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  #16  
Old 09-27-2018, 04:08 PM
zbxo zbxo is offline
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Just curious. Those who don't believe in membership reviews.... Are you advisors/House corp for an extended period of time?

Membership reviews do not just come out of nowhere. The risk management job of advisors is enormous. There have most likely been countless meetings with members involving their behavior before their membership revocation. Way before National comes in. We won't hear much from Chi Omega. It would violate their policies. National never wants situations to get to the point of Membership reviews. But it is way better than having a risk management disaster.

The article posted is indeed very one sided IMO. The women interviewed seem like angels but they could have had behavior that would have taken the whole chapter down or worse, someone could have eventually been hurt or killed. Remember, the chapter was already on probation.

Sure the article is of interest, but just remember, it could be any one of our chapters tomorrow.

I can see why AZtheta was a little bothered by the original post. Assuming panhelrose is a recent graduate of that campus, it may have been seen as a little competitive/snarky the way it was just flopped out there without any sort of commentary. But it is a conversation worth having. Risk management always is.
  #17  
Old 09-27-2018, 06:57 PM
AZTheta AZTheta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APhi2KD View Post
What’s the issue? It IS of interest when and how chapters have a shift like this. I don’t understand the problem.
I don't understand the problem either. I do see that the focus has been on my question to panhelrose about her motivation in posting the link to the college newspaper article. She was an active at GWU, and yes, to me it came across snarky because she posted a link to a biased newspaper article, with no other commentary. Hence I asked her -she chose to not respond. That's her prerogative. And people think my question was snarky. *shrug*

If you read the first part of my response to her, you'll see where I'm coming from. This isn't about Chi O for me (I don't have any connection to Chi O whatsoever other than panhellenically), it's about all of us. It's a more general response that I have whenever I see posts about chapter business. I've spent way too much time in the trenches, on advisory boards, house corp boards, etc, to assume that this was a simple matter. If you have ever had to go through a charter review, you'd understand. It's painful. It's exhausting. BUT if it is done correctly it can turn a chapter around. Then again, unless it's your ox being gored - if you catch my drift. Yeah.

It may be of interest to some, I will concede that point. Not to me. i don't take pleasure in others' difficulties. Consider that this was obviously a chapter-wide issue, not a matter of one or a few members misbehaving (and do I need to cite examples? Probably not, If you've been here long enough you can come up with some, I'm sure. Including some very recent examples). National organizations don't just flip a switch and do membership review. It comes at the culmination of a very long series of interventions.

Charter/membership review is a major hot button for me. Again go back and read my numbered points. It takes the focus off my question to panhelrose (who I am sure is a lovely person, and not ill-intentioned). She kicked the beehive on this one and the queen bee came out stinging. Again, I stand by what I wrote.
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  #18  
Old 09-27-2018, 07:40 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zbxo View Post
Just curious. Those who don't believe in membership reviews.... Are you advisors/House corp for an extended period of time?

Membership reviews do not just come out of nowhere. The risk management job of advisors is enormous. There have most likely been countless meetings with members involving their behavior before their membership revocation. Way before National comes in. We won't hear much from Chi Omega. It would violate their policies. National never wants situations to get to the point of Membership reviews. But it is way better than having a risk management disaster.

The article posted is indeed very one sided IMO. The women interviewed seem like angels but they could have had behavior that would have taken the whole chapter down or worse, someone could have eventually been hurt or killed. Remember, the chapter was already on probation.

Sure the article is of interest, but just remember, it could be any one of our chapters tomorrow.

I can see why AZtheta was a little bothered by the original post. Assuming panhelrose is a recent graduate of that campus, it may have been seen as a little competitive/snarky the way it was just flopped out there without any sort of commentary. But it is a conversation worth having. Risk management always is.
You seem to be confusing “not down with membership reviews” with “not down with closing a chapter for any reason at all.” Yes, there are reasons chapters are a hot mess RFM wise and something needs to be done, but I don’t think a membership review is the way to do it.

I’m not in favor of making members explain why they are worthy of membership. I’m not in favor of making members say who they think who’s a good brother/sister. I’m not in favor of asking someone to inform on their big, or little, or someone else they’re close to. I’m not in favor of a national volunteer who has known members for 2.5 seconds deciding who is “good” and who is “bad.” It usually seems like an effort to not close the chapter and stay open in some fashion, rather than close and have to go back into the expansion churn. But if you’re hanging on to Mount Rushmore with your fingernails, how on earth is that going to be a pleasant or positive experience for the members involved?

If a chapter has a clique or group that is making things awful, maybe HQ coming in and doing a review would eliminate that. But it’s all negative from what I can see; it turns HQ into the bad guy, and it hasn’t helped the members learn how to resolve conflict on their own.

We all need to be honest and realize that a lot of the time, loyalty to chapter sisters/brothers is greater than loyalty to the national organization. And if we have a problem with that, then we (the IFC and NPC) need to radically change the way we select new members.
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  #19  
Old 09-27-2018, 08:06 PM
AZTheta AZTheta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
You seem to be confusing “not down with membership reviews” with “not down with closing a chapter for any reason at all.” Yes, there are reasons chapters are a hot mess RFM wise and something needs to be done, but I don’t think a membership review is the way to do it.

I’m not in favor of making members explain why they are worthy of membership. I’m not in favor of making members say who they think who’s a good brother/sister. I’m not in favor of asking someone to inform on their big, or little, or someone else they’re close to. I’m not in favor of a national volunteer who has known members for 2.5 seconds deciding who is “good” and who is “bad.” It usually seems like an effort to not close the chapter and stay open in some fashion, rather than close and have to go back into the expansion churn. But if you’re hanging on to Mount Rushmore with your fingernails, how on earth is that going to be a pleasant or positive experience for the members involved?

If a chapter has a clique or group that is making things awful, maybe HQ coming in and doing a review would eliminate that. But it’s all negative from what I can see; it turns HQ into the bad guy, and it hasn’t helped the members learn how to resolve conflict on their own.

We all need to be honest and realize that a lot of the time, loyalty to chapter sisters/brothers is greater than loyalty to the national organization. And if we have a problem with that, then we (the IFC and NPC) need to radically change the way we select new members.
33, I don't see that confusion in what zbxo wrote in her post so I don't know where you got that. I also don't see that you answered her question about advising/house corp. That's your prerogative, of course, not to answer (which is my word of the day apparently) (and now I have a godawful ear worm). Also consider I spent the afternoon watching a Federal Court Judge avoid and evade answering direct questions; I started charting the pragmatic violations committed in an effort to keep from smashing my television in frustration ("ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION, WILL YOU????" I screamed repeatedly).

What you describe as membership review is not at all what I have experienced. Is it what you have gone through? Yikes. I do think there is validity and value in having members identify the "why" of their membership. You and I already disagree about the usefulness of charter review. Would be interesting to see/read what other NPC members think.
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  #20  
Old 09-27-2018, 08:27 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Whether I advise or am on house corp or national council or a Greek advisor wouldn’t change my opinion. I don’t think dividing a chapter against itself is an effective form of conflict resolution or chapter rejuvenation. A chapter at my alma mater (not mine, just to ultra clarify) kicked out everyone but the most recent pledge class and it was definitely prolonging the inevitable. Not to mention how those girls must have felt! “All those girls who you loved during rush who were the reason you joined? The ones who invited you to share their sisterhood? Well, they’re out because we don’t find them to be proper representations of that sisterhood. Y’all are okay, though.” (Oh and we need placeholders)

I think out of necessity, this sort of thing ceases to be chapter business when very visible sisters of the chapter are no longer sisters - I mean, I would think that sisters who are living in the house are not barely there, blink and you’d miss their involvement types. Any GLO who does this should know it’s going to get talked about and hashed over by the campus and Greek community in general. It would almost be an insult if no one noticed anything had happened, actually.

On a completely other note related to your earworm I AM GOING TO SEE RONNIE BOBBY RICKY AND MIKE AND I AM SO EXCITED.
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  #21  
Old 09-27-2018, 08:50 PM
zbxo zbxo is offline
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33girl. you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you that a woman's membership status is decided by their National in 2.5 seconds during review. Advisors and exec boards spend countless hours on standards meetings in a chapter that is operating properly. Imagine the time spent on standards meetings in a chapter where risk management is an issue.

As for not being a volunteer, this speaks volumes. Having volunteered makes me see things very differently. Go volunteer for your org and talk to me about your opinions in 15 years. As 15 years ago my opinions were different too. It's a tough job but someone's gotta do it. But it is incredibly rewarding too. Love my chapter women with everything.
  #22  
Old 09-28-2018, 01:20 AM
APhi2KD APhi2KD is offline
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God, I hate that song. Thanks for that.
I do find it interesting who does what and why and how (though of course we’ll never get those answers in this case), but I’m naturally curious (and nosy). I personally haven’t been on either side of a review and I’m sure it is very hard, point taken. My daughter would be destroyed if that ever happened to her chapter.

But, wondering what happened in this case is very different than taking delight in it.

Last edited by APhi2KD; 09-28-2018 at 01:22 AM. Reason: Emoji fail
  #23  
Old 09-29-2018, 11:55 AM
AZTheta AZTheta is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
On a completely other note related to your earworm I AM GOING TO SEE RONNIE BOBBY RICKY AND MIKE AND I AM SO EXCITED.

And yes I am jealous. Talk about the best beat ever (Poison) and ... Okay I will refrain b/c I've been really good about not derailing other peoples' threads. For a while now. Not that anyone noticed.

Just one last comment: saw Amos Lee Thursday night. Oh. My. Stars. SWOON. Fabulous. That is all.
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  #24  
Old 09-29-2018, 02:29 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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I saw them two years ago to make up for seeing them at age 10 without Bobby Brown. Worth it.
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  #25  
Old 09-29-2018, 09:08 PM
sigmagirl2000 sigmagirl2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZTheta View Post
And yes I am jealous. Talk about the best beat ever (Poison) and ... Okay I will refrain b/c I've been really good about not derailing other peoples' threads. For a while now. Not that anyone noticed.

Just one last comment: saw Amos Lee Thursday night. Oh. My. Stars. SWOON. Fabulous. That is all.
You have been stellar at not derailing threads.... I've noticed!
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