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  #16  
Old 01-27-2002, 12:07 PM
justamom justamom is offline
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Carnation, you and I have had so many exchanges (and I'm certain there will be many more) on this subject. You really did hit the nail on the head regarding this situation.

This is slightly off topic-One bright point is, if you want to call it that, those girls that are rushing and get cut from the one or two sororities they have focused on will often drop out. At least that's what happened to several I know. This opens up the "spaces" for other girls. In a way, it weeds out those who look upon membership purely as a status symbol rather than a sisterhood within the Greek system. Who knows, it might make the system as a whole stronger.

Back to topic-it's hard to see these young ladies face disappoint-ment, It's even harder in some cases to know what to say when
you can feel their hurt in their posts. If we could do anything to help them understand that it is NO REFLECTION of their worth, it's really a lot of variables and a touch of luck. I'm glad you posted this. I think we all will choose our words more caefully in the future.
JAM
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  #17  
Old 01-27-2002, 01:41 PM
greeklawgirl greeklawgirl is offline
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Red face

This is an issue that never even occurred to me. Thanks for making me think about something from an entirely new perspective!
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2002, 03:07 PM
tridelta4ever tridelta4ever is offline
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Carnation, thanks for bringing this up. I have some strong opinions on this topic, like most of us here.

I have been one of the people who has said "you'll end up where you were meant to" when talking to rushees who are worried about whether they are making the right choice. It's meaningful to me because I truly believe that fate has a way of making things happen for an important reason. My friend Kristin is a good example. She rushed with me and did not receive a bid, although she had a great rush experience. At the time, I couldn't believe it and she was of course very hurt. However, she ended up rushing the next year and ending up in a sorority that she hadn't even entertained the idea of joining the year before. Now she is in the right place and feels the same way I do about her sorority.
~Now, take Corina from UCSC (wishin hopin) - she had a very upsetting rush experience and was, in my opinion, dirty rushed in a way. Now she is on the cusp of something completely new and exciting. Something that would not have existed had she not had that horrible experience with the sorority that did not offer her a bid. Now she has enabled many other women to benefit from sisterhood who would not have ever meshed with the only other NPC sorority on her campus. I think that's amazing. Also, I believe that I ended up where I was meant to. From day 1 of rush, I felt a bond with the women of Tri-Delta more than any of the other great sororities I spent time with. I went into the whole process with an open mind, not even really expecting that I'd get a bid, but when the time came, it was such an emotional experience for me on bid-day because I truly felt that I had found my "home" and my destiny. I still get emotional just thinking about it, and what a special time that was.

Additionally, let me just be honest and say that I do not think that the Greek System is for everyone. To be blunt, if you rush and the sorority you want to be in doesn't have members who click with you enough to offer a bid, why on earth would you want to be there anyway? I would much rather not be in the Greek System at all, than be with people who weren't sure about me. Also, I have friends who I don't think would have enjoyed rush, much less the responsibilities that go along with being in a sorority or fraternity. I'm not in any way implying that I think all Greeks are elite and better than others, just that I absolutely think that not everyone is meant to be Greek.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

By the way, Cutiepie, I loved your post....it really spoke to me.

*Carrie*
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  #19  
Old 01-27-2002, 03:12 PM
James James is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by justamom

This is slightly off topic-One bright point is, if you want to call it that, those girls that are rushing and get cut from the one or two sororities they have focused on will often drop out. At least that's what happened to several I know. This opens up the "spaces" for other girls. In a way, it weeds out those who look upon membership purely as a status symbol rather than a sisterhood within the Greek system. Who knows, it might make the system as a whole stronger.

JAM
Yes, but isn't that the problem we are discussing? These girls focused on sororities that fit their image of themselves or who they want to be, and faced with going somewhere they perceived to be an environment they either wouldn't or woudn't want to fit in, they quit.

I'm a a bit of a jocky guys guy, pretty agressive with decent social skills, I wouldn't want to be forced to join the proverbial audiovisual fraternity with the pocket protectors. Guys that think girls that are 4's on a scale of 1-10 are hot.

Also, Erika's quote, resurected by Zetaluvbunny, is true. It maters a great deal who you hang with. How many of you met your SO's from your social groupings? So the quality of the people and your access to certain things can be greatly dtermined by which group you belong to.

You always see certain Fraternities with the hottest girls, and some always with the appearance handicapped ones. Which is the one you would rather hang with?

And it may not be PC, but for the record that is very important.
IT sounds like panhel has created a pretty flawed system and created inequities in the name of conformity and protection of the weaker.





Also, the quote by
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  #20  
Old 01-27-2002, 03:31 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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I think a lot of the problems with the big Southern schools lie with numbers. With hundreds and hundreds of rushees, it's entirely possible and probable that well over a hundred girls will be overlooked due to sheer numbers.

As I mentioned, a girl from a small town or one where a certain sorority has no current members might be a perfect fit for ABC. All her friends know it and she does too--but the members have 6 days in which to choose girls they haven't met or been allowed to contact over the summer and they're probably going to go after the ones they know or know of, as well as the legacies or those whom the prominent alums push. How many times have I heard members of a "prominent" sorority say about a girl, "I wish I'd known her when she came through rush! I'd put my pin on her!" But they didn't then and the girl was cut.

Many, many girls don't get cut because the members didn't want them. They get cut simply because the sorority didn't know them beforehand and had no way to and the rules say they must cut a certain number each day (which of course, is necessary).

Lately I've had the chance to get acquainted again with several women I knew in college. Several were in what you'd call medium-tier or bottom-tier sororities, I guess. At the time, I never knew that they resented it. Now they discuss it heatedly, how they rushed with high expectations that came crashing down to earth fairly early in rush. How they knew if they got a bid from anyone other than the "Big 6" (Auburn) or the "Big 4" (Arkansas), they could kiss things like Mortar Board or Angel Flight or Miss Homecoming goodbye. How they accepted bids anyway but always desperately envied those who were chosen by the biggies. They don't regret their Greek experiences and made some friends and got nominally involved on campus but they'll always wonder what could've been.

So far, the Greek Chat women who are involved with the big schools are the majority of those who are saying, "Amen!" All this is hard to picture if you went to a school where the sororities rush the PNM. It's a pretty safe bet to say that at SEC schools, the PNM has to impress the sorority.
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  #21  
Old 01-27-2002, 04:09 PM
James James is offline
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Even in some of the smaller Greek Systems I have seen some girls get upset because they pledged a sorority that they wouldn't have normally chosen. some have gotten very bitter and deafiliated or just had a bad time.

Obviously this can be true even if you get the one of your choice, but since you made that choice free and clear you are likely to be less bitter about it.

Resentment and biterness will poison an experience quicker than anything else.
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  #22  
Old 01-27-2002, 08:37 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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No offense to SEC schools, but thank God I didn't go to one LOL

I know what carnation is saying - maybe XYZ is where so and so is meant to be, but when XYZ has 75 legacies with 4.0's come through the door, it might not matter. It's like if I see a sweater in the store that is perfect for me - if there are 10 of it in the store, and the other 10 people who want that sweater come in before me, I'm screwed. And it has nothing to do with me personally.

As far as joining "weak" chapters, or chapters that look like they are going to fold - it is all in what you want. I know some women who joined chapters that closed the semester after they pledged, and they wouldn't trade it for ANYTHING. They still found sisterhood and lasting friendships. It's like that line in Steel Magnolias - "I'd rather have 30 minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special." However, there are women who only want social position and prestige out of a sorority experience. And if that's all you are looking at groups with, you're a user, and a loser. If you want to be in a sorority that just happens to be the most prestigious on campus - because that's who you like the most and feel comfortable with - fine. But I'd like to know how many of these women in the "big 5" or whatever are really happy and close with their sisters, and how many of them are just sucking up their real selves because of the prestige. That's the women the NPC system is supposed to weed out, but unfortunately it doesn't always.
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  #23  
Old 01-27-2002, 09:03 PM
Angels&Arrows Angels&Arrows is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 33girl
But I'd like to know how many of these women in the "big 5" or whatever are really happy and close with their sisters, and how many of them are just sucking up their real selves because of the prestige.
Interestingly enough getting into one of these "big 5" has to do with who you know, what activites you were involved with, your grades and your RECS... most of the young ladies who pledge a strong chapter, at a strong southern school, went to school with the girls in the chapters, or mothers are friends at Jr. League, their fathers golf toghter, they were in the same Sunday School class, etc.

I did not go to an SEC school, but I did go to a mid-size southern school... and those girls who were looking for prestige, normally did not get a bid... because their sisters and their potential new sisters are very close...
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  #24  
Old 01-27-2002, 09:32 PM
CutiePie2000 CutiePie2000 is offline
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Question I don't know what an SEC school is?

Is it South Eastern Conference (just a guess) and if so, which specific universities are those?
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  #25  
Old 01-27-2002, 10:07 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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The Southeast Conference--let me see...Auburn (yeah!), Arkansas (yeah!), Mississippi State (yeah!),Bama, Florida, LSU, Vandy, Kentucky, Georgia, Ole Miss, Tennessee, and South Carolina. But there are other large Southern schools such as Florida State and the University of Texas that have killer rushes..and some smaller schools too, as well as some non-Southern schools like Indiana.

33girl, your sweater analogy is perfect! And as the years go by, we'll have even more girls wanting "that certain sweater" because we'll have more legacies. I couldn't count the chapters I know of who always have more legacies than open spots.
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  #26  
Old 01-27-2002, 11:38 PM
justamom justamom is offline
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33girl-." However, there are women who only want social position and prestige out of a sorority experience. And if that's all you are looking at groups with, you're a user, and a loser. If you want to be in a sorority that just happens to be the most prestigious on campus - because that's who you like the most and feel comfortable with - fine.
No way could I have said it better. Your entire post is on the money.
I don't think anyone can fully comprehend the reality of a competative rush unless you go through it. I had blow by blow descriptions and still am amazed that my daughter really enjoyed it! She was one of the fortunate ones who found true happiness.

GUESS WHAT! She just got back from a GREEK RETREAT! EVERYONE was represented IFC NPC NHPC (is there a male equivalent for IFC?) They were in Mississippi for the weekend. She went on and on about how much she learned. She was so impressed by the reps of NHPC and the way they do their "rush" and the fact that they "live" their ritual daily. Something she would like to see instilled in her org. OOPS should have made another thread. Oh well...
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  #27  
Old 01-27-2002, 11:42 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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I'd love to say I could argue this point, but with no SEC experience, I guess my argument doesn't really hold a lot of weight in this thread. I still believe though, that if you go through recruitment with an open mind, you can find the place you were meant to be in. I'm sorry for those who had awful recruitment experiences, and for all those legacies and qualified women who didn't get a bid where they wanted to go.

As 33girl said, I'm so glad I didn't go to a school with such a politically motivated system. I couldn't have asked for a more fulfilling and enjoyable sorority experience. Yeah, it had ups and downs and yeah, I didn't go to the strongest chapter on campus, even though I did go to their pref party. Who knows if I would've gotten a bid or not? But truly, I couldn't care less...I am where I was meant to go, and if I didn't believe that, I wouldn't continue as an alum to volunteer and bring all that D Phi E has to offer to collegiates.

*stepping off soapbox*
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  #28  
Old 01-28-2002, 02:43 AM
TechAPhi TechAPhi is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by carnation
All this is hard to picture if you went to a school where the sororities rush the PNM. It's a pretty safe bet to say that at SEC schools, the PNM has to impress the sorority.
I read most of this thread not really "getting" it. But the statements above finally encapsulated it for me. The schools I've worked with are nothing like these SEC universities, with their enormous numbers of legacies and the value that is apparently placed on being in the "right" group (however one defines that). I can't even fathom it, to be honest, but at least I can see where you're coming from now. Thanks Carnation!
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  #29  
Old 01-28-2002, 03:50 AM
juniorgrrl juniorgrrl is offline
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Never once in rush did I think the sorority was trying to impress me. I went into it full well knowing that I had to impress them. There were 899 other girls out there to choose from.

There was only one sorority that didn't make quota at LSU. And they had the nerve to drop me (one of the involved people from high school with a 4.0) from formal AND informal (twice). I have no idea what they were looking for, but rumor is that nationals is living in-house this year. They still have a really high pledge attrition rate. *shrug*

Before I rushed, a friend of mine in a sorority told me "Don't worry, 200 girls know where you belong better than you do" While I understand she was trying to say that they could see if I would fit into their group, that really infuriated me. I went through rush feeling like the hand of fate was guiding it all - that I had no control over things. I also felt like she was priming me to be part of a groupthink mindset.

One major reason I dropped out of rush that day was because it finally gave me a feeling of control. For an entire week, I was told I was not good enough to attend the events of 8 out of the 10 groups on campus, after a brief 30 minute meeting. When I filled in the "withdraw" bubble on the scantron card, I felt empowered. I walked out of that room with my head high, feeling like I had finally taken control of the situation.

Granted, I think I could have been happy at the house that I had left for pref. However, I was just so tired of being told where to go, that I wanted to tell every last one of THEM where to shove it.
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  #30  
Old 01-28-2002, 07:07 AM
tridelta4ever tridelta4ever is offline
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Amen, 33girl. Very well said.



Quote:
Originally posted by 33girl
I know what carnation is saying - maybe XYZ is where so and so is meant to be, but when XYZ has 75 legacies with 4.0's come through the door, it might not matter. It's like if I see a sweater in the store that is perfect for me - if there are 10 of it in the store, and the other 10 people who want that sweater come in before me, I'm screwed. And it has nothing to do with me personally.

As far as joining "weak" chapters, or chapters that look like they are going to fold - it is all in what you want. I know some women who joined chapters that closed the semester after they pledged, and they wouldn't trade it for ANYTHING. They still found sisterhood and lasting friendships. It's like that line in Steel Magnolias - "I'd rather have 30 minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special." However, there are women who only want social position and prestige out of a sorority experience. And if that's all you are looking at groups with, you're a user, and a loser. If you want to be in a sorority that just happens to be the most prestigious on campus - because that's who you like the most and feel comfortable with - fine. But I'd like to know how many of these women in the "big 5" or whatever are really happy and close with their sisters, and how many of them are just sucking up their real selves because of the prestige. That's the women the NPC system is supposed to weed out, but unfortunately it doesn't always.
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