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  #196  
Old 08-01-2007, 11:05 AM
LionTamer LionTamer is offline
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If that's your criteria, you would have fit RIGHT in at our chapter, AlphaFrog!
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  #197  
Old 08-04-2007, 06:15 AM
BadCat25 BadCat25 is offline
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Carnation - I was interested and appalled by your comment that to be involved in certain student organizations at Auburn you had to be from one of the top sororities. If these are student organizations then they should be open to all students, no matter which sorority you are in or if you are not in one at all. This is the fault of the Auburn administration who obviously just doesn't care about its students. At my university if the sororities tried to pull something like that the administration would kick greek ass like you wouldn't believe. Could be that's what I pay $45k a year for.
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  #198  
Old 08-04-2007, 10:57 AM
dgdramadawg dgdramadawg is offline
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Originally Posted by BadCat25 View Post
Carnation - I was interested and appalled by your comment that to be involved in certain student organizations at Auburn you had to be from one of the top sororities. If these are student organizations then they should be open to all students, no matter which sorority you are in or if you are not in one at all. This is the fault of the Auburn administration who obviously just doesn't care about its students. At my university if the sororities tried to pull something like that the administration would kick greek ass like you wouldn't believe. Could be that's what I pay $45k a year for.
I'm assuming Auburn has a similar number of student orgs to UGA and they have a similar structure with a student activities office presiding over student groups. I believe we had several thousand student orgs when I was there (any organized group of 10 students with a sponsor was a student organization as long as necessary paperwork was filled out). As a serving officer of three different organizations during my time at UGA, I know that the student activities office didn't check up on our membership. One of these groups was by audition only and the other two were open to everyone, but they would have had no way of knowing if I decided the latter two were for only people from certain groups (Greeks, drama majors, rich kids, etc.). If our organization's constitution on file with student activities said we would let anyone in regardless of race, gender, religion, sexuality, etc., they assumed that we did it... so I can see how a group could get away with SAYING anyone can join/apply and then actually going about it differently. Doesn't make it right... but I can see how they could get away with it.

This is not the fault of the administration, because it's not their job. It's the job of the student activities office, and with that many student orgs there's no way they can go around policing everyone. [And, of course, I thought I'd mention that higher education is a business and the administration is not in the business of caring about their students, but rather in the business of making money.]

I would assume that any school for which you pay $45K a year has a smaller student body and less student organizations. It would be much easier to keep tabs on every organization in this situation. I'm sure that, yes, a smaller campus/student body is part of your tuition cost.
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  #199  
Old 08-04-2007, 11:13 AM
carnation carnation is offline
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What I'm talking about are organizations that you try out for like Angel Flight (now Silver Wings), War Eagle Girls (the main ambassador group), sports auxiliaries, and leadership honoraries. You had to go through numerous selection procedures like interviews and teas and some groups would have first and second cuts. Usually the groups were top-heavy with women from the older sororities because the old members voted on the new members and they tended to vote for sisters or women in "like" sororities. Hundreds of women would try for 10 or 20 open slots.

This wasn't just at Auburn--this was at all universities I attended and others I've taught at.
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  #200  
Old 08-04-2007, 02:07 PM
LXA SE285 LXA SE285 is offline
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Quote:
What I'm talking about are organizations that you try out for like Angel Flight (now Silver Wings), War Eagle Girls (the main ambassador group), sports auxiliaries, and leadership honoraries.
Same thing holds true at Bama for groups like Jasons, Capstone Men and Women, ODK, and Blue Key.
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  #201  
Old 08-04-2007, 02:32 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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Originally Posted by carnation View Post
What I'm talking about are organizations that you try out for like Angel Flight (now Silver Wings), War Eagle Girls (the main ambassador group), sports auxiliaries, and leadership honoraries. You had to go through numerous selection procedures like interviews and teas and some groups would have first and second cuts. Usually the groups were top-heavy with women from the older sororities because the old members voted on the new members and they tended to vote for sisters or women in "like" sororities. Hundreds of women would try for 10 or 20 open slots.

This wasn't just at Auburn--this was at all universities I attended and others I've taught at.
Yep. And it's not that there's a screening that says you have to be Greek to do it, or even the "who you know" aspect with old GLOs voting for new members which could certainly be a part: it's just that the same type of person with the overall qualification to be selected for these elite groups are also the same qualifications that get PNM in top GLOs.

Now, of course there are always independent represented among the super selective university wide groups, but had these independents rushed, they'd probably have been eagerly pick up by GLOs.

It's not a formal exclusionary practice of Only Top Greeks allowed. It's just often works out that way because the Greeks are leaders and joiners.
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  #202  
Old 08-05-2007, 06:46 AM
BadCat25 BadCat25 is offline
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Carnation - Just so I understand what is going on at Auburn. Hundreds of women try for 10 or 20 open slots in the War Eagle Girls. There is a selection process run by old members who are also in the top sororities. The old members then vote for their sisters or members of "like" sororities. You think this is the way it should be.

Pardon me for being an idealistic college kid.
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  #203  
Old 08-05-2007, 08:44 AM
carnation carnation is offline
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Originally Posted by BadCat25 View Post
Carnation - You think this is the way it should be.Pardon me for being an idealistic college kid.
No, I'll pardon you for being a troll or maybe I won't. In no way have I said that it should be that way. But if you happened to read what the posters from other SEC schools said in addition to what I did, you may have noticed that we said that that's how it's done. Not one of us approved.
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  #204  
Old 08-05-2007, 11:26 AM
BadCat25 BadCat25 is offline
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Carnation - If that's the way it's done at the college where you work and you don't approve why don't you work to make the selection process for these groups more inclusive. You could end up being a real hero to the rest of the students.
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  #205  
Old 08-05-2007, 11:39 AM
dgdramadawg dgdramadawg is offline
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Originally Posted by BadCat25 View Post
Carnation - If that's the way it's done at the college where you work and you don't approve why don't you work to make the selection process for these groups more inclusive. You could end up being a real hero to the rest of the students.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not necessarily part of her job.
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  #206  
Old 08-05-2007, 11:49 AM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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It's not part of her job, and I don't even think she ever worked at Auburn*. I think she was just an undergraduate student there.

BadCat, you might just need to grow up a little and not look to other people to fight the battles you think need to be fought. If this is near and dear to your heart, get after it.

Perhaps if you took us through how selections for elite organizations are done at your 45,000 dollar a year school (which incidentally, I think works against your point that the administration cares more about its students), then anyone outraged at how things are done on other campuses will know what to do.

(And honestly, unless you know what the application pool is, doesn't it even makes sense for you to draw these conclusions?)

ETA: Bases on her post below, I can see that I'm wrong about this point.

Last edited by UGAalum94; 08-05-2007 at 12:02 PM.
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  #207  
Old 08-05-2007, 11:52 AM
carnation carnation is offline
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That's not how it's done where I teach now. And at any university, I wouldn't have any input whatsoever unless I were advisor to the group. I taught at Auburn in the eighties and advised 2 clubs but other professors certainly didn't get involved in my honoraries.

Great points, AlphaGamUGA Alum!
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Last edited by carnation; 08-05-2007 at 11:56 AM.
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  #208  
Old 08-05-2007, 01:13 PM
AlphaFrog AlphaFrog is offline
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Originally Posted by BadCat25 View Post
Carnation - If that's the way it's done at the college where you work and you don't approve why don't you work to make the selection process for these groups more inclusive. You could end up being a real hero to the rest of the students.
Or, you can just accept the fact that this is the way the world works, and get over it. Or, you can have a nervous brakedown by the time you're 30 worrying about things you can't control.

Are you going to tell a future potential employer that he should stop hiring his partner's sons and hire you because that's what's fair and inclusive?
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  #209  
Old 08-07-2007, 04:08 PM
Zillini Zillini is offline
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I'd like to get back to the original topic, at least in regards to highly competitive Recruitments. Yes PNM's get their hearts broken and no it's not always fair. But let's face it, life isn't going to be fair.

For many of these young women this may be the first time they've ever experienced rejection. It's a life lesson everyone needs to learn because odds are they will get rejected again sometime. Once they graduate they'll interview for a job and they're not always going to get it even if they are qualified. Depending on the job, there may be a lot of other qualified candidates and the employer needs to narrow the field somehow. No one is saying they aren't good people, just that they aren't a good fit with that group or the right person for that particular job.

My heart breaks for PNM's that don't get bids to the Chapter they've been dreaming about or maybe don't even get a bid at all. But it's not the end of the world even if it feels like it at the time. Chin up, life goes on.
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  #210  
Old 12-21-2007, 09:46 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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I was thinking of this thread today. It's one of the family jokes that if I were a Disney princess, the others feel I would clearly be Belle whereas I have always insisted that I'm Sleeping Beauty. (I've felt that way for decades--since Sleeping Beauty came out when I was a child.)

So it would be like someone insisting she was a sure fit for Sleeping Beauty Sorority (Sigma Beta Sigma?) when the whole world, except her, knows she's clearly a Belle.
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