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  #61  
Old 10-12-2018, 12:16 PM
beckymer92 beckymer92 is offline
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On this thread alone, there are Alpha Phis both confirming and denying this to be a national policy, thus "she said-she said" (so we don't know). A member might have some ax to grind, so it could be sour grapes, we don't know.

I don't see the downfall of "rushing for looks" even if it is happening. Alpha Phi overall seems to do quite well. That we do know.
  #62  
Old 10-12-2018, 04:13 PM
bevinpiphi bevinpiphi is offline
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Looks don't determine the quality of a woman.
  #63  
Old 10-12-2018, 04:57 PM
beckymer92 beckymer92 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevinpiphi View Post
Looks don't determine the quality of a woman.
Exactly! Which means there is no causation between rushing for looks and poor outcomes/low-quality members.
  #64  
Old 10-12-2018, 05:48 PM
bevinpiphi bevinpiphi is offline
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Originally Posted by beckymer92 View Post
Exactly! Which means there is no causation between rushing for looks and poor outcomes/low-quality members.
And ABSOLUTELY no reason to eliminate someone as a potential member because of her looks or lack thereof.

I was at a campus that had the tall skinny blonde chapter, the tall skinny brunette chapter, the chapter of dancers, the slightly less tall and skinny blonde chapter, the slightly less tall and skinny brunette chapter, and some more diverse chapters. It was painfully obvious which chapters recruited to looks, ignoring nearly everything else. It makes recruiting based on values incredibly difficult if chapters and new members are focused mainly on outward appearances. Tent talk was brutal and superficial.
  #65  
Old 10-12-2018, 06:30 PM
APhi2KD APhi2KD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevinpiphi View Post
Looks don't determine the quality of a woman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beckymer92 View Post
Exactly! Which means there is no causation between rushing for looks and poor outcomes/low-quality members.
WTF?? How did you arrive there???
Your comments are the most bizarre in this thread. Rushing on physical appearance foremost is denying that the quality of the person inside is most important. THAT is what creates the problem. Yes, there are many accomplished women who are stunners. RUSH THEM, by all means! But ultimately, rushing for quality members should be done from the inside-out.

Last edited by APhi2KD; 10-12-2018 at 06:31 PM. Reason: Clarity
  #66  
Old 10-12-2018, 06:34 PM
APhi2KD APhi2KD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beckymer92 View Post
On this thread alone, there are Alpha Phis both confirming and denying this to be a national policy, thus "she said-she said" (so we don't know). A member might have some ax to grind, so it could be sour grapes, we don't know.

I don't see the downfall of "rushing for looks" even if it is happening. Alpha Phi overall seems to do quite well. That we do know.
I can’t tell if you are trying to help or hurt APhi. Your repeated calls of “sour grapes” and back-handed compliments lead me to guess the latter.

Last edited by APhi2KD; 10-12-2018 at 06:46 PM. Reason: Spelling
  #67  
Old 10-12-2018, 11:12 PM
SunflowerState SunflowerState is offline
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Originally Posted by APhi2KD View Post
I canít tell if you are trying to help or hurt APhi. Your repeated calls of ďsour grapesĒ and back-handed compliments lead me to guess the latter.
Thank you APhi2KD. My thought exactly.
  #68  
Old 10-13-2018, 10:48 PM
GreekOne GreekOne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beckymer92 View Post
On this thread alone, there are Alpha Phis both confirming and denying this to be a national policy, thus "she said-she said" (so we don't know). A member might have some ax to grind, so it could be sour grapes, we don't know.

I don't see the downfall of "rushing for looks" even if it is happening. Alpha Phi overall seems to do quite well. That we do know.
Imagine if you were hiring and you had candidates that were over qualified and pleasant but not attractive. Then, there was a candidate who looked like Bradley Cooper but didn't have the necessary skills. Who gets the job?

If you are hiring fashion models, it is clear how you hire. But, if the job requires more than wearing a size 0 and walking a runway, you should think about what makes your organization stronger. What is your fiduciary responsibility to your organization?

Sure, I would love to chat up Bradly Cooper over the coffee machine every day. But, if he is not contributing to the overall goals of the organization, is he the right fit?

I would rather be a member of an organization filled with Madeline Albrights and Ruth Bader Ginsbergs than Melania Trumps. ( Ignore party affiliation. I am making a point about quality vs. substance and contribution instead of party).

I would want my chapter to be filled with athletes, scholars, student leaders AND the Homecoming Queen. But, if something had to give, I would not pick one criteria to the detriment of others. A chapter is richer and deeper by having diversity.

One of the biggest concerns, to me, about this (presumed) Alpha Phi piece is that alumnae are dropping legacies and friends of chapter members because they consider them to be "MG" based on a superficial standard of beauty. That is completely beyond the realm of my experience as a collegian or an adviser.

If we have come to a point where sororities want women who offer nothing but beauty, we should rethink our values.
  #69  
Old 10-13-2018, 11:00 PM
APhi2KD APhi2KD is offline
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Originally Posted by GreekOne View Post
I would rather be a member of an organization filled with Madeline Albrights and Ruth Bader Ginsbergs than Melania Trumps. ( Ignore party affiliation. I am making a point about quality vs. substance and contribution instead of party).
Word.
  #70  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:39 AM
beckymer92 beckymer92 is offline
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Rushing for looks is only a problem if you stereotype attractive women as unintelligent, unmotivated, uncaring and unkind.

Me? I'd rather be a member of an org filled with Amy Conley Barretts, Mia Loves, Lolo Joneses, Melania Trumps and Michelle Malkins any day over an org filled with the likes of Madeline Albright and RBG.
  #71  
Old 10-14-2018, 11:24 AM
GreekOne GreekOne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beckymer92 View Post
Rushing for looks is only a problem if you stereotype attractive women as unintelligent, unmotivated, uncaring and unkind.
No one has said that attractive women can't be intelligent, motivated, caring and kind. Those traits are not mutually exclusive. We have many members in our chapters that are all of those things in addition to being stunning. However, there are also women that don't fit a stereotypical version of beauty who are research scientists, incredible athletes, legacies or simply hilarious and fun to be around. From the document originally posted, it appears that these women would not make the cut no matter how much else they could bring to the chapter.

One would hope that chapters would recognize that outward appearance is only one piece of the puzzle--not worthy of trumping all else.
  #72  
Old 10-14-2018, 12:03 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beckymer92 View Post
Rushing for looks is only a problem if you stereotype attractive women as unintelligent, unmotivated, uncaring and unkind.

Me? I'd rather be a member of an org filled with Amy Conley Barretts, Mia Loves, Lolo Joneses, Melania Trumps and Michelle Malkins any day over an org filled with the likes of Madeline Albright and RBG.
I donít know who the hell any of those people are except MT but if you want to hang out with them OK. I think you missed the point where she said she wasnít referring to their particular politics but rather to their accomplishments. I mean Madeline Albright totally got kicked to my personal curb after the voting for HRC remarks, but I still appreciate what GreekOne was saying.

You keep missing major points of the issue, like the woman who was a university athlete and a friend to a huge portion of the chapter and was flagged as an undesirable candidate. Or the fact that membersí evaluations in the first round were actually a sham and had nothing to do with whether or not the rushee would move on to the next round.

We all take looks into account when selecting members. Thatís not a secret. Itís when looks are the ONLY thing - and worse, when a SPECIFIC look is the only acceptable one (the ďsilky hairĒ reference? Come ON) - that it veers into a territory that NPC sororities emphatically do not want to occupy. As the rush chair stated, one of the reasons she found this all so hard to deal with was that she DID find lifetime friendships with women who were intelligent, motivated, caring and kind. And I would think women with those attributes would like to think that they were part of the reason they were selected for membership - not just their looks.
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  #73  
Old 10-14-2018, 12:55 PM
AZTheta AZTheta is offline
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I promised my friends I wasn't going to comment here because of the very obvious Arizona Alpha Phi connections to this issue. You can google it, folks. Breaking my promise to say this:

beckymer92 you aren't even an NPC member. You don't have any sort of grasp on the bigger picture or the real issues that are at stake. This isn't just about Alpha Phi and we all know it. You're clueless. You miss all the important points and keep harping on looks. Your shallow trolling is beyond obvious. Have a seat. Or not. Whatever.

On the very remote, minute chance that you are an NPC member, boy howdy and an eye roll and a sigh is all I got for you. Sure would like to know your chapter. Statistically we are going to have people like you in our membership and typically they don't prevail or last long. I looked at all your posts and I am confident that you are not one of us. At this point you're just a pathetic joke. I don't need to defend my Panhellenic sisters and our combined membership. So go back under your bridge and stay the hell out of something you know nothing about.
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  #74  
Old 10-14-2018, 12:56 PM
panhelrose panhelrose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beckymer92 View Post
Rushing for looks is only a problem if you stereotype attractive women as unintelligent, unmotivated, uncaring and unkind.

Me? I'd rather be a member of an org filled with Amy Conley Barretts, Mia Loves, Lolo Joneses, Melania Trumps and Michelle Malkins any day over an org filled with the likes of Madeline Albright and RBG.
I know this isn't the point you're trying to make, but RBG is a member of an NPC sorority and I'm certain AEPhi members are proud to call her a sister, not in the least because if you actually google "young Ruth Bader Ginsburg," that girl is BEAUTIFUL! I'm sure she made her sisters at Cornell very proud as a member of Phi Beta Kappa and the highest-ranking female student.

Speaking of pitting individual women against each other, I think one of the biggest issues we have with this expose (if you will) is the evaluation of attractiveness of active sisters as a way of choosing who speaks to which PNMs. Whenever my sisters in other bump groups had to sit out rounds during recruitment half were glad to be getting a break, but half were heartbroken they couldn't meet more PNMs. I can't imagine finding out that your sisters, the people you're supposed to confide in and grow with, are evaluating you and your ability to recruit desirable PNMs based solely on your appearance, and deciding you aren't worthy of the top picks. That you aren't the type of sister they think future sisters would like. You already worry you're not "good enough" when you go through recruitment, and it turns out you're still not "good enough" when you're a sister.

Between that and the slideshow sent to fraternities with only photos of new members, the whole read just made me pretty sad.
  #75  
Old 10-14-2018, 01:17 PM
beckymer92 beckymer92 is offline
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Thank you guys for making my point, that picking beauties doesn't equal low-quality, high-problem members as insinuated. IF a group rushes for looks, they are likely picking girls that also encompass their values. They will likely still have a super group of women either way. Right, I was not taking any shots at AEPhi. As stated, Alpha Phi may or may not be rushing for looks (that's still debatable) but they seem very successful nonetheless so it sounds like someone is feeling insecure or left out or something. I don't know. To whoever said I wasn't in a sorority, don't assume.
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