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  #46  
Old 09-11-2013, 03:44 PM
PersistentDST PersistentDST is offline
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To be honest, I've been waiting for something like this to occur.
In the past, (from what I have read) when a black girl was dropped at Alabama, it was attributed to the statement:

"There are plenty of white girls who are dropped out of recruitment, too. How can you scream racism if you don't know why she was dropped in the first place?"
Then there is some official statement saying, "Our organization does not condone discrimination blah blah blah..."
I recall the young lady who tried it twice getting dogged because she had an "agenda."

This blows it out the water. I'm sure there were members of chapters down there who have either quit, or remained mum about these type of issues in the past, as to avoid a conflict. Unfortunately, remaining quiet produces NO change. It takes WAY more for the members to speak out when they see something happening that's wrong. (Although some didn't give their names, it is still a step in a positive direction.) Kudo's to them!

I think that "advisors" should learn their role, and have all the seats in Dallas Stadium, one at at time! Not only are they going against the racial discrimination policies of their own organization, but they are also blatently disrespecting the votes of their own sisters.

I feel bad for the young ladies in question, who simply want to join a sorority and appear to exceed the requirements to be in a sisterhood. The system is so backwards there, that it is national news (again). BUT...on the other end, I also feel as though certain times you just have to know what you are getting into. These stories never surprise me! I've always been taught to be aware that things like this can and sometimes will happen because of the color of my skin. It is what it is.
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Last edited by PersistentDST; 09-11-2013 at 03:49 PM.
  #47  
Old 09-11-2013, 03:52 PM
Low D Flat Low D Flat is offline
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Quote:
Are you suggesting that a no-rec prohibits a chapter from pledging a PNM? This is not the case, at least not across the board.
No, just that they exist across the board. They could be a useful tool in a particular chapter that wanted to conceal a racist decision. They wouldn't have to trigger an automatic cut to be effective at keeping black PNMs out: a no-rec could just dock a PNM some number of points, move her onto the second bid list, require that she meet some higher good-rec standard, whatever. In an environment with only a handful of black PNMs and super high return rates, that would be plenty to keep them out.

Basically, I'm saying that DTD's theory is pretty convincing.

Last edited by Low D Flat; 09-11-2013 at 04:49 PM.
  #48  
Old 09-11-2013, 03:55 PM
DTD Alum DTD Alum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishpipes View Post
Are you suggesting that a no-rec prohibits a chapter from pledging a PNM? This is not the case, at least not across the board.
This is why, I believe, people are asking for some transparency in membership selection when situations like this occur. Like I said, it was the belief of two different women I know that this is absolutely how it occurs in their particular GLOs. Obviously things vary, but both seemed to indicate that in their orgs, if an alumna had a red-flag about a potential PNM that she had the ability to write a "do not pledge" type of no rec that meant the chapter would not take the girl, with no discussion. Whereas if a sister had a problem with a PNM that she wanted to keep private, she could go to the membership team or head or whatever and make her case discreetly, and the woman could similarly be automatically dropped without discussion from the chapter. In both situations, it seems like there were avenues for one woman, either an alumna or a collegian, to go past the chapter membership and ensure a PNM was cut on Day 1, and that discussion was not allowed and that the adviser or membership chair or whatever would simply say something to the effect of "she will not be invited back". All hearsay, sort of...both members were close to the procedure, and the procedure seemed to line up almost identically between their two GLOs. I'm just saying, where there is smoke...

I don't even have a problem with this policy, but from reading in between the lines of that article, it seems like this may have been the case for some of those GLOs.

I'm sure it's not across the board. I bet every sorority is different. But I've also heard enough rumblings from collegians and recent alumnae that this seems like it may indeed exist in at least a couple of GLOs. I understand nobody here is going to comment on this.

Last edited by DTD Alum; 09-11-2013 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Clarified
  #49  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:04 PM
amIblue? amIblue? is offline
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I am in no way condoning what has gone on at Alabama, but I would say its safe to say that all NPC groups may suffer from overzealous alumnae from time to time who may overstep their bounds. When they do, it can be challenging for collegiate members to assert themselves. At least, that is the anecdotal evidence from my sorority.
  #50  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:09 PM
PersistentDST PersistentDST is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amIblue? View Post
I am in no way condoning what has gone on at Alabama, but I would say its safe to say that all NPC groups may suffer from overzealous alumnae from time to time who may overstep their bounds. When they do, it can be challenging for collegiate members to assert themselves. At least, that is the anecdotal evidence from my sorority.
I'm sure that is a characteristic of GLO's in general!
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  #51  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:12 PM
Low D Flat Low D Flat is offline
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Not to mention colleges and universities.
  #52  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:37 PM
Sen's Revenge Sen's Revenge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation View Post
But...a lot of times, someone who wants to pledge an NPHC group will come here and start asking questions and people hush her up and tell her she's being grossly indiscreet. Some have expressed major frustration because they feel blocked out because they're not "in the know" from families or friends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PersistentDST View Post
The reason people tell interests to get off of the net and go to the source, is because for the most part, our information isn't that hard to find. Our national (and local) websites tell you what you need in order to qualify for membership, and that even if you do qualify, you still need a majority vote from the chapter. That's not secret. Any further information that one needs to know involves them going to an informational/rush where it is presented to them. While some are invite only, many of those are open to the public.
If one is interested, they will go to the local chapters functions and meet members (UG or Alum). Sitting on a computer will not help an interest get where they want to be. I cannot answer questions about a chapter in the middle of Hawaii beyond what is already on our national website. They need to research.
"Membership selection is private" is not the same statement as "Discretion is key."


Quote:
Originally Posted by DTD Alum View Post
OK, I admit I am lane swerving, but I am sort of with Sen in that I am more than ready for some transparency here. As a relatively recent alumnus, I have to say that sorority members, particularly right after they graduate, are far more open to talking about membership selection, operations, even rituals than GC'ers are. And most of the stuff is petty, but sometimes where there is smoke, there is fire, so I'll go ahead and say it.

ETA: The discussion of this procedure happened at a brunch where a friend of mine mentioned she had done it for a girl we all knew who had done discriminatory things in the past that her collegiate chapter was unaware of, and another friend who had led her house in rush verified she saw the same thing happened in her own sorority. Just for clarity. One was at my school, the other was not. Friends were from high school.

Second ETA: This honestly also lines up very closely with what the collegians had to say in the piece, and even makes sense if the advisers were "sticking to procedure regarding recommendations" in terms of some of the adviser quotes.
I agree and have had similar real-life conversations with NPC alumnae and collegians.

lol.... y'all think the GC opinion is the prevailing one....

  #53  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:45 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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Really embarrassed as a Tri Delta to see Tri Delta specifically named in the article.

I wrote a rec for a young woman from Michigan who went through recruitment at Alabama this fall. She was released. (Yes, actually released.) I really felt badly for her. Far away from home and a terrible recruitment experience. Obviously I have no way of knowing what happened during her recruitment, but it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

I keep reading about the influx of outsiders into Alabama and I wonder why someone from the outside would go there. I mean no disrespect to the Alabama alums here who love their school. But as an outsider looking in... The Machine... The racism that is still apparent...

I just don't get it.
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  #54  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:45 PM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins View Post
The story saddens me but also gives me hope that courageous women will make the changes that are necessary to comply with their national policies in their local operations.
I don't want to discount what you've said, but the act of the sisters standing up for this PNM is about so much more than just complying with national policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
As for the alumnae involvement in membership selection, all of you are assuming knowledge of all 26 groups' membership selection procedures and assuming that they do not allow alumnae involvement in same. I wouldn't be so quick to do that.
I don't care if any NPC allows alumnae involvement or not. I just don't think that any alumna/alumnae should be permitted to keep a PNM from receiving an invite/bid and trump all decisions made by the active members of the chapter... especially if there is no justifiable reason for denying the PNM membership. And in this case, it looks as though a reason didn't exist. As some of the sisters in the article pointed out, she was nearly the perfect PNM.

In my opinion, regardless of how a national organization currently wants/believes its chapters to be operating when it comes to membership selection, I don't think the alumnae should have more of a say than the active chapter members.
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Last edited by ASTalumna06; 09-11-2013 at 04:55 PM.
  #55  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:47 PM
maconmagnolia maconmagnolia is offline
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Seriously? This is 2013. Shame on those alums. However, it's good to see collegiate members standing up for what is right.
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  #56  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:48 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTD Alum View Post
OK, I admit I am lane swerving, but I am sort of with Sen in that I am more than ready for some transparency here.
YOU are ready for some transparency by the sororities? Well, though I disagree with what it looks like happened at Bama, I'll tell you this: I will keep my nose out of fraternities' membership selection as well as the selection of other sororities. And you may keep yours out of ours.

How presumptuous.
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  #57  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:52 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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Someone else mentioned this in the comment of the article and I think it is true.

The irony is that the football team is followed like a religion at this school with their High Priest Nick Saban and it is full of black students. These same Greeks will do anything to follow their football team.

And yet they wouldn't let the sister of one of the players into their own group.

Cognitive dissonance anyone?
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  #58  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:56 PM
Low D Flat Low D Flat is offline
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Quote:
I don't want to discount what you've said, but the act of the sisters standing up for this PNM is about so much more than just complying with national policy.
Yes. Though we've debated it in the past, I think it's very difficult to argue that federal anti-discrimination law doesn't/shouldn't apply to student organizations that receive a significant annual subsidy from a public university. "We're private" doesn't cut it when you're getting the land under your mansion for $1/year courtesy of the state. When you accept that entanglement with the public university, you need to obey the law.
  #59  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:58 PM
pinapple pinapple is offline
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Quote:
“Our philanthropy chair really wanted her and was rooting for her and left before the parties and everything when she found out [the recruit was dropped],” the Chi Omega member said. “She was living in the house – she just packed up all her stuff and left the house and left rush.”
Good for her. It takes and great deal of personal strength and an even stronger moral compass for a girl who is engrained enough in her sorority to be in a leadership role; to pack up her stuff and make the statement that she simply refuses to watch blatant discrimination take place in an organization she loves. Step back for a moment and realize what she has left behind to stand up in defense of the young women she felt was dismissed solely based on the color of her skin.
  #60  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:58 PM
DTD Alum DTD Alum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation View Post
YOU are ready for some transparency by the sororities? Well, though I disagree with what it looks like happened at Bama, I'll tell you this: I will keep my nose out of fraternities' membership selection as well as the selection of other sororities. And you may keep yours out of ours.

How presumptuous.
The same way every fraternity did it...put a slideshow of rushees pictures and talked about them. Our vote to get a bid was I believe 85%. The percentage to get invited back every subsequent night was higher than the previous, maybe started at 50% for the open house night or something, and increased. Often there would be heated debates and some members would be drinking. We did not have a blackball system but I know of at least one other chapter at my school that did. To my knowledge, we had absolutely no nationally mandated way to vote, it was all from chapter bylaws. I know one fraternity just elected a rush chair and committee and let them do all the deciding. And I have never heard of an IFC fraternity who had a rubric like the NPC sororities, usually it was up to the chapter to figure out how to cut/bid.

The point is that fraternities don't claim secrecy about the way we let guys in. Sororities do. And when an article comes out that multiple women who are currently active seem to indicate there were avenues for alumnae to cut a girl they wanted for reprehensibly discriminatory reasons, and yet sororities will not disclose if those avenues (even if they are well intentioned and just being taken advantage of by racist alumnae) even exist, then how on earth can there be a discussion about how they can be fixed?

Nobody is asking what Pi Phi stands for or the significance of AGD's colors. People are just wondering what these women might be referring to when the article quotes procedures that were used by alumnae to keep women out. It is a fair question, IMO.

And I stand by that many collegians and younger alumnae have no problem telling you all you want to know about membership selection. Frankly most of what I have been told is fairly boring and expected.

Last edited by DTD Alum; 09-11-2013 at 05:01 PM.
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