Taliban or Tea Party?

[Gingerdeltaz]

Originally Posted by Shellfish

As for the children of politicians, we could go back twenty years ago to when Chelsea Clinton was only 12 or 13 and the subject of nasty jokes by Rush Limbaugh and John McCain.

Those jokes were completely out of line and were both deplorable and unacceptable...as are those regarding the children of any politician.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Gingerdeltaz

Since I want to be open minded to other points of view I will agree that Samuel L. Jackson, someone I consider to be on the far left, is not a nominee and is simply expressing his political views as a private citizen in the public view. Similarly, Rush Limbaugh, someone I consider to be on the far right, was a private citizen in the public view expressing his (equally outrageous) opinion during the birth control controversy about the "character" of Sandra Fluke. He was fodder for the mainstream media and liberal organizations for days...unlike the chirping of crickets regarding Mr. Jackson's remarks.

Is context relevant here? Limbaugh is an influential political commentator with the top-rated talk radio show (15 million listeners). He made his comments on that radio show, and he intended them to be part of his as political discourse. Those comments have both the potential to reflect on the sponsors of his show and to influence lots of Ditto-Heads.

Jackson is an actor who tweeted the comments. Granted, he has over a million followers (seriously?), but still, it's a tweet from an actor. Does anybody really care? (Perhaps my bias is showing. I simply don't see the point of tweeting.)

Limbaugh actually has the ability to influence politics. I don't think the same can be said for Jackson. Under those circumstances, do the two comments carry the same weight or deserve the same response?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Shellfish

33girl (and other Pennsylvanians), ever wonder what John Heinz would be doing now if not for that terrible accident?

YES. Every. Freaking. Minute. You must be channelling my mom. If he hadn't died, I probably wouldn't have taken the step I felt I had to take earlier this year, which is becoming NO Party. Because the Republican Party would probably still be what it was founded to be.

[Low C Sharp]

Rush Limbaugh, someone I consider to be on the far right, was a private citizen in the public view

You don't consider him to be an important player in the political discourse in this country? In fact, arguably the most important and influential advocate on the right? The Republican Party leadership disagrees with you if you think he's got the same role in politics as SLJ does. Limbaugh gave the keynote address at the Conservative Political Action Conference, which has also featured sitting Republican presidents, Sen. Rubio, and pretty much every Republican luminary. The Republican Lt. Gov. and Speaker of the House of Missouri placed his bust in the Missouri Capitol in 2012. GHW Bush invited Limbaugh to spend a night in the Lincoln Bedroom. GW Bush, GHW Bush, and Jeb Bush TOGETHER appeared on his radio show in 2008, called him a friend, and said that he "appreciate[d] the contribution you’ve made" and "I'm proud of you." In 2009, GWB even threw Limbaugh a birthday party in the White House and brought him to a Medal of Freedom ceremony in the Oval Office.

So if people perceive Rush Limbaugh to be intimately connected to and involved with the Republican leadership over the last 20 years, that's because he is. Everybody with any power on the right shows him the greatest respect and honor. You can't begin to compare that to the role of Samuel L. Jackson or any of the "left wing liberals" you've mentioned. (He really doesn't have any peer on either side of the aisle.)

[AOII Angel]

No one looks to Samuel L. Jackson on the left for political commentary, but we all know millions on the right subscribe to Rush Limbaugh, and he is paid a pretty penny for those thoughts. Yet again, your comparison is poor. If you want to compare someone, how about the prayer group that claims to have gotten God to move the hurricane from its intended coarse to Tampa and the GOP convention by sending it to MS/LA. That's not offensive?

[pbear19]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't think it's helpful to have a contest on whose extremists are the looniest or scariest.

This. Gingerdeltaz, this is the problem I have with your post. It sounds like you are trying to say that the Tea Party extremism is ok because there are people on the left who are worse. Do you really want to start a competition where we all trot out examples of idiots on either end of the spectrum? How about the guys who got kicked out of the GOP convention for throwing things and making racist comments to an African American cameraman? Threats on the lives of House Democrats after votes on health care reform?

I'm doing exactly what I agreed with MC is silly to do, but only to illustrate the point. I don't think anyone here is going to say that extremists on either side are ideal. The problem is that many (most?) Tea Party members can be numbered in the "extremist" category, and it's starting to make it look like the entire Republican party belongs in the extremist category, which I do not believe is reality. I would think that more moderate Republicans would be concerned about the image that the Tea Party is giving to the rest of the right.

(I will also agree that comparing a professional political pundit like Limbaugh, someone whose family has long been associated with politics and who is known synonymously with the Republican party, with an actor like Samuel L. Jackson, who is known for being an actor, is laughable.)

[Gingerdeltaz]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I won't participate in the feeding frenzy -- as a moderate Democrat, I agree with almost all you said. I do, though, agree with others that the comparisons you make are apple and oranges, and I do tend to think that the 'left wing liberal" in "left wing liberal Samuel L. Jackson" risks moving away from the civil discourse you rightly call for. It seems to me that labels like "left wing liberal" and "right wing conservative" have pretty much ceased to have any meaning beyond the pejorative "extremist."


Meanwhile, I heartily recommend (again) Patriotic Grace: What It Is and Why We Need It Now by Peggy Noonan.

Your comment about "left wing liberal" and "left wing" really made me stop and think. I must admit that I have used those terms so casually and carelessly, that I did not give enough thought to the fact that they are labels and can certainly be inflammatory.

That was definitely a "teachable moment" for me. You are correct. I have an aversion to labels, yet I was using them myself without having thought them through. It's time to remove those labels from my discussions. Thank you.

I looked at the Peggy Noonan book on Amazon and was impressed by what I saw. I'm getting ready to download it now.

I appreciate that you did not join the feeding frenzy. It's certainly not enjoyable, but I did know that I was setting myself up for it when I chose to share the only differing opinion. I don't take it personally at all and respect that the others submitting posts are simply expressing their views as well.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by Shellfish

As for the children of politicians, we could go back twenty years ago to when Chelsea Clinton was only 12 or 13 and the subject of nasty jokes by Rush Limbaugh and John McCain.

Both sides have done it. No one should be proud of it.

Bristol Palin has now become a public figure in her own right, and frankly, I think she deserves it.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Gingerdeltaz

Your comment about "left wing liberal" and "left wing" really made me stop and think. I must admit that I have used those terms so casually and carelessly, that I did not give enough thought to the fact that they are labels and can certainly be inflammatory.

That was definitely a "teachable moment" for me. You are correct. I have an aversion to labels, yet I was using them myself without having thought them through. It's time to remove those labels from my discussions. Thank you.

No problem. We all have a tendancy to do it, because it becomes part of "the way people speak." We've been condititioned for it.

I looked at the Peggy Noonan book on Amazon and was impressed by what I saw. I'm getting ready to download it now.

Hope you like it. It's been some years since I read it -- I should probably read it again as a "vaccination" for the next two+ months.

[Low C Sharp]

The problem is that many (most?) Tea Party members can be numbered in the "extremist" category, and it's starting to make it look like the entire Republican party belongs in the extremist category

Exactly. In one party, the extremists are engaged in a largely successful campaign to take over. They lost the top of the ticket, but they're setting the agenda that he's following. The toughest hardliners of the old guard are dancing to their tune and/or losing their jobs.

In the other party, the centrists are driving the bus. None of the lefties in the Democratic party (to the extent they remain) have anything like that sort of power and influence. Where's Dennis Kucinich? Where's Lani Guinier? Where are the platform planks calling for single-payer health care, 100 mpg fuel economy standards, a Constitutional amendment banning guns invented after 1789, and a 90% tax on incomes over $1 million? Those would be the real left-wing equivalent of the Grover Norquist/Rush Limbaugh positions.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

Both sides have done it. No one should be proud of it.

Bristol Palin has now become a public figure in her own right, and frankly, I think she deserves it.

I assumed she was talking about Trig Palin, who is still being made the butt of jokes due to his Downs Syndrome.

http://www.tmz.com/2012/08/20/wayne-...t-sarah-palin/

[Low C Sharp]

That is completely tasteless and wrong.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I assumed she was talking about Trig Palin, who is still being made the butt of jokes due to his Downs Syndrome.

http://www.tmz.com/2012/08/20/wayne-...t-sarah-palin/

No serious person has ever made a joke about Trig. Poor baby was a new born when his mama was thrown into the spot light. Honestly, Palin put her own children in the spot light in the way that no other politician ever has. When you use your kids as props, people feel like they are fair game, whether or not that is fair. Comics, which you have pointed out, make a living saying outrageous things. Wayne Brady is not a part of the political dialogue and should not be used as an excuse to ramp up rhetoric. Making fun of those with disabilities is distasteful regardless of their parentage...God knows the joke didn't bother Trig any at his age, but others with Trisomy 21 may not take so kindly to the joke.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

No serious person has ever made a joke about Trig. Poor baby was a new born when his mama was thrown into the spot light. Honestly, Palin put her own children in the spot light in the way that no other politician ever has. When you use your kids as props, people feel like they are fair game, whether or not that is fair. Comics, which you have pointed out, make a living saying outrageous things. Wayne Brady is not a part of the political dialogue and should not be used as an excuse to ramp up rhetoric. Making fun of those with disabilities is distasteful regardless of their parentage...God knows the joke didn't bother Trig any at his age.

If I didn't know better I'd say it sounds like you're defending people who choose to attack Palin's children.

[amIblue?]

I have never heard anyone joke about Trig. That's disgusting. Who does that?