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  #31  
Old 08-30-2015, 08:38 PM
aggieAXO aggieAXO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000 View Post
That must have been pre-RFM. The situation as you've described simply isn't how RFM works. Quota isn't set under RFM until bid matching is complete.
Yes-1992, way befor RFM.
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  #32  
Old 08-30-2015, 08:43 PM
tcsparky tcsparky is offline
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I'm a little confused. If she was on B's first list, then B could NOT have made quota before getting to her name.

She would have had to be on both group's second list and they both reached quota before getting to her name, regardless of how she had listed them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation View Post
Some people think that cross-cutting is a myth. It existed in a big way pre-RFM. This happened when a girl would rank sorority A as #1 and B as #2 but she would be on B's first list and A's second one. Girls would end up bidless some of the time.
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  #33  
Old 08-30-2015, 08:46 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Oh man. I am not explaining this well but I know exactly what I mean! It's all in the order she listed them in her card.
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  #34  
Old 08-30-2015, 09:13 PM
DubaiSis DubaiSis is offline
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Let me see if I can take a stab at it. And I think it best if everyone forgets or at least never ever again repeats how things worked pre RFM (since all it does is confuse people).
Forgetting the part about quota being adjusted to find the best matching rates, and way over-simplifying, quota is 50. Each chapter has 75 girls on their list. Rushee has attended 2 preference parties and put both on her bid list.
Scenario 1: Rushee is in sorority A's top 50 and has sorority A as her #1. Match!
Scenario 2: Rushee is # 55 on sorority A's list. Sorority A did not match with 5 of their top 50. Rushee has now bumped up to spot #50. They are #1 on her list. Yeah! Match.
Scenario 3: Rushee is #58 on Sorority A's list but they completed quota at #55 on their list. She will not be on sorority A's initial bid list. See below about QA's.
Scenario 4: continuing from 3, Rushee is in the top 50 on Sorority B's list. Match!
Scenario 5: continuing from 3, Rushee is #55 on Sorority B's list. They lose 5 girls to other chapters so she is now their #50. Match!
Scenario 6: continuing from 3 Rushee is #55 on Sorority B's list. They fill their quota at #54. She will not be on Sorority B's initial bid list. See below about QA's.
Quota additions: So rushee is not on either chapter's initial bid list. HOWEVER, she did follow the rules and maximized her options, putting both chapters on her list. Here's where it gets tricky (the only part so far that actually IS tricky). She will absolutely be placed on one or the other's list. Which one will be determined by the RFM specialist and The Machine. If one of these chapters is smaller than the other, likely she will go to that one. But the system might have been set to put her in her higher choice, sorority A, or it might have been set to put her in the chapter that ranked her higher, sorority B. My understanding is this process is determined (and completely secret) differently at different schools.

But the part that is absolutely critical to remember is that 1-both chapters absolutely wanted her on their list so the fact that she's a QA is completely irrelevant and 2-nobody in the chapter (save a very very few people) know exactly where the girl ended on the list so the sisters don't know that was a QA, 3-the method of deciding whether she gets A or B is a secret and no amount of prognosticating or begging is going to help you figure that out and 4-there is no way to game the system to ensure you get in A over B. Not maximizing your options won't work because if you weren't on their list when it was your turn, and you didn't maximize your options, you aren't eligible to be a QA. So you are better off putting both on your list AS LONG AS you are willing to take either chapter. If you put both but would rather have your eyes poked out than be in B, then you are better off not maximizing your options because then you are eligible for informal rushing later on. If you decline a bid, then you are not. It's all right there in that official contract you signed after you finished your pref parties.
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  #35  
Old 08-30-2015, 09:23 PM
sigmagirl2000 sigmagirl2000 is offline
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Excellent work, DubaiSis.
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  #36  
Old 08-30-2015, 09:49 PM
Loyally Kappa Loyally Kappa is offline
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Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000 View Post
Excellent work, DubaiSis.
I still want to make a moving picture of it actively happening ...
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  #37  
Old 08-30-2015, 09:51 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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And we want to see it!
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  #38  
Old 08-30-2015, 09:57 PM
DubaiSis DubaiSis is offline
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Originally Posted by Loyally Kappa View Post
I still want to make a moving picture of it actively happening ...
You would be looking at a computer monitor for probably 1 second. None of this is done by hand anymore. The computer will take 1000 girls (or whatever), go with the suggested quota and run the list. Then it will bump it up 1 and see what happens, then drop it 1 and see what happens, then up by 2, then 3, then 4, etc. It will run the scenarios and then drop in the quota additions and spit out 15 bid lists (or whatever). It would be like watching an Excel spreadsheet figure a math total. While there IS a process, it happens so fast, as far as you know, you ask for a total and it spits out a total.
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  #39  
Old 08-30-2015, 10:20 PM
Ag_Sis Ag_Sis is offline
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/ny...cess.html?_r=4

This article helped me understand "mutual selection." A lightbulb went off in my head when I read it the first time.
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  #40  
Old 08-30-2015, 10:49 PM
Loyally Kappa Loyally Kappa is offline
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Originally Posted by DubaiSis View Post
You would be looking at a computer monitor for probably 1 second. None of this is done by hand anymore. The computer will take 1000 girls (or whatever), go with the suggested quota and run the list. Then it will bump it up 1 and see what happens, then drop it 1 and see what happens, then up by 2, then 3, then 4, etc. It will run the scenarios and then drop in the quota additions and spit out 15 bid lists (or whatever). It would be like watching an Excel spreadsheet figure a math total. While there IS a process, it happens so fast, as far as you know, you ask for a total and it spits out a total.
Ah, yes ... the devil is in the details. However, I believe that the reason so many folks still don't understand the process is because the "instant answer" is akin to the Wizard of Oz telling Dorothy, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

Just because the computer can do it for us doesn't mean we should lose sight of being able to know WHY one is a snail and ten is a crab! I am a math major, and I used game theory (which bid matching is based on) when I wrote my dissertation. One of my committee members said "you write like you are opening Russian dolls." Not one person on my committee was a math major, but yet I convinced them all that I should stand on the philosopher's stone and be hooded.
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  #41  
Old 08-30-2015, 11:12 PM
DubaiSis DubaiSis is offline
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Originally Posted by Loyally Kappa View Post
Ah, yes ... the devil is in the details. However, I believe that the reason so many folks still don't understand the process is because the "instant answer" is akin to the Wizard of Oz telling Dorothy, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"
True. But the part I was contesting was the WATCHING part, which would be nothing like those days I promised not to mention where a room full of old broads stood in a circle with a pile of index cards with rushee names on them.
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  #42  
Old 08-31-2015, 12:04 AM
Loyally Kappa Loyally Kappa is offline
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Originally Posted by DubaiSis View Post
"Traveling - It leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller. ~ Ibn Battuta
MATH leaves you speechless and then turns you into a storyteller!
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  #43  
Old 08-31-2015, 06:28 AM
carnation carnation is offline
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Originally Posted by DubaiSis View Post
True. But the part I was contesting was the WATCHING part, which would be nothing like those days I promised not to mention where a room full of old broads stood in a circle with a pile of index cards with rushee names on them.
No, we sat in a trapezoid and we were all under 35!

Had to point that out.
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  #44  
Old 08-31-2015, 06:35 AM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Originally Posted by DubaiSis View Post
True. But the part I was contesting was the WATCHING part, which would be nothing like those days I promised not to mention where a room full of old broads stood in a circle with a pile of index cards with rushee names on them.
A video of how hand bid matching works would serve to show people how the computer does it these days. It's the same principle.
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  #45  
Old 08-31-2015, 12:25 PM
DubaiSis DubaiSis is offline
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I would have LOVED to see it in action. Now it's got to be pretty boring (the chapters send their lists electronically as I understand it so no interaction whatsoever) but sitting in the crowded trapezoidal room full of old broads (in their 30's LOL) pulling shenanigans (as I'm told there were plenty of) would have been fascinating. And SLOW. It took HOURS to run through that list over and over and over again. Can you imagine going through Bama's list, Aardvark, Amy. No match. Anderson, Betty. No match. Appleton, Carrie. Match Alpha Phi. (one name moves up on Alpha Phi's list). Arenson, Debbie. No match. Times 1500 names, and going through the list maybe 30 times? Zulu, Rebecca. No match. Aardvark, Amy. Match Kappa Alpha Theta. (one name moves on on Theta's list. Anderson, Betty. No match. Areson, Debbie. No match. Atchinson, Suzie. No match. Ayers, Mary. Match Zeta Tau Alpha. (one name moves up on ZTA's list).
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