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  #31  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:51 AM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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In Cajun culture, the questions are 1) can you make a roux - because that's the basis of a lot of their cooking, 2) can you speak French - because many older relatives don't speak English, and 3) who's your daddy - because the Cajun area is so small and there are so few Cajun surnames that this gives the questioner a sense of where you are from, where your people are and where they are buried because the Cajuns didn't stray far from home once they settled an area. They would have been too discriminated against and probaly didn't speak enough English to get by in another culture.
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  #32  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:05 PM
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KDCat KDCat is offline
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Originally Posted by Hartofsec View Post
Considering some discussion on another thread – I was wondering – why are recommendations absolutely necessary at some schools, while not expected at others (acknowledging that member selection policies vary among chapters)?

Before reading on this site, I assumed that recs were usually submitted prior to recruitment at just about every school (acknowledging that the recruitments at some of our universities would be considered ridiculously over-the-top by the majority of other Greeks nationwide).

I know a mom whose daughter is planning to attend Wash U next year, and mom assumes (as would I) that her daughter will need to have several recs per chapter, and that this would best be completed by summer’s end if possible (rush is deferred there). I just checked Wash U’s site, and didn’t find any info for PNMs regarding recs (or a colorful 50-page pdf on the fundamentals of recruitment and fashion, either ). Perhaps recs are not a part of the recruitment culture or expectation there (?) – the only other girl I know of there now isn’t in a sorority.

I guess my actual question is . . . if chapters at schools outside of the must-have-recs list are able to recruit wonderful pledge classes full of accomplished and felony-free young women, are alum-generated and endorsed recs really necessary? Or do we just do this because we have always done things this way?

Just food for thought. Don’t get me wrong, I still see the value of personal recommendations, but a lot has changed in regard to transmission of information, social networking, numbers of legacies, and OOS campus populations in the last three decades or so (at my own school anyway). I can't imagine that alum-endorsed recs will become obsolete anytime in the near future, but I’d be interested in knowing how PNM info is gathered/handled by chapters at schools where recs are not expected (not intended to tread on membership selection info).

*If any PNMs are reading, by all means heed the “ Schools where you absolutely positively need recs” thread:
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=112718

*** And if anyone has any advice on recs (or recruitment in general) at Washington University, please post (I did search the “schools where you must have recs” thread and the forum search, but didn’t see a search result concerning recs at Wash U).
BTW, I haven't been through the recruitment process at WUSTL. Next January will be my first time working a WUSTL recruitment. The official position of Panhel, though, is that recs aren't required. My impression is that recruitment at WUSTL is more Midwestern and Northeastern than SEC. Mizzou is very SEC. WUSTL not so much. Recs can't hurt, but I wouldn't stress about not having two per group and I wouldn't stress if I missed one group entirely. If you are looking for help getting recs, you might also contact the St. Louis Alumnae Panhellenic Association or one of the alumnae groups for the sororities on campus. I'm sure that someone local would be happy to meet with her in the fall and look over her resume and probably give her a rec.

Info here: http://glo.wustl.edu/Pages/Joining.aspx

You can also contact the Greek Life office and double-check with them. They're really helpful people. I really like the GLO staff at WUSTL.
http://glo.wustl.edu/Pages/Contact-Us.aspx

Last edited by KDCat; 02-17-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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  #33  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:07 PM
MaryPoppins MaryPoppins is offline
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Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
In Cajun culture, the questions are 1) can you make a roux - because that's the basis of a lot of their cooking, 2) can you speak French - because many older relatives don't speak English, and 3) who's your daddy - because the Cajun area is so small and there are so few Cajun surnames that this gives the questioner a sense of where you are from, where your people are and where they are buried because the Cajuns didn't stray far from home once they settled an area. They would have been too discriminated against and probaly didn't speak enough English to get by in another culture.
The Delta starts in the lobby of the Peabody Hotel in Memphis, and extends southward to Greenville (some people say Vicksburg) and thence to the edge of the hills on East from Greenwood bordered by the hills and back up to the Peabody. It is a lengthy, wide, sparsely settled agricultural flood plain, where you might have to travel far from home to find what you need. That's how my Mimi met my Grandaddy. She had a flat tire out of town and needed a rec (from her cousin) to a reputable repair shop. Grandaddy had a Chrysler dealership. It was love at first sight (XΩ+KA)
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  #34  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:09 PM
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KDCat KDCat is offline
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Originally Posted by Hartofsec View Post
I can understand that -- for the PNMs who alums know very well. On the other hand, this can also lead to some conflict and hard feelings when an alum's favorite PNM or legacy is released.

I've written recs on girls whose parents I knew better than the girl herself, and on girls I haven't known all their lives. I also disclosed how well/long I knew the PNM -- and was content to leave the rest to the chapter (without feeling offended over my input one way or another). Most of the girls I know very, very well are daughters of close friends and family, and/or those who were clustered around my own daughter's age.

Maybe alums could still write personal letters of support if they wished, on their own (unsolicited), for the few girls they know well and are really passionate about.

Like I said, just thinking out loud (meandering mostly I guess).
Realistically, it's not worse than collegiate members voting on PNMS who they have talked to for 20 -30 minutes. It helps with the vetting process.
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  #35  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:17 PM
Hartofsec Hartofsec is offline
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I have wondered if the "do you know the rushee personally" box on our profile forms (I don't know what other sorority forms say but I've heard here that there is a similar question on other forms) isn't telling them whether to keep or round file the form. But if that's the case, I wish they would say "we will no longer accept recommendations for members you do not personally know." And then we could stop telling girls they absolutely positively have to have recs.
Yes it seems that most rec forms include a similar question – and honestly, it seems as if the rec forms themselves may be somewhat outdated.

These generally seem to ask the same questions requiring objective responses (like GPA, SAT/ACT, class rank, Greek affiliations, etc) and have (too small) spaces to include activities, honors, community service, etc.

Some have boxes to check on subjective items like poise and moral character – but it seems to me, considering the times, it should probably ask “Does the PNM’s Facebook or Twitter contain objectionable material? ” instead. (kidding, but not really)

After spending some (aggravating) time trying to log in to download rec forms (and calling to straighten out the site glitch), I discovered that these are online (in legitimate places) just for the googling. I checked about four other GLOs – same thing. Irksome, but just another sign of the times I guess.
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  #36  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:22 PM
MaryPoppins MaryPoppins is offline
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Originally Posted by Hartofsec View Post
After spending some (aggravating) time trying to log in to download rec forms (and calling to straighten out the site glitch), I discovered that these are online (in legitimate places) just for the googling. I checked about four other GLOs – same thing. Irksome, but just another sign of the times I guess.
Maybe I am just a GenX technogeek but I adore submitting the forms online electronically. For my GLO, if you have access to your GLO's member side of the GLO web site, then you have access to submit the forms electronically including uploaded jpg photos. And I have heard that the Ole Miss Theta recruitment team also appreciates the electronic forms.
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  #37  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:24 PM
Hartofsec Hartofsec is offline
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Originally Posted by KDCat View Post
Realistically, it's not worse than collegiate members voting on PNMS who they have talked to for 20 -30 minutes. It helps with the vetting process.
That really isn't much time to base decisions upon, for sure -- a difficult issue to address in these huge recruitments.

And thanks for the info on Wash U -- best wishes for a very successful recruitment there!
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  #38  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:36 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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MaryPoppins - you'll love this story. Last fall I was in Tuscaloosa with a sorority sister who went to MS State. Typical MS gal. I made a wrong turn and ended up on a one way street going in the wrong direction! Just as I pulled over to determine if I could make a u turn, here comes a police car. As my friend and I were gabbing away at the polite young man in the car about how sorry we were and I about how the town had changed so much from when I was in school and this road didn't used to be one way, etc, etc, he pipes up and says that it sure had changed. He was "from around these parts" and things sure had changed as the campus grew (as he chewed his wad of tobacco!). He happened to mention his family name at which point I said, in the most southern belle voice I could muster, "then you must know my uncle, Dr.......!" To which he replied " Doc ........ is your uncle?!?! Well, gosh, that makes ...... your cousin!" Well, blessed be, I jumped on that with " You know, she was named after my mama. My mama's name was ..." So then he was kind enough to direct me to the end of the block where I could make a correct turn and get back to Birmingham "all in good order" while he stood watch. Mr friend from MS said - "that sounded just like you were from MS!" We laughed all the way back to Birmingham.
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  #39  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:38 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Originally Posted by MaryPoppins View Post
Maybe I am just a GenX technogeek but I adore submitting the forms online electronically. For my GLO, if you have access to your GLO's member side of the GLO web site, then you have access to submit the forms electronically including uploaded jpg photos. And I have heard that the Ole Miss Theta recruitment team also appreciates the electronic forms.
Most do appreciate that as it makes it easier to import to a power point for the chapter. At least the groups I'm around like that aspect.
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  #40  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:42 PM
MaryPoppins MaryPoppins is offline
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Titchou, that is too cute! You may have heard that the most valuable export of Mississippi is brains, and so everywhere I have ever lived, I have always been able to find someone who knew someone from back home: D.C., San Francisco, Mobile, New Orleans, and of course Memphis.
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  #41  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:43 PM
adpiucf adpiucf is offline
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I agree that is is a way to manage numbers at a school with tons of PNMs and also a way to keep the alumnae involved. There are alumnae associations who LIVE for rec-writing season!
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  #42  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:05 PM
atrianglepi atrianglepi is offline
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I have a daughter currently at an SEC school. She served on her Recruitment Committee. They have tried lengthening recruitment for the last 2 years to help with retention numbers. It actually had the opposite result and there was a lot of back lash. This fall they will shorten it. As far as RECs go, I agree that at most of these large recruitment schools, it is a check off on a box. It does not guarantee anyone an invitation to the second round. Both my daughters have had wonderful, personal RECs that didn't mean squat once recruitment started.
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  #43  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:35 PM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
I'm on this page....but I will also admit that I am old line southern and Cajun. Both cultures are strong on the "who's your Daddy" element - in fact, it's always stated as one of 3 questions a Cajun boy asks a girl he meets. And I truly do call around on anyone who asks me for a rec if I don't already know her. Granted, not everyone puts the research in but I was "raised" that way and I still do it. I just can't see putting my name on a form approving someone for membership if I didn't really know about her.
Crazy idea: what if the recs could be from ANY NPC alumna? What if all PNM's were expected to find, say, three recs in total, and have them sent to all chapters?

1) I'd rather see a personal rec from an XYZ who knows the PNM than a rec from an alumna of my own group who met the woman for lunch once, and

2) If an alumna of XYZ says that a PNM is fit for membership in her group, I generally take it to mean that she's fit for membership in my own, too.

3) It's hard to imagine there are areas of the country where women couldn't find SOME sorority women they know personally. There's still a race/class aspect, but the geography problem is pretty quickly solved.

Last edited by DeltaBetaBaby; 02-17-2013 at 01:38 PM.
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  #44  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:05 PM
DubaiSis DubaiSis is offline
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DBB, I think your idea is really an interesting one, but it diminishes the competition for the "best" girls.

I also find it really interesting that the only ones here who like recs are from the deep south (as far as I can tell anyway). I really do think it's way more about tradition than anything else. And for all the mythos about family connections, we've seen in the numbers that Bama, for instance, does a great job at placing girls from all over the country. Now those girls may have had great recs for every chapter, but I doubt they are the same kind of recs the girl from Birmingham has.

Which brings me back to hazing before the fact. I think it's just busy work to narrow down the girls who are willing to jump through the hoops. I also say if you really want alumnae input, have a rush day of interviews by them, ala colony recruitment. Then every girl would have a rec and it would be a valid one that wasn't done by some stranger who may or may not even know the girl.
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  #45  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:11 PM
DaffyKD DaffyKD is offline
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In all my years as a KD, I have only written 1 rec other than the legacy form I sent to my daughter's school. The young lady was going through rush at an SEC school, waiting until the last minute to contact our headquarters trying to track down a rec. Headquarters contacted the Alumnae Chapter and I was given the "opportunity" to meet the young lady. I did not check the box that asked if I knew the girl personally. I also stated right on the form that my recommendation was based on meeting the young lady for 30 minutes. No one I knew had any connection with her. I e-mail it off to the chapter. As far as I have been led to understand through the GC grapevine that listed the new members by chapter at that school she either dropped out of recruitment or all houses dropped her.

I felt that my rec was a total waste of time since it did not give the chapter a glowing review of the young lady. I can see where it was used as a means of dropping her for someone who had a more glowing rec.

In my day, National required them but the chapters sent out the forms to the various AC's to get them filled out. We had to do it quickly as we had to relie on pony express. No one had a fax in their home, computers were still using punch cards, etc. We did take recs over the phone if we had to. Who ever was our rec chair would be up all night trying to locate someone who would write something. Glad those days are behind us.

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