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  #211  
Old 12-05-2014, 12:08 AM
honorgal honorgal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil View Post
That is not what is happening.
Of course it is happening.
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  #212  
Old 12-05-2014, 12:25 AM
honorgal honorgal is offline
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Originally Posted by DrPhil View Post
I wonder what came of this "movement" since 2011?

http://www.calcasa.org/wp-content/up...e-of-Rape1.pdf
I think it went down the drain when the feminist movement started stripping all college men of their due process rights. See the Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights’ (OCR’s) April 4, 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter for details.
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  #213  
Old 12-05-2014, 12:30 AM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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No, that isn't what is happening. But people who are fearful of this ruining their consensual silent orgasm can sign a contract with their partner.

When all else fails, blame the feminist movement. This thread is exactly how I called it pages ago.
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  #214  
Old 12-05-2014, 12:34 AM
1964Alum 1964Alum is offline
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[QUOTE=DrPhil;2301425]And there are women and men who are silent because being vocal or making gestures of disapproval could result in a much more painful experience.

This is a flashback to rape accusations being dismissed if the woman (or man) alleged victim orgasms.

****
I don't know if this article has been posted:

Rape culture on campus: The silence of men

THIS! And what I am hoping to see from the GLOs for men. With no ifs, ands or buts or hairsplitting.

"
I wish I was writing the article, "Meet the College Fraternity Brothers Who Are Starting a Revolution Against Campus Sexual Assault," but that would mean that fraternities would have to quickly usher themselves into the 21st century. All it takes is a few inspired, outspoken individuals to start a movement against sexual violence, as victims of sexual violence have shown. It is time for fraternity brothers to join them, to use their strength and numbers to speak out against rape culture and work to change it. "
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  #215  
Old 12-05-2014, 01:01 AM
Low D Flat Low D Flat is offline
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Quote:
And there are women and men who are silent because being vocal or making gestures of disapproval could result in a much more painful experience.
Sure, but the Swarthmore victim didn't make any sort of claim to that effect. I'm taking her version of events at face value. She didn't say that she was scared to say anything, or even that she gave up because she was certain that nothing would deter him. She said she was too tired to speak a word to make her wishes clear, which doesn't make any sense.

Quote:
But people who are fearful of this ruining their consensual silent orgasm can sign a contract with their partner.
That wouldn't have any effect in criminal court. You can't commit by contract to have sex with someone. You always have a right to withdraw consent (which is as it should be, but means that there's no way to contract around this problem).

I think false or unreasonable accusations are a much, much smaller problem than rape. I just don't think that we can address the rape problem by applying the term to encounters like this. If anything, cases like the Swarthmore case may create backlash that makes it more difficult to address the real issue.
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  #216  
Old 12-05-2014, 01:39 AM
honorgal honorgal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low D Flat View Post
Sure, but the Swarthmore victim didn't make any sort of claim to that effect. I'm taking her version of events at face value. She didn't say that she was scared to say anything, or even that she gave up because she was certain that nothing would deter him. She said she was too tired to speak a word to make her wishes clear, which doesn't make any sense.



That wouldn't have any effect in criminal court. You can't commit by contract to have sex with someone. You always have a right to withdraw consent (which is as it should be, but means that there's no way to contract around this problem).

I think false or unreasonable accusations are a much, much smaller problem than rape. I just don't think that we can address the rape problem by applying the term to encounters like this. If anything, cases like the Swarthmore case may create backlash that makes it more difficult to address the real issue.
One issue, as I see it, is that false accusations are a much smaller problem, but they clearly aren't a zero problem. They do exist and any given complaint has the potential to be false. Without fair and thorough fact finding and due process for the accused, we can't assume an individual accusation is true simply because most are. The foundation of due process is the presumption of innocence for the accused. Does this imply that the accuser is lying?
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  #217  
Old 12-05-2014, 01:42 AM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low D Flat View Post
Sure, but the Swarthmore victim didn't make any sort of claim to that effect.
The Swarthmore accuser also didn't say that when her boyfriend pulls her panties down, and she just watches silently, that means "yes, keep going."

Aren't we all typing about larger dynamics that aren't limited to Swarthmore?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Low C Flat
That wouldn't have any effect in criminal court.
That was my sarcastic way of telling silent consenters to get over it.
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  #218  
Old 12-05-2014, 01:49 AM
honorgal honorgal is offline
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Originally Posted by Low D Flat View Post
She said she was too tired to speak a word to make her wishes clear, which doesn't make any sense.
. Sadly, it makes sense in the context of the resigned helpless victimology of the new feminism. She needs some assertiveness training.
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  #219  
Old 12-05-2014, 02:33 AM
Low D Flat Low D Flat is offline
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Quote:
Aren't we all typing about larger dynamics that aren't limited to Swarthmore?
Of course. That's why I'm concerned about the larger impact of a well publicized case. The UVA/RS case is particularly important because of its profile.
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  #220  
Old 12-05-2014, 02:34 PM
pinksequins pinksequins is offline
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Rolling Stone has issued an apology.
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  #221  
Old 12-05-2014, 02:40 PM
pinksequins pinksequins is offline
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One sad outcome is that legitimate claims and journalistic credibility have been compromised. The editor who did not exercise what should be good judgment before going forward with the publication, as well as the reporter, should consider different careers.

Last edited by pinksequins; 12-05-2014 at 02:47 PM.
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  #222  
Old 12-05-2014, 02:50 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Rolling Stone Retracts UVA Story

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...tory/19954293/

This is shocking. If the victim was telling the truth, it seems the reporter just completely mishandled things. If this was the college newspaper, I'd say the reporter should get a break--reporting sexual violence is probably not something they cover in J-school.. but this is the Rolling Stone... a pretty big deal.
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Last edited by Kevin; 12-05-2014 at 02:53 PM.
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  #223  
Old 12-05-2014, 02:59 PM
pinksequins pinksequins is offline
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Yes. More outrageous is that an editor would not have insisted that the other side be investigated prior to publication.
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  #224  
Old 12-05-2014, 03:07 PM
SOM SOM is offline
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Story from Rolling Stone:
To Our Readers:
Last month, Rolling Stone published a story titled "A Rape on Campus" by Sabrina Rubin Erdely, which described a brutal gang rape of a woman named Jackie at a University of Virginia fraternity house; the university's failure to respond to this alleged assault – and the school's troubling history of indifference to many other instances of alleged sexual assaults. The story generated worldwide headlines and much soul-searching at UVA. University president Teresa Sullivan promised a full investigation and also to examine the way the school responds to sexual assault allegations..........In the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in Jackie's account, and we have come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/...#ixzz3L3HeBfBw
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

Last edited by SOM; 12-05-2014 at 04:52 PM.
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  #225  
Old 12-05-2014, 03:09 PM
SOM SOM is offline
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U-Va. fraternity to rebut claims of gang rape in Rolling Stone: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...y.html?hpid=z1

Key elements of Rolling Stone’s U-Va. gang rape allegations in doubt http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...bdc_story.html

Last edited by SOM; 12-05-2014 at 03:56 PM.
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