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  #31  
Old 09-11-2013, 03:38 PM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge View Post
If your process allows alumnae to intercede, then yes, that needs to be public.

If your process allows racial discrimination, then yes, that needs to be public.

And so on.
I would be VERY surprised if the official membership process of most (In the report in The Crimson this point was made) NPCs doesn't exclude alumnae involvement in the actual voting process (collecting ballots - good. Filling out a ballot - bad). Those who DO might wish to reconsider. Recs are when alumnae get their voice, as far as I am concerned. The members in the chapter are the ones who will live with this woman as a sister for the next few years - they are the only ones who should vote.

NONE of the NPCs allow racial discrimination in the official membership process. The problem is apparently some Bama chapters are NOT in line with NPC official national standards. I suspect it is rogue alumnae who have interfered and taken advantage of their position and the fact that collegians may be afraid to contradict them, or may not know that they are overstepping their positions. The brave sisters who are bringing this to light are, it is to be hoped, going to force HQs to step in and rectify the situation.
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Last edited by SWTXBelle; 09-11-2013 at 03:48 PM.
  #32  
Old 09-11-2013, 03:42 PM
MaryPoppins MaryPoppins is offline
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The story saddens me but also gives me hope that courageous women will make the changes that are necessary to comply with their national policies in their local operations.
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Last edited by MaryPoppins; 09-11-2013 at 04:05 PM.
  #33  
Old 09-11-2013, 03:43 PM
amIblue? amIblue? is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Football Fan View Post
Tri Delta has women of all races in their chapters.
Not at your chapter at Alabama, you don't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 View Post
I know that you only speak of all things Tri Delta on this site, but all of the NPC sororities accept women of all races. But there is obviously a culture at Alabama which tends to cause the NPC chapters to turn women away based on the color of their skin.

Let's not pretend that any organization (NPC or otherwise) doesn't have at least one member who is racist.
Yes. This. All of our sororities have women across the racial spectrum on a national level. This article speaks about the chapters at one school.

Last edited by amIblue?; 09-11-2013 at 03:49 PM.
  #34  
Old 09-11-2013, 03:46 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 View Post
While I can appreciate the insight, knowledge, and benefits of hindsight from alumnae and advisors, I was shocked to read this and find out that at Alabama (and possibly elsewhere) they have enough power in the membership selection process to keep a PNM off the invite/bid list, against the wishes of nearly the entire chapter.

Aside from the racism issue, I think the national organizations need to evaluate the membership selection process at some of these schools and ensure that ultimately it's the active sisters who are making the membership decisions.
As for the alumnae involvement in membership selection, all of you are assuming knowledge of all 26 groups' membership selection procedures and assuming that they do not allow alumnae involvement in same. I wouldn't be so quick to do that.
  #35  
Old 09-11-2013, 03:49 PM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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The full report in The Crimson points out that apparently at least one NPC does allow alumnae involvement. It isn't clear if that is official or not.
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  #36  
Old 09-11-2013, 03:54 PM
joliebelle joliebelle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
It still blows my mind that alumnae and advisors have any say AT ALL beyond the rec process as to who should or should not be in chapters. It's infantilization, plain and simple. Fwap fwap fwap.
This!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmadiva View Post
This is where the international officers of each of these NPC orgs need to step in and correct their alumnae.
And this!

I have it on very good authority that at least one NPC group headquarters know that blatant discrimination goes on at their Alabama chapter(s). They stay mum about it because Bama is too much of a desirable place to have a chapter.
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  #37  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:01 PM
DTD Alum DTD Alum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
Recs are when alumnae get their voice, as far as I am concerned.
OK, I admit I am lane swerving, but I am sort of with Sen in that I am more than ready for some transparency here. As a relatively recent alumnus, I have to say that sorority members, particularly right after they graduate, are far more open to talking about membership selection, operations, even rituals than GC'ers are. And most of the stuff is petty, but sometimes where there is smoke, there is fire, so I'll go ahead and say it.

I agree with your statement, but isn't this exactly where the problem is coming from?

I have been told by members of two different sororities (one who was rush chair and saw it happen, and one who actually used this following tactic) that for their orgs, all it took to get a girl automatically cut was for the chapter to receive a "no rec/do not pledge rec" from ANY alumna. And that the delivery of such a rec, which seemed to be worse than a "I do not recommend", was enough to get the PNM cut after Day 1 with absolutely no discussion allowed.

Neither GLO was mentioned in the Crimson White article, but both are present at Bama. Maybe these are the only two GLOs that do it, and maybe both collegians were confused when they told me and understood the procedure wrong (although I don't think a rush chair and somebody who used this tactic would get it wrong, but who knows). But given the statements Melanie Gotz and others made in the piece, this seems like a very likely avenue for an alumna who is concerned with keeping the chapter white, or rich, or whatever to efficiently blackball a rushee.

I know we don't talk about membership selection or whatever, and I can see many good uses for this tactic (in fact, the girl I know who did it had very specific information that was verified that the chapter didn't know of), but can we maybe just admit that whether the above example is true or not, that loopholes may just exist that alumnae are exploiting for their own discriminatory interests?

ETA: The discussion of this procedure happened at a brunch where a friend of mine mentioned she had done it for a girl we all knew who had done discriminatory things in the past that her collegiate chapter was unaware of, and another friend who had led her house in rush verified she saw the same thing happened in her own sorority. Just for clarity. One was at my school, the other was not. Friends were from high school.

Second ETA: This honestly also lines up very closely with what the collegians had to say in the piece, and even makes sense if the advisers were "sticking to procedure regarding recommendations" in terms of some of the adviser quotes.

Last edited by DTD Alum; 09-11-2013 at 04:07 PM.
  #38  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:02 PM
KDCat KDCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joliebelle View Post
This!


And this!

I have it on very good authority that at least one NPC group headquarters know that blatant discrimination goes on at their Alabama chapter(s). They stay mum about it because Bama is too much of a desirable place to have a chapter.
If other alums don't object to what is happening, then a small number of Alabama alums can have their way and Nationals doesn't have to do anything about it. If other alums object to Nationals then Nationals will have to do something. Alums need to let Nationals know that this is a problem and a small number of Alabama alums shouldn't be allowed to do this because it is wrong and it embarrasses all of us.
  #39  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:11 PM
MaryPoppins MaryPoppins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KDCat View Post
If other alums don't object to what is happening, then a small number of Alabama alums can have their way and Nationals doesn't have to do anything about it. If other alums object to Nationals then Nationals will have to do something. Alums need to let Nationals know that this is a problem and a small number of Alabama alums shouldn't be allowed to do this because it is wrong and it embarrasses all of us.
Precisely.
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  #40  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:23 PM
ChioLu ChioLu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KDCat View Post
If other alums don't object to what is happening, then a small number of Alabama alums can have their way and Nationals doesn't have to do anything about it. If other alums object to Nationals then Nationals will have to do something. Alums need to let Nationals know that this is a problem and a small number of Alabama alums shouldn't be allowed to do this because it is wrong and it embarrasses all of us.
And this should go for the Texas alumnae/advisors who are allowing the shenanigans during Recruitment to continue.
  #41  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:24 PM
joliebelle joliebelle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KDCat View Post
If other alums don't object to what is happening, then a small number of Alabama alums can have their way and Nationals doesn't have to do anything about it. If other alums object to Nationals then Nationals will have to do something. Alums need to let Nationals know that this is a problem and a small number of Alabama alums shouldn't be allowed to do this because it is wrong and it embarrasses all of us.
I agree with you.

I did have an older alumna tell me that recs were pulled for a time because of similar reasons not too long ago all because collegiates complained about how awful the alum were about them. Honestly as a black girl who is very involved as an alumna it is disheartening and it is embarrassing.
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Last edited by joliebelle; 09-11-2013 at 04:30 PM. Reason: y u no work quote box?
  #42  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:34 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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I heard this about a month ago and don't go piling on me because I'm telling you. Some people claimed that some fraternities told them that they wouldn't have any swaps with them if they pledged black women and others said that The Machine threatened them with I know not what. This was apparently pretty common knowledge around the state.

I don't know if it's true. Maybe so. Maybe the alums did wield some power, though I've never personally seen alums do so.

What I do think is true is that no Greekchatter believes that exclusion on the basis of race is ever justified.
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  #43  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:38 PM
Low D Flat Low D Flat is offline
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Quote:
What is cool about this story (silver lining) is that these women who are coming forward are from chapters that are typically defined as "top tier" and historically strong at Bama.
That's remarkable, isn't it? I won't name the chapter, but when a whistleblower NPC member spoke out about this sort of discrimination at UGA a while back, that wasn't the case. If these chapters want change, we might actually see change.

Quote:
loopholes may just exist that alumnae are exploiting for their own discriminatory interests?
I think it's common knowledge that no-recs exist. I also think that in any rule-bound structure, it's easy to come up with a procedural reason to block an action you don't want to take. (Just look at Congress.) It had to be the talk of this superstar black PNM's hometown that she was doing NPC rush at UA. Her local NPC and NPHC alumnae knew all about it. Racist alumnae would have had plenty of time to warn their chapters if they chose to.

Quote:
Some people claimed that some fraternities told them that they wouldn't have any swaps with them if they pledged black women and others said that The Machine threatened them with I know not what.
Wouldn't surprise me. Which makes it all the more notable that members spoke out, even anonymously. Within any chapter, and even within the system, there's got to be plenty of suspicion about who these women are. Anyone who protested during MS is going to get blowback from some quarters, and it is good that they are doing the right thing anyway.

Last edited by Low D Flat; 09-11-2013 at 04:43 PM.
  #44  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:40 PM
ColdInCanada11 ColdInCanada11 is offline
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I don't know what to say. I've never been upset to be linked with any other Alpha Gamma Deltas before, but this is horrible and greatly saddening.
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  #45  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:44 PM
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irishpipes irishpipes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low D Flat View Post
I think it's common knowledge that no-recs exist.
Are you suggesting that a no-rec prohibits a chapter from pledging a PNM? This is not the case, at least not across the board.
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