person, but we welcome people who have made up their minds.

Even if NPC "poached" certain women, it would never be enough to have a cultural or financial impact on our organizations. Our membership strongholds are historically black colleges and universities and alumni/ae and graduate chapters.

Any mother having a hissy fit because her daughter made another choice has missed the point of NPHC Greekdom as a whole: that we seek organizations because they are in our heart, and we are chosen because we have demonstrated our interest and proven ourselves worthy through close observation over a lengthy period of time.

Hope that clears things up. I'm happy to explain if anything is not clear.

ETA: Literally only one of my hundreds of NPHC friends on social media has even mentioned this, and he is a past national president of an org who merey finds it interesting.
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:44 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Old 06-29-2020, 10:38 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge View Post
This is a non-issue in NPHC organizations. Any woman or man we lose to an NPC or NIC organization as a first semester freshman is not the kind of person we are seeking in the first place. There is nothing wrong with that person, but we welcome people who have made up their minds.

Even if NPC "poached" certain women, it would never be enough to have a cultural or financial impact on our organizations. Our membership strongholds are historically black colleges and universities and alumni/ae and graduate chapters.

Any mother having a hissy fit because her daughter made another choice has missed the point of NPHC Greekdom as a whole: that we seek organizations because they are in our heart, and we are chosen because we have demonstrated our interest and proven ourselves worthy through close observation over a lengthy period of time.

Hope that clears things up. I'm happy to explain if anything is not clear.

ETA: Literally only one of my hundreds of NPHC friends on social media has even mentioned this, and he is a past national president of an org who merey finds it interesting.
I just totally admire the NPHC members' dedication to their membership. NPC just hasn't figured out how to get to that level and it makes me sad. It is truly to be admired and emulated.
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:42 PM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Sure we can make a big deal about inclusiveness and so on, but will we be poaching on NPHC territory? And making enemies? Because Delta and AKA rule this city and I can't see the alums I know being thrilled with their daughters choosing a different path.
Ironically, this is the very issue with our legacy policies.

There are certain expectations that some moms put on their daughters and/or a chapter and/or their national organization to essentially guarantee their daughter a bid.

And I say moms, because honestly, in all the angry leagacy-based phone calls I've heard about over the last 15+ years (since I've been Greek) both here on Greekchat and elsewhere, 99% of them have been from moms (and not grandmothers, biological sisters, etc.).

And what is this 'poaching' you speak of? Why would anyone be upset with a young woman going down the path she sees as being the best for herself, based on knowledge and positive experiences; a place where she feels most comfortable? If someone's mad about that, well... f*** them, I say. If that's a problem for ANY of us in Greek life, no matter the council or organization, then we're all failing miserably.

We need to allow women to make the best decision for themselves. Without pressure. Without guilt. Without making them feel 'less than'. And all of us (adults) need to stop putting so much social pressure on teenagers and/or making them feel like the sorority they join will determine their lot in life and how successful they are, or who they'll marry, or how much money they'll make, or how popular they'll be.

Maybe some people finally stood up and said they've had enough of all that. And good for them, I say!
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Last edited by ASTalumna06; 06-29-2020 at 11:56 PM.
  #15  
Old 06-30-2020, 02:14 AM
PersistentDST PersistentDST is offline
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Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge View Post
This is a non-issue in NPHC organizations. Any woman or man we lose to an NPC or NIC organization as a first semester freshman is not the kind of person we are seeking in the first place. There is nothing wrong with that person, but we welcome people who have made up their minds.

Even if NPC "poached" certain women, it would never be enough to have a cultural or financial impact on our organizations. Our membership strongholds are historically black colleges and universities and alumni/ae and graduate chapters.

Any mother having a hissy fit because her daughter made another choice has missed the point of NPHC Greekdom as a whole: that we seek organizations because they are in our heart, and we are chosen because we have demonstrated our interest and proven ourselves worthy through close observation over a lengthy period of time.

Hope that clears things up. I'm happy to explain if anything is not clear.

ETA: Literally only one of my hundreds of NPHC friends on social media has even mentioned this, and he is a past national president of an org who merey finds it interesting.
I agree with all of this. The conversation never comes up in my Greek circles. I only know of one guy that was participated in NIC recruitment, dropped and ended up joining an NPHC organization.

Our councils offer different sorority experiences. We all offer leadership, service and social opportunities, but different nevertheless. Normally, it’s a pretty clear line between “interests” and “PNM’s,” regardless of race/ethnicity.

I keep seeing discussions about what the NPC organizations can do to attract more diverse young women to participate in recruitment. I honestly don’t think there is one special, magical answer to that question, because Black people (and non-Black POC) are diverse. The goal should be to see, understand and respect each persons differences (just say no to “colorblindness“), but to treat each PNM with the same kindness, consideration and expectations, right? Black PNM’s watch the same recruitment videos, obsess over chapter IG pages and plan their outfits and hair styles 3 months before recruitment just like everyone else. Just like their peers, they are attracted to the things that they believe NPC membership will offer them. You can’t poach someone that wants to be poached. Similarly, non-Black NPHC members saw something in our organizations that made them research and pursue us. They have the same expectations placed on them as our Black interests.
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