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  #1  
Old 06-09-2015, 06:40 PM
Size_Small Size_Small is offline
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Would you pledge a sorority known for dirty rushing?

Hello ladies of GC!

I will be attending an SEC university in the fall, and while it does not have a crazy Alabama-like competitive rush, it's not a cake walk either. There is a certain sorority at my school which is known as a very solid chapter, with high GPA, good reputation, lots of on-campus participation and leadership, etc. It's popular with the studious and conservative girls in my neighborhood/High School, and I think I would be happy with a bid here if offered. The only "problem" is that this chapter also has a reputation for aggressive recruitment tactics/dirty rushing. They've actually been fined by the university and gotten in trouble by a local Panhellenic group before, but they've never been on probation. Some of my older friends from high school activities have confirmed some of the rumors, and even now that Summer is starting and silence is in effect, I've noticed a few questionable things. My question to you, ladies of GC, is would you let this questionable recruiting tactic prevent yourself from preffing this particular chapter if you happen to go that far? I'd really like some of your input and advice! It would definitely be a change from the gossip and hyperbole from some of my very bored and very 18 year old friends.
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  #2  
Old 06-09-2015, 06:54 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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You need to quit listening to gossip! That's my only advice.
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  #3  
Old 06-09-2015, 09:23 PM
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thetalady thetalady is offline
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Originally Posted by Size_Small View Post
Hello ladies of GC!

I will be attending an SEC university in the fall, and while it does not have a crazy Alabama-like competitive rush, it's not a cake walk either. There is a certain sorority at my school which is known as a very solid chapter, with high GPA, good reputation, lots of on-campus participation and leadership, etc. It's popular with the studious and conservative girls in my neighborhood/High School, and I think I would be happy with a bid here if offered. The only "problem" is that this chapter also has a reputation for aggressive recruitment tactics/dirty rushing. They've actually been fined by the university and gotten in trouble by a local Panhellenic group before, but they've never been on probation. Some of my older friends from high school activities have confirmed some of the rumors, and even now that Summer is starting and silence is in effect, I've noticed a few questionable things. My question to you, ladies of GC, is would you let this questionable recruiting tactic prevent yourself from preffing this particular chapter if you happen to go that far? I'd really like some of your input and advice! It would definitely be a change from the gossip and hyperbole from some of my very bored and very 18 year old friends.
Silence has started already? Wow... that is REALLY strict. Yes, some chapters are far more "aggressive" in their rush tactics. It might not be strictly by the rules, but I guess I would consider how far over the line they go.
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:08 PM
1964Alum 1964Alum is offline
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Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
You need to quit listening to gossip! That's my only advice.
I agree. Sometimes a form of "Dirty Rush" is spreading the rumor around that another GLO dirty rushes!

I was wavering between two groups up to and including pref. Both very well respected groups. One of those groups gave me an oral bid at pref, which stunned me. I went with the other one, which played it straight. We had deferred rush until our Sophomore year, and both groups had rushed me hard for a semester before formal rush in the fall and throughout the summer. While I didn't doubt the sincerity of the oral bid, I did lose a bit of respect for that group and wondered if they all did that! I'm glad I went with my heart and my gut. I later learned that we bent over backward to avoid any impropriety.
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  #5  
Old 06-09-2015, 10:35 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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The problem is that not everyone understands what's allowed and what isn't. Some people think "oh, I hope to see you tomorrow!" is promising a bid. It isn't. It's being polite. PNMs don't usually understand what all the ins and outs are.
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  #6  
Old 06-09-2015, 11:45 PM
Size_Small Size_Small is offline
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Thank you to all the ladies who took the time to reply. I'm not sure what Titchou is referring to as "gossip," but this particular chapter was fined by the university in the past for breaking recruitment rules (I'm assuming this means that they "dirty rushed"). In addition, I realize that each school has their own rules, but at my school, making disparaging remarks about another sorority (which they have done) directly breaks the published recruitment rules. My neighbor went through rush two years ago and they told her "God has brought you here to be a part of our sisterhood" and "you belong here" (she actually ended up preffing them regardless). Sorry if I got the terminology wrong, it's not silence in the strict sense during the Summer, but no recruiting or social media contact is allowed between actives and PNMs. However, this house gets around it by having moms and alumnae host dinner parties and cookouts and use social media to recruit. I've already been invited to a graduation party where an alum told us girls "when you see what we've got prepared for you girls, you won't be able to sign your pref card fast enough." In addition, during the actual silence the week before recruitment, moms will call on PNM moms, aggressively trying to lobby their sorority.
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  #7  
Old 06-09-2015, 11:52 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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1) You know what happens when you assume. Dirty rushing is not the only violation of recruitment rules!
2) NPC rules prohibit fines for violations so I doubt the U fined them.
3) I don't see anything wrong with what the girl was told 2 years ago.
4) Many cities have these parties in the summer and I wouldn't dare denigrate a group for doing it. If you already know the person, silence is pretty well tossed out the window.
5) No problem with what you were told about the grad party.
6) Don't have a problem with the moms either.

Like I said, ignore the gossip because a lot of the above is simply that.

These are my personal takes on it and if you find fault with all of them, then maybe you need to pass on that group. Now, why don't you answer my question about your post on the other topic where you state you WILL be attending an SEC school but you seem to know exactly what they were for round one and have for several years?
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  #8  
Old 06-10-2015, 01:04 AM
Size_Small Size_Small is offline
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1. No, you're right I shouldn't assume. Maybe dirty rushing is not the only violation of recruitment rules but surely a violation of recruitment rules = dirty rushing?
3. The Recruitment Rules (in the recruitment guidebook which is public info) specifically forbid phrases such as "you belong here" "I want to be your big sister" "See you tomorrow" and "we want you." Per the rules of MY school, what the active told my friend 2 years ago was a recruitment violation.
5. The alumna at the grad party told us that we would be receiving an invite to pref round at the least. I'm pretty sure that is a violation of recruitment rules at most schools.

Perhaps the school you went to or advise has different rules Titchou, but it's clear that this sorority has broken some rules. I have no reason to lie or speak badly of them. In fact I've admitted that my neighbor and good friend for a number of years is a member of this sorority and I have admitted that I think this is a very good house. The point of my post was not to "prove" that they dirty rushed but rather, accepting that fact, could you ultimately still choose to pref them in the end? I thank 1964Alum and you, Titchou, for your honest take on the matter.

As for your doubts, I hope I answered them in the other post. It's not too hard to figure out what girls wear to opening rounds, especially with social media being so proliferate. As I stated above, I do have neighbors and high school friends involved in my university's Greek Life, so stalking their albums for sorority activities is very easy!
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  #9  
Old 06-10-2015, 01:48 AM
Pingyang Pingyang is offline
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Originally Posted by Size_Small View Post
1. No, you're right I shouldn't assume. Maybe dirty rushing is not the only violation of recruitment rules but surely a violation of recruitment rules = dirty rushing?
3. The Recruitment Rules (in the recruitment guidebook which is public info) specifically forbid phrases such as "you belong here" "I want to be your big sister" "See you tomorrow" and "we want you." Per the rules of MY school, what the active told my friend 2 years ago was a recruitment violation.
5. The alumna at the grad party told us that we would be receiving an invite to pref round at the least. I'm pretty sure that is a violation of recruitment rules at most schools.

Perhaps the school you went to or advise has different rules Titchou, but it's clear that this sorority has broken some rules. I have no reason to lie or speak badly of them. In fact I've admitted that my neighbor and good friend for a number of years is a member of this sorority and I have admitted that I think this is a very good house. The point of my post was not to "prove" that they dirty rushed but rather, accepting that fact, could you ultimately still choose to pref them in the end? I thank 1964Alum and you, Titchou, for your honest take on the matter.

As for your doubts, I hope I answered them in the other post. It's not too hard to figure out what girls wear to opening rounds, especially with social media being so proliferate. As I stated above, I do have neighbors and high school friends involved in my university's Greek Life, so stalking their albums for sorority activities is very easy!

No re: 1 (above). Your logic is flawed. Instead of dirty rushing and violating recruitment rules, let's consider DWIs and getting arrested. If so, your statement might look like this:

"Maybe [DWI] is not the only [way to get arrested] but surely [getting arrested] = [DWI]?"

If someone was arrested, based on this logic, then you would say that "surely" it was because of DWI. But what if they were arrested for shoplifting? Or assault? Or a bench warrant for having too many unpaid parking tickets? Or something else?

I hope that makes it clearer for you. Here's a sorority-specific example, based on my understanding of "dirty rushing":

Panhellenic recruitment rules state that "Panhellenic sororities are not to exceed $10,000.00 in the purchase, rental, and donation of any new decorations for all periods of formal membership recruitment." Sorority ABC knew that it was getting close to the $10,000 amount with decorations, and thought it had accounted for everything--but someone forgot to include tax and delivery fees when making the calculations, and they ended up spending $10,009.92 because of the mistake, which they didn't realize until they started tallying up the receipts. Whoops, recruitment violation...but I wouldn't describe that kind of mistake as "dirty rushing," even though it was a violation of recruitment rules to spend more than $10,000 on decorations, as it was unintentional and did not involve bid promising, gossiping about other chapters, breaking silence rules, or anything directly impacting the PNM experience.

How do you define "dirty rushing"? Maybe the term is used differently than at schools I've attended. If you are using the phrase as a synonym for breaking any recruitment rule, then yes, any violation would be "dirty rushing" by your definition, but you would be incorrect in saying that "dirty rushing is not the only violation of recruitment rules."



Anyway, ultimately, you'll have to come to your own conclusions about where you're comfortable. If you're not comfortable with the chapter because of what was told to your friend when she went through recruitment, then you'll have to take that into consideration when ranking chapters. And it might not be relevant in the end, if that chapter doesn't invite you back at some point in the process. Maybe you should cross that bridge when you come to it?
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  #10  
Old 06-10-2015, 09:09 AM
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Sciencewoman Sciencewoman is offline
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I'm curious about the "no fines" rule, because the chapters at my university definitely get fined, and I know of a nearby Big 10 university that fines, too. That chapter budgets for fines, because Panhellenic always gets chapters "for something." Usually it is decor related, but sometimes "bid promising" in the form of borderline comments comes up. Some people think "I hope to see you tomorrow" before pref is bid promising, for example.
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  #11  
Old 06-10-2015, 09:31 AM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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My 18 year old self probably would not have been bothered by a chapter dirty rushing if I had fallen in love with the chapter and wanted to join and was offered a bid. My vindictive self would not have been alright with the dirty rushing if they bid promised me or one of my friends and then the bid did not materialize.

What is your purpose in asking what our opinion is? Do you need advice on how to deal with the summer communication you are engaged in with chapter members and alumnae? Are you concerned with potential negative impact for you if found out by other chapters? Do you want us to advise you on believing (or not) the pretty things the chapter or alums are telling you?
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  #12  
Old 06-10-2015, 02:07 PM
DubaiSis DubaiSis is offline
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What I would say is go through rush, don't put your emotional eggs in one basket and see where the chips fall (sorry for the mixed metaphor). Dirty rushing, IMO, and where it would be a problem to a rushee here is if the chapter in question says "drop your other houses and SIP us. You definitely have a bid from us." You should not do that, particularly on the advice of a chapter member. Regardless of your best friend being in the chapter and you knowing and loving half the house, there are way too many variables for you to be guaranteed a spot.

If their dirty rushing was talking bad about another chapter, then you as a rushee should know that is not kosher and take it for what it is. If the dirty rushing was separating you from the other rushees so as to give you the hard sell, if it makes you feel uncomfortable, then you need to speak up. If you love the attention, just keep in mind that no matter how much they seem to love you, they still can't guarantee you a bid. No ifs ands or buts.

Rush infractions, by the way, can mean they turned in their bid lists 5 minutes late or their name tags were too big or they spent too much money on food. I don't think anyone would consider that dirty rushing. Do NOT read more into it than it is. At a huge school, it is really hard for a sorority to dirty rush in a way that could actually affect anyone's outcome.

So yes, I would pledge a house that is accused of dirty rushing. I however would go through the rush process very careful not to have a them or nothing attitude because you could very well end up with nothing and the day after rush is over you will be very sorry you didn't keep a clear head.

Best of luck.
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  #13  
Old 06-10-2015, 02:21 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Personally some of the things you mentioned would kind of squick me out.

But then again, Matthew McConaghey squicks my best friend out and I couldn't disagree more. Different strokes for different folks, in different situations.

And "we hope to see you tomorrow" or "God brought you to us" is not the same as "we will give you a bid." The first are excitement and hyperbole, the second is an outright promise that I definitely would run the other way from.

ETA: It sounds like you're afraid of ending up in this group and not having a choice about it. You always have a choice.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:06 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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I'd be freaked out by a chapter telling me that God wanted me to go to their chapter. But honestly, at 18, I probably wouldn't have cared if I was dirty rushed.

With regards to fines from the MOI:

Monetary fines shall be acceptable only for a measurable offense of the Panhellenic’s governing documents or stated membership recruitment rules.
• The amounts of monetary fines shall be predetermined by a vote of the College Panhellenic Council and stated in the Panhellenic standing rules and/or membership recruitment rules prior to the beginning of recruitment.
• Examples of reasons for monetary fines may be limited to:
o Late recruitment event invitation lists
o Recruitment events that exceed designated event times
o Prohibited postings on social media outlets
o Lack of required chapter attendance at Panhellenic-sponsored event
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:21 PM
sigmagirl2000 sigmagirl2000 is offline
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Quote:
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I'd be freaked out by a chapter telling me that God wanted me to go to their chapter.

TRUTH.
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