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  #31  
Old 07-02-2017, 11:05 PM
Sen's Revenge Sen's Revenge is offline
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Is your FSL AD a member of an MGC org?
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  #32  
Old 07-03-2017, 11:18 AM
GreekOne GreekOne is offline
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You sound like you are a genuine caring, concerned person. If you don't do everything in your power (calls, letters, etc) to try and shine a light on what you feel is inappropriate this will stay with you forever. God forbid that someone is hurt down the road as a result of whatever you deem the problem. I have been a member of three different alumnae chapters over the years and every time I moved, they were complete strangers. However, those women quickly became friends. While you may not see the value in that now, you may as you find yourself in a new city down the road. I would work from within to be a change agent.
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  #33  
Old 07-03-2017, 12:17 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge View Post
Is your FSL AD a member of an MGC org?
This. Some people think that anything short of not initiating someone 5 minutes after they receive their bid is hazing.

Has your organization (on a national level) struggled with disaffiliation and member retention? Have a lot of chapters been closed for risk management issues? Are universities reluctant to recognize your group because of its practices? Those would be a better indication of whether your org is truly hazing than an AD who sounds like they drank the kool-aid and who thinks any way other than the way their conference does it is wrong.

If you have your own personal issues with your group, then working them out somehow before you enter the FSL field is imperative. But that doesn't mean your whole org should get thrown under the bus.
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  #34  
Old 07-03-2017, 12:42 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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I have chatted with the OP offline. I'm not going to reveal anything I think OP would rather leave unsaid. There were 4 items that concern her. NONE of them have anything to do with physical hazing. ALL 4 of them are done by various groups -I'm including NPC, IFC and NPHC groups of which I have knowledge as told to me by friends/relatives who are members of some of those groups. So I am not surprised that she is getting different answers from different people in Greek Life because they all belong to different groups. That being said, my group forbids two of them as we have determined that they might,maybe,possibly could be considered psychological hazing by some women. NONE of them are "specifically" listed in the information Kevin posted though in the NPC statement on hazing anything that could cause discomfort or embarrassment is banned. So,what we have is someone who is concerned about all 4 things grouped together which made/make her uncomfortable. And she should be respected for her feelings even if some of us would not be uncomfortable with those activities. Hope this helps!
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  #35  
Old 07-03-2017, 02:16 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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To be clear, that was the FIPG statement on hazing. I don't pretend to know anything about any sort of NPC anything.
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  #36  
Old 07-03-2017, 02:32 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
To be clear, that was the FIPG statement on hazing. I don't pretend to know anything about any sort of NPC anything.
I think we are all clear on that multiple times over. I was just using that as a reference point for lists of activities.
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  #37  
Old 07-03-2017, 09:13 PM
7Silver17 7Silver17 is offline
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Exclamation Reply to Sen's Revenge & GreekOne

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
This. Some people think that anything short of not initiating someone 5 minutes after they receive their bid is hazing.

Has your organization (on a national level) struggled with disaffiliation and member retention? Have a lot of chapters been closed for risk management issues? Are universities reluctant to recognize your group because of its practices? Those would be a better indication of whether your org is truly hazing than an AD who sounds like they drank the kool-aid and who thinks any way other than the way their conference does it is wrong.

If you have your own personal issues with your group, then working them out somehow before you enter the FSL field is imperative. But that doesn't mean your whole org should get thrown under the bus.
To Sen's Revenge & GreekOne,

My FSL AD is from NPHC.
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  #38  
Old 07-03-2017, 09:16 PM
7Silver17 7Silver17 is offline
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Unhappy Reply to 33girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
This. Some people think that anything short of not initiating someone 5 minutes after they receive their bid is hazing.

Has your organization (on a national level) struggled with disaffiliation and member retention? Have a lot of chapters been closed for risk management issues? Are universities reluctant to recognize your group because of its practices? Those would be a better indication of whether your org is truly hazing than an AD who sounds like they drank the kool-aid and who thinks any way other than the way their conference does it is wrong.

If you have your own personal issues with your group, then working them out somehow before you enter the FSL field is imperative. But that doesn't mean your whole org should get thrown under the bus.
Not a single chapter had ever been responsible or have been shut down for any reason. Chapters have just naturally died out from lack of membership. Most disaffiliation reasons that I know of have been members not joining for the right reasons and even members doing things they are not supposed to do (e.g. stealing money, etc.). But of course, when it comes to national numbers on disaffiliation, I have no idea. No undergrad actives have ever been notified of those statistics or anything of the like.
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  #39  
Old 07-03-2017, 09:24 PM
7Silver17 7Silver17 is offline
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Also, I do not mind talking about what my organization does, especially since I am doing this for educational purposes, but would respectfully request that it is inquired through a private message. After receiving different answers on what hazing is, I myself feel awkwardly confused so I do not mind having a discussion about it, privately messaged, of course.
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  #40  
Old 07-03-2017, 09:42 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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How do you think your ability to work with MCG groups in a professional capacity will be impacted if it's known that you chose to disaffiliate from your organization?
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  #41  
Old 07-03-2017, 11:54 PM
7Silver17 7Silver17 is offline
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Post Recent thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
How do you think your ability to work with MCG groups in a professional capacity will be impacted if it's known that you chose to disaffiliate from your organization?
I recently thought about this to consider and while I honestly and personally believe there would be no change, I currently feel forced to stay in the organization for only employment purposes. If my current FSL AD knew about my disaffiliation, they would probably either ask me to find another job at worst, which is why I feel like I cannot cut ties just yet. My previous AD even told me that employers in FSL prefer someone associated with an organization.

I do feel like I need to give it some more thought, but my personal thoughts about the possible/potential hazing aren't just the only reasons for me thinking of disaffiliating.

Highly suggested by a close individual to stay in the organization at least on paper until my time working in Greek Life is up.

Also, I am very passionate about Greek Life regardless if I stay in my own organization or not. I just have also been researching other organizations all throughout my undergrad and I do feel like that in itself may be a sign for me to leave search for another and hopefully, permanent home in the future. Not a sure thing, but it was always on my mind.

Last edited by 7Silver17; 07-04-2017 at 12:01 AM.
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  #42  
Old 07-04-2017, 01:22 AM
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AZTheta AZTheta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Silver17 View Post
I recently thought about this to consider and while I honestly and personally believe there would be no change, I currently feel forced to stay in the organization for only employment purposes. If my current FSL AD knew about my disaffiliation, they would probably either ask me to find another job at worst, which is why I feel like I cannot cut ties just yet. My previous AD even told me that employers in FSL prefer someone associated with an organization.

I do feel like I need to give it some more thought, but my personal thoughts about the possible/potential hazing aren't just the only reasons for me thinking of disaffiliating.

Highly suggested by a close individual to stay in the organization at least on paper until my time working in Greek Life is up.

Also, I am very passionate about Greek Life regardless if I stay in my own organization or not. I just have also been researching other organizations all throughout my undergrad and I do feel like that in itself may be a sign for me to leave search for another and hopefully, permanent home in the future. Not a sure thing, but it was always on my mind.
Know what? I think it's time to stop posting about this on GreekChat.

If you still need to talk about it, then take it to PMs. Discretion is your friend, despite being undervalued these days.
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  #43  
Old 07-04-2017, 10:19 AM
*winter* *winter* is offline
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Ok, I'm going to jump into this one.

I'm not NPC or MGC but a service organization...and I joined quite some time ago. Fall 2000, to be exact.

Well, when we were a pledge (called such) we did a lot! We had "pledge books" and interviewed every sister in the sorority (fortunately it was small). We had mandatory service hours and we had to work as a pledge class to complete a project for the sisterhood. We had to earn points to be initiated.

I did all of these things with a smile, no psychological damage, and went on to enjoy my time in the sorority.

Fast forward nine years to discovering GC...all of a sudden, here are all the fun activities we did, and they're being listed as HAZING! Now I can take this one of two ways: I can think OMG I WAS HAZED! Or I can really question some of the things the new hazing rules cover (and we could, and have debated this all day, but that's for another thread).

I'm not saying the scenario is the exact same as yours- it may not be. And I'm fairly certain all of these things have been phased out by now (in my group). The point is, it's up to you to decide what you want to do with this information. If someone could get hurt, by all means, try to put an end to it. That's the most important thing. If that's not an issue, the it's up to you to decide how to proceed. I mean- turn on the news. Someone's GLO is on there all the time for doing (insert dangerous/stupid/overzealous thing) every other day. I doubt anyone is judging those alumni members over these sorts of issues (even when something really serious happens- and visit the Risk Management forum- it's quite often, sadly).

I think the bigger question is, is this whole career the right choice for you? You're lukewarm about Greek Life, it doesn't seem like you can list a lot of benefits you've gotten from it, you don't like your own organization, and if you disaffiliate, you will be potentially hurting yourself professionally. I just wonder what attracted you to a GL position in the first place?
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