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  #16  
Old 02-17-2013, 03:23 AM
DubaiSis DubaiSis is offline
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Rush needs to take longer at the huge schools. That it takes virtually the same number of days for IU and for a school with 4 chapters is just insane. Round one should take 3 days so that the parties can last longer and allow more time to talk. And round 2 should be 2 days. If the chapters were relying more on actual conversation they could rely less on paperwork from strangers.
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  #17  
Old 02-17-2013, 03:43 AM
greekdee greekdee is offline
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Originally Posted by DubaiSis View Post
Rush needs to take longer at the huge schools. That it takes virtually the same number of days for IU and for a school with 4 chapters is just insane. Round one should take 3 days so that the parties can last longer and allow more time to talk. And round 2 should be 2 days. If the chapters were relying more on actual conversation they could rely less on paperwork from strangers.
This. Yes.
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  #18  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:04 AM
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The rec issue in the SEC predates RFM, greekdee. I have many friends that rushed at LSU and I nearly did. I had two recs lined up for each chapter at LSU way before RFM was ever even a glimmer in the NPC's eye. Friends of mine without recs were cut across the board day 1 when they showed up without recs. It's been a tradition in the SEC for a long time...maybe because of number of PNMs, maybe just because of tradition. Smaller Southern schools don't do this so I don't know what the exact answer is, but it may be a combination of many things.
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  #19  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:15 AM
amIblue? amIblue? is offline
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I do think its an easy way to manage numbers.
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  #20  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:22 AM
MaryPoppins MaryPoppins is offline
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  #21  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:38 AM
AXOrushadvisor AXOrushadvisor is offline
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I totally disagree. I think recs have a very appropriate place in the recruitment process. Think of it this way; I would rather hire someone that comes to me with a personal recommendation then someone I find in a standard interview process. A recommendation from an alum that personally knows a young women should hold a lot of weight. No one should recommend a PNM for membership that they don't think would make a great member. Some people interview (recruit) very well. You hire (pledge) them and they are psycho. Hopefully you can avoid those mistakes by having a recommendation.
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  #22  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:42 AM
MaryPoppins MaryPoppins is offline
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Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor View Post
I totally disagree. I think recs have a very appropriate place in the recruitment process. Think of it this way; I would rather hire someone that comes to me with a personal recommendation then someone I find in a standard interview process. A recommendation from an alum that personally knows a young women should hold a lot of weight. No one should recommend a PNM for membership that they don't think would make a great member. Some people interview (recruit) very well. You hire (pledge) them and they are psycho. Hopefully you can avoid those mistakes by having a recommendation.
Amen
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  #23  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:56 AM
Hartofsec Hartofsec is offline
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Originally Posted by DubaiSis View Post
Rush needs to take longer at the huge schools. That it takes virtually the same number of days for IU and for a school with 4 chapters is just insane. Round one should take 3 days so that the parties can last longer and allow more time to talk. And round 2 should be 2 days. If the chapters were relying more on actual conversation they could rely less on paperwork from strangers.
I agree that spending more time in each house would be better – but all rounds except pref are already scheduled to be 2 days long (at Bama anyway). This can be really grueling for the actives, since the chapters often have more parties than the maximum PNMs can attend (due to accommodating numbers in the physical space of the houses). In the bad ol’ days, for instance, on four-party day (now skit day – round 3), the PNMs could attend up to four parties, and each chapter conducted only four parties.

I'm not sure how many more days of recruitment would be needed in order to provide more opportunity for conversation, considering the numbers at some of these schools, but I don't think the actives would survive it!

I don’t know of a solution – just thinking out loud.
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  #24  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:56 AM
amIblue? amIblue? is offline
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Originally Posted by MaryPoppins View Post
"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment" - Francis Urqhart/House of Cards
Whatever. Easy may not have been an appropriate word choice, but if you sort into rec/no rec and no rec = cut, it does simplify things a bit.

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Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor View Post
I totally disagree. I think recs have a very appropriate place in the recruitment process. Think of it this way; I would rather hire someone that comes to me with a personal recommendation then someone I find in a standard interview process. A recommendation from an alum that personally knows a young women should hold a lot of weight. No one should recommend a PNM for membership that they don't think would make a great member. Some people interview (recruit) very well. You hire (pledge) them and they are psycho. Hopefully you can avoid those mistakes by having a recommendation.
While there's no way to get these numbers, I think it would be interesting to know what percentage of recs are actually written by women who know the PNM, and aren't family friends or even friends of friends (see coffee scenario noted above). I have known women over the years who are total wrecks in real life but who are able to hold it together in the kinds of social situations that a family friend would be privy to. The family friend and friend of friends scenarios are less valuable in my opinion.

Anecdotally, I know when I went through, there were 15 chapters on my campus. Of my recs, about half were teachers and friends parents who had spent a significant amount of time with me in every day life. The remainder, not so much. I think it's this remainder category that kind of cheapens the value of a rec.
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  #25  
Old 02-17-2013, 10:22 AM
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sigmagirl2000 sigmagirl2000 is online now
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This rec thing is stressing me out currently. As a high school teacher in Massachusetts, I have a student who has been seeking my help for the last 6 months or so in trying to learn all she can to prepare for recruitment at University of Alabama in the fall. She knows she needs recommendations, but they're very hard to come by. Not all groups are well represented in the Northeast, and it's been hard going trying to find a representative for each group.
This student fears she will be at a major disadvantage being from so far away in an area where she is struggling to meet women to recommend her. Even if she does meet them, it will still not be these "I personally know the PNM" kind of recommendation, yet much time and research has gone into even finding women to do these.
I am struggling to find connections for her as well. This isn't a kid who isn't willing to put in the work, time, effort, etc. It saddens me that a kid who is willing to do all the leg work will still end up with recs that mean less than other pnms who will have more meaningful ones simply because of where the grew up.

End rant.
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  #26  
Old 02-17-2013, 10:42 AM
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AGDee AGDee is offline
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Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000 View Post
This rec thing is stressing me out currently. As a high school teacher in Massachusetts, I have a student who has been seeking my help for the last 6 months or so in trying to learn all she can to prepare for recruitment at University of Alabama in the fall. She knows she needs recommendations, but they're very hard to come by. Not all groups are well represented in the Northeast, and it's been hard going trying to find a representative for each group.
This student fears she will be at a major disadvantage being from so far away in an area where she is struggling to meet women to recommend her. Even if she does meet them, it will still not be these "I personally know the PNM" kind of recommendation, yet much time and research has gone into even finding women to do these.
I am struggling to find connections for her as well. This isn't a kid who isn't willing to put in the work, time, effort, etc. It saddens me that a kid who is willing to do all the leg work will still end up with recs that mean less than other pnms who will have more meaningful ones simply because of where the grew up.

End rant.
Maybe the Greater Boston Alumnae Panhellenic could assist?
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  #27  
Old 02-17-2013, 10:44 AM
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Maybe the Greater Boston Alumnae Panhellenic could assist?
Thanks, yeah, I should have added in that I've sent out emails to them and so has student. I am hoping that the contact info on their site is current. I'm also hoping that we can connect with them as my alumnae chapter can't seem to find a contact with the boston area alumnae Panhellenic, and maybe this will help with that as well so SK could get involved. Hopefully this will be a win win situation.
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  #28  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:10 AM
MaryPoppins MaryPoppins is offline
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"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment" - Francis Urqhart/House of Cards
Please excuse my dry sense of humor, it is wry and sometimes very sarcastic.

Recs/refs help give the lesser known PNMs a chance in a huge PNM class. So many PNMs, up to 50% coming from out of state, recs/refs can only help them. Perhaps the hard requirement for a rec/ref needs to be removed?
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  #29  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:41 AM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor View Post
I totally disagree. I think recs have a very appropriate place in the recruitment process. Think of it this way; I would rather hire someone that comes to me with a personal recommendation then someone I find in a standard interview process. A recommendation from an alum that personally knows a young women should hold a lot of weight. No one should recommend a PNM for membership that they don't think would make a great member. Some people interview (recruit) very well. You hire (pledge) them and they are psycho. Hopefully you can avoid those mistakes by having a recommendation.
I'm on this page....but I will also admit that I am old line southern and Cajun. Both cultures are strong on the "who's your Daddy" element - in fact, it's always stated as one of 3 questions a Cajun boy asks a girl he meets. And I truly do call around on anyone who asks me for a rec if I don't already know her. Granted, not everyone puts the research in but I was "raised" that way and I still do it. I just can't see putting my name on a form approving someone for membership if I didn't really know about her.
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  #30  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:47 AM
MaryPoppins MaryPoppins is offline
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And I truly do call around on anyone who asks me for a rec if I don't already know her. Granted, not everyone puts the research in but I was "raised" that way and I still do it.
In the Mississippi Delta, the question is "And what is your mother's maiden name?" The question, "Where are you from?" deals more with: 1) where you were born; 2) where are "your people" from, and where do you bury "your people." My answers: The Delta, The Delta and Wyoming ; and Sumner.
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