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  #16  
Old 09-11-2012, 08:20 PM
IUHoosiergirl88 IUHoosiergirl88 is offline
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Go pay a visit to Top Law Schools and their forums...you can really learn a lot from those. I'd also recommend the 'bibles' (logic games, logical reasoning, and reading comp)
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  #17  
Old 10-12-2012, 05:22 PM
Psi U MC Vito Psi U MC Vito is offline
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I have now decided the waiting for the results is the worst part of the LSATs.
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  #18  
Old 10-12-2012, 05:54 PM
adpiucf adpiucf is offline
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Actually, the worst part about the LSAT is that it is your gateway to spending six figures on a law school education and not ever being able to pay it off because the market for lawyers is terrible for grads from all tiers of all law schools. I hope you've got a full ride wherever you're going. Or you've just decided to be willfully blind to the facts and statistics out there that law school is the worst possible graduate/professional program out there right now.

Yes, I sound like a Debbie Downer, but I really hope you'll reconsider for your own sake.
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  #19  
Old 10-12-2012, 06:03 PM
KDCat KDCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adpiucf View Post
Actually, the worst part about the LSAT is that it is your gateway to spending six figures on a law school education and not ever being able to pay it off because the market for lawyers is terrible for grads from all tiers of all law schools. I hope you've got a full ride wherever you're going. Or you've just decided to be willfully blind to the facts and statistics out there that law school is the worst possible graduate/professional program out there right now.

Yes, I sound like a Debbie Downer, but I really hope you'll reconsider for your own sake.
You're being realistic. It's that bad out there. Only 55% of the Class of 2011 has long term, legal employment. Do anything other than law school.

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com...than-expected/
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  #20  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:30 PM
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pbear19 pbear19 is offline
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And don't be fooled into thinking that you won't have debt even if you do have a full tuition scholarship. Bills don't pay themselves, and I'm not a fan of being homeless. So although I didn't have to pay for tuition, I've still had to take loans to make up for the fact that I didn't have a full time job anymore.

I'm graduating a semester late because I had a baby, but only a couple of my friends who graduated in May have jobs at this point. Most people I know who do have jobs are not working as attorneys.
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  #21  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:43 PM
adpiucf adpiucf is offline
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Originally Posted by Low C Sharp View Post
I'm sticking with my position that it can still be smart to go to law school if you get into the top 14, you get a hefty scholarship, someone else is paying, you have a guaranteed job waiting for you when you graduate, or ideally, more than one of these factors. But even those folks should proceed with caution.
Your position is completely wrong when it comes to the T14 assertion since the recession and its subsequent fallout, but I'll agree with if all of these factors are present. Law school is not a safe bet for anyone unless you're going for free, have a hefty trust fund, and have no intent of practicing law for a salary when you graduate. And if you have that kind of money, go play around Europe for three years rather than sitting in a classroom learning how to read cases.

ETA: If these warnings save even ONE person from a lifetime of being saddled with an impossible six figure student debt, I'll keep posting the very true doom and gloom associated with a law school education today. Law school is fun, and practicing can be great, no doubt about it. But it is the worst investment you can make with your life these days because the cost is astronomical and payoff is very unlikely-- and if I can talk just ONE of you out of making that mistake, I think I will have done a very good deed.
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Last edited by adpiucf; 10-12-2012 at 09:48 PM.
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  #22  
Old 10-12-2012, 10:19 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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There have been a lot of threads on GC, maybe not specifically about the LSATs, but about the state of the legal profession and how maybe it's not such a good idea to go and rack up a ton of debt. It seems that, unless you have an ace in the hole like a family firm to work for or a low-cost school, it's not the golden ticket to wealth it may have seemed when you were growing up.

The Top 14 may be a safer bet (everyone I know from college who went to a Top 14 is employed at a top firm but most of them graduated law school in 2006 so they were not as affected by the recession as younger folks might be), but all but a handful of those schools are in the most expensive areas in the country. If you ended up at one of those places, which isn't likely, you could have $15-20K of living expenses a year (a conservative estimate, really). Also, I believe the ABA prevents you from working more than 20 hours a week during your 1L year.

In other words, even if you get a "full ride," you could still end up 75-80K in debt and that's assuming you don't have any undergrad debt. That's on top of uprooting your life (unless there's a great law school close enough to avoid moving). Do you love the law that much, or is this more about making more than you do as a teacher?

ETA: I wish GeekyPenguin was around more. I think she posted about her LSAT/law school experience a lot and doing a search of her posts might be helpful for you.
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Last edited by Munchkin03; 10-12-2012 at 10:26 PM.
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  #23  
Old 10-12-2012, 10:33 PM
ASUADPi ASUADPi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adpiucf View Post

ETA: If these warnings save even ONE person from a lifetime of being saddled with an impossible six figure student debt, I'll keep posting the very true doom and gloom associated with a law school education today. Law school is fun, and practicing can be great, no doubt about it. But it is the worst investment you can make with your life these days because the cost is astronomical and payoff is very unlikely-- and if I can talk just ONE of you out of making that mistake, I think I will have done a very good deed.
That is how I sometimes feel about my Bachelors and even Masters degree. I just got a note with my balance and I will be paying the same amount in interest as the loan itself! Sometimes school isn't worth it, but there are jobs that you can't even have without it.
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  #24  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:22 PM
adpiucf adpiucf is offline
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Originally Posted by Low C Sharp View Post
You may disagree with me, but I don't think you have more information about the T14 than I do. I am closely involved with more than one institution in that group. A large majority of graduates still do well, even coming out of Georgetown, to say nothing of HYSNCC. It's not the sure bet it used to be, but it's still a reasonable risk for many people. I just don't agree that everybody borrowing to go to Cornell or Duke is a sucker. It's case by case.
I am closely involved with many, many graduates of T20 and T10 schools who have graduated in the past 3 years. A lot of them graduated with great grades, law review, and are doing doc review for a living because following the 2L summer clerkships, the economy tanked, their offers were revoked or they were no-offered entirely due to economic factors. Or they never got that summer clerkship because hiring dried up completely after the massacre of the summer classes in 2009. There are a lot of very smart, very capable grads of top schools out there who can't find work.

I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you over who knows more graduates of top law schools. LOL. You're welcome to your assertions, as I am to mine, but I urge all would-be lawyers to actually review and research the stats (which are widely available via a google search) out there. The numbers speak for themselves. Law school is no longer a good investment. Tuition is inflated, jobs are scarce, and the schools are overstating their job placement stats.
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  #25  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:35 PM
glittergal1985 glittergal1985 is offline
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I have to jump in to mention that even if you are the lucky one out of 500+ super qualified applicants to land that clerkship, the future isn't very bright. Many end up working somewhere for free with the hope of eventually getting a paying job.
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  #26  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:19 AM
Psi U MC Vito Psi U MC Vito is offline
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*sigh* You know, I am intelligent enough to weight the risks myself without 8 million people telling me it is a bad idea. Also I am getting really tired of the "in this economy" and "now" things. Yes I would be entering next year God willing, but it takes three years to get your degree, possibly 4 if I get into a joint degree program I'm looking at. I'm not going to base long term decisions on what the current finical clusterfuck is.
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  #27  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:26 AM
adpiucf adpiucf is offline
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Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito View Post
*sigh* You know, I am intelligent enough to weight the risks myself without 8 million people telling me it is a bad idea. Also I am getting really tired of the "in this economy" and "now" things. Yes I would be entering next year God willing, but it takes three years to get your degree, possibly 4 if I get into a joint degree program I'm looking at. I'm not going to base long term decisions on what the current finical clusterfuck is.
That doesn't sound intelligent at all, but hey, if you have six figures to blow on an education that will never pay off, go for it. Dream big.
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  #28  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:36 AM
Psi U MC Vito Psi U MC Vito is offline
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Isn't the whole dream big thing what we tell a whole bunch of high schools students who could never afford college in the first place so that they will do what they need to make sure they can go? And what exactly is "paying off"? I'm not one of those people who want to go to law school because I think I'm going to be racking in a six figure salary the second I pass the bar. I want to do it because it is good work that needs to be done, and I'll do what I have to to make sure I can do that work. The whole six figures for an education that will never pay off applies to a undergrad degree as well, but we still encourage people to go to college. Yes it is a big ass risk, and yes, I am scared shitless about figuring out how I iwll pay for it. But I'm not going to let something I have no power over stop me from doing something if I feel it is the right thing for me to do.
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  #29  
Old 10-14-2012, 01:16 AM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito View Post
*sigh* You know, I am intelligent enough to weight the risks myself without 8 million people telling me it is a bad idea. Also I am getting really tired of the "in this economy" and "now" things. Yes I would be entering next year God willing, but it takes three years to get your degree, possibly 4 if I get into a joint degree program I'm looking at. I'm not going to base long term decisions on what the current finical clusterfuck is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito View Post
Isn't the whole dream big thing what we tell a whole bunch of high schools students who could never afford college in the first place so that they will do what they need to make sure they can go? And what exactly is "paying off"? I'm not one of those people who want to go to law school because I think I'm going to be racking in a six figure salary the second I pass the bar. I want to do it because it is good work that needs to be done, and I'll do what I have to to make sure I can do that work. The whole six figures for an education that will never pay off applies to a undergrad degree as well, but we still encourage people to go to college. Yes it is a big ass risk, and yes, I am scared shitless about figuring out how I iwll pay for it. But I'm not going to let something I have no power over stop me from doing something if I feel it is the right thing for me to do.
If this is something you want to do, then go for it! People discouraging you to this extent is quite ridiculous, in my opinion. It's one thing to warn you and to tell you to truly think about it before you go to school... it's another to say that you virtually have no chance of making it, and imply that you're a sucker for even applying.

The thing about a law degree is that you don't have to practice law. Crazy concept, I know. But there are other professions that don't necessarily require a law degree, but having one can definitely help. I see that every day working in the insurance industry.

So again, if you've weighed the pros and cons, and you understand the risks, and you still know that this is REALLY what you want to do, then do it.
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Last edited by ASTalumna06; 10-14-2012 at 01:23 AM.
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  #30  
Old 10-14-2012, 01:24 AM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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And sorry I'm double-posting, but this was taking it a bit too far, I think.

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That doesn't sound intelligent at all, but hey, if you have six figures to blow on an education that will never pay off, go for it. Dream big.
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