GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Greek Life

Greek Life This forum is for various discussion topics regarding greek life. If you are posting a non-greek related message, please do so in one of the General Chat Topic forums.


Register Now for FREE!
Join GreekChat.com, The Fraternity & Sorority Greek Chat Network. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

» GC Stats
Members: 300,249
Threads: 114,213
Posts: 2,151,527
Welcome to our newest member, cxzdcvfghfjhgj
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 08-13-2012, 05:51 PM
Greek_or_Geek? Greek_or_Geek? is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubaiSis View Post
Interesting. So although many of us find it distasteful, it isn't actually breaking a rule as stated. Probably back in the day NPC considered it a non-issue and hasn't been contested with them to date. If this is your sorority (I didn't read from the original that it is but I might have missed something), you might ask them for their input, but otherwise, it sounds like it is merely distasteful and not actually against the rules. I would try to change your mindset to one that values her variety of experience instead of treating it like an unfaithful spouse. It sounds like you otherwise like her so I'd try to get over it.
That's not exactly correct. From this thread, while it may not be against the rules of NPC organizations, we know it is specifically against the rules of at least one NPHC organization.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08-13-2012, 05:54 PM
Greek_or_Geek? Greek_or_Geek? is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
There is absolutely no way this could backfire.

--for the sarcasm-challenged, I mean this plan would almost definitely backfire.
Not if it's someone who's completely uninvolved with the campus, situation etc. I'm not talking about someone who would recognize the woman's name or people from Greekchat.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 08-13-2012, 05:57 PM
Kevin Kevin is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 18,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek? View Post
Not if it's someone who's completely uninvolved with the campus, situation etc. I'm not talking about someone who would recognize the woman's name or people from Greekchat.
So you think it's a good idea to advise this woman who is the president of her student body to conduct her own investigation by contacting alumnae at both her old undergrad NPC group and with her NPHC group to verify her story and that in doing so, she could safely protect her own identity and not appear to be some sort of stalker and also not have the fact that she is making inquiries leaked back to the Greek Life Adviser?

Someone who is "completely uninvolved" won't know what is going on and won't have any reason to make inquiries on the behalf of a stranger. This is not a good idea.
__________________
SN -SINCE 1869-
"EXCELLING WITH HONOR"
S N E T T
Mu Tau 5, Central Oklahoma
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 08-13-2012, 05:57 PM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek? View Post
That's not exactly correct. From this thread, while it may not be against the rules of NPC organizations, we know it is specifically against the rules of at least one NPHC organization.
Right.

And even in those NPHC organizations who do have rules against it, there are those chapters who willfully break the rules because they like the person, or because the applicant downplays what type of organization it was, or outright lies, etc.

I know plenty of great people who made mistakes in undergrad (not the least of which is pledging the "wrong" organization), but you have to live with those mistakes.

If just one NPHC organization allows this, it really, really damages the entire system in more ways than one.
__________________
I am proud that my last post on this site was telling Kevin to suck my dick.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:03 PM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubaiSis View Post
Interesting. So although many of us find it distasteful, it isn't actually breaking a rule as stated. Probably back in the day NPC considered it a non-issue and hasn't been contested with them to date. If this is your sorority (I didn't read from the original that it is but I might have missed something), you might ask them for their input, but otherwise, it sounds like it is merely distasteful and not actually against the rules. I would try to change your mindset to one that values her variety of experience instead of treating it like an unfaithful spouse. It sounds like you otherwise like her so I'd try to get over it.
It was not breaking an NPC rule but whether it was breaking the NPHC sorority rule remains to be seen (even if the person claims that she was told that it does not break the rules). Based on websites alone, Delta is the only NPHC sorority that explicitly states that applicants cannot be a member of another NPHC or NPC sorority.*** I did not find this on the other NPHC sororities' websites. They may state this during rush/informational or to applicants in another fashion, including verbal and written form. Or, they may let anyone in who in they like and let people slip through the cracks--as SenusretI was talking about. If they slip through the cracks of the chapter, they may slip through the cracks of NHQ if there are no member lists to check.

***That in and of itself is nothing to declare a eureka moment over. The other NPHC sororities may or may not accept an initiated NPC member but, despite it not being explicitly stated on the sorority NHQ's websites, they DEFINITELY do not accept an initiated NPHC member (people whose record of initiation can be accessed by looking up their name in the sorority's records--most people initiated in the past 20 or so years have such records) if the NPHC membership is known. This is not explicitly stated on the non-Delta websites but that is still how they operate. Even if the chapters are being shady, the applications (unless these are underground initiates) have to go to NHQ and 99% of the time the names will be entered properly into databases.

Last edited by DrPhil; 08-13-2012 at 06:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:07 PM
Greek_or_Geek? Greek_or_Geek? is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
So you think it's a good idea to advise this woman who is the president of her student body to conduct her own investigation by contacting alumnae at both her old undergrad NPC group and with her NPHC group to verify her story and that in doing so, she could safely protect her own identity and not appear to be some sort of stalker and also not have the fact that she is making inquiries leaked back to the Greek Life Adviser?

Someone who is "completely uninvolved" won't know what is going on and won't have any reason to make inquiries on the behalf of a stranger. This is not a good idea.
No. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that she needs to make sure the story is actually correct before reporting it anonymously to the NPHC organization if that's what she ultimately decides to do.

As an NPC member, I have been asked on multiple occasions to check and see if someone is a member. It takes about three seconds online and it isn't a strange request, particularly at this time of year. Or like others in this thread mentioned, college yearbooks are online. A look through a few of those may also easily answer this question.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:37 PM
Kevin Kevin is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 18,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek? View Post
No. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that she needs to make sure the story is actually correct before reporting it anonymously to the NPHC organization if that's what she ultimately decides to do.
I may overplay my hand with this lane swerve, but it'd seem a lot more appropriate for the OP to make her report to the NPHC organization allow them to conduct their own internal investigation. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I really doubt they'd want some non-member poking around in their affairs.

I can tell you that if someone asked me whether someone was a member in good standing, I'd be happy to share that information. If, however, they wanted to know the circumstances of a member's joining and what, if any inquiries were made to HQ re dual membership, I'd tell them to tell me what they know and not expect to get any information or even a call back from me unless I needed more information, but that I would be handling things from there. I doubt that OP would fare any differently by making direct inquiries. Now, I can say that I would definitely not contact this person nor would I reveal any information given to me in confidence, but not everyone can be trusted to do that and there's a chance things will get out of hand and there's a chance of retaliation.


Quote:
As an NPC member, I have been asked on multiple occasions to check and see if someone is a member. It takes about three seconds online and it isn't a strange request, particularly at this time of year. Or like others in this thread mentioned, college yearbooks are online. A look through a few of those may also easily answer this question.
That's fine and I'm sure those requests are above-board if you're checking recs and such. This case is asking for quite a bit more information than whether this person is a member in good standing.
__________________
SN -SINCE 1869-
"EXCELLING WITH HONOR"
S N E T T
Mu Tau 5, Central Oklahoma

Last edited by Kevin; 08-13-2012 at 06:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:40 PM
AOII Angel's Avatar
AOII Angel AOII Angel is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Santa Monica/Beverly Hills
Posts: 8,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
I may overplay my hand with this lane swerve, but it'd seem a lot more appropriate for the OP to make her report to the NPHC organization allow them to conduct their own internal investigation. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I really doubt they'd want some non-member poking around in their affairs.

I can tell you that if someone asked me whether someone was a member in good standing, I'd be happy to share that information. If, however, they wanted to know the circumstances of my joining and what, if any inquiries were made to HQ re dual membership, I'd tell them to tell me what they know and not expect to get any information or even a call back from me unless I needed more information, but that I would be handling things from there. I doubt that OP would fare any differently by making direct inquiries. Now, I can say that I would definitely not contact this person nor would I reveal any information given to me in confidence, but not everyone can be trusted to do that and there's a chance things will get out of hand and there's a chance of retaliation.




That's fine and I'm sure those requests are above-board if you're checking recs and such. This case is asking for quite a bit more information than whether this person is a member in good standing.
This. If someone called me asking pointed questions about a sister and our rules, I'd ask, "And who are you? And how is this your business?"
__________________

AOII

One Motto, One Badge, One Bond and Singleness of Heart!




Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:47 PM
DubaiSis DubaiSis is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Back in the Heartland
Posts: 5,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil View Post
It was not breaking an NPC rule but whether it was breaking the NPHC sorority rule remains to be seen (even if the person claims that she was told that it does not break the rules).
While what you say is true, what it says to me is there is enough wiggle room in the rules here that she doesn't need to spend any more time worrying about it. We know what Delta's site says (thanks for that), and knowing there are no unanimous agreements among NPHC sororities (and fraternities, although they don't count in this case) on this subject, and knowing it is specifically not addressed in the NPC unanimous agreements, it gets too "looking for skeletons" for my comfort. Except in 1 case, it appears she is not breaking a rule from either NPC or NPHC. For the OP to spend more time researching to find out if the woman actually did break a rule seems counter-productive and unnecessarily busy-body'ish.

Prior to having this knowledge, I still would have said stay out of it, but would appreciate her discomfort with the situation. Now I say it was a good question to ask this forum because you were able to get good information. You have it - unless she's a Delta she hasn't broken a rule, so move on. And if she still finds it that distasteful, she should present this scenario to NPC and suggest the rules be rewritten for the future.
__________________
"Traveling - It leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller. ~ Ibn Battuta
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:55 PM
Greek_or_Geek? Greek_or_Geek? is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 361
Once again, because apparently I am not making myself clear here. I am not saying the OP should conduct an investigation and contact members of sororities and ask pointed questions about policies, detailed information about a sister or anything else specific. I am merely suggesting that she make a discreet attempt to confirm that this isn't a tall tale before contacting the NPHC organization with a vague story about someone who might have membership in some NPC organization if that's what she ends up deciding she wants to do.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:57 PM
Greek_or_Geek? Greek_or_Geek? is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubaiSis View Post
While what you say is true, what it says to me is there is enough wiggle room in the rules here that she doesn't need to spend any more time worrying about it. We know what Delta's site says (thanks for that), and knowing there are no unanimous agreements among NPHC sororities (and fraternities, although they don't count in this case) on this subject, and knowing it is specifically not addressed in the NPC unanimous agreements, it gets too "looking for skeletons" for my comfort. Except in 1 case, it appears she is not breaking a rule from either NPC or NPHC. For the OP to spend more time researching to find out if the woman actually did break a rule seems counter-productive and unnecessarily busy-body'ish.

Prior to having this knowledge, I still would have said stay out of it, but would appreciate her discomfort with the situation. Now I say it was a good question to ask this forum because you were able to get good information. You have it - unless she's a Delta she hasn't broken a rule, so move on. And if she still finds it that distasteful, she should present this scenario to NPC and suggest the rules be rewritten for the future.
Not having a policy available to the general public does not constitute "wiggle room."
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 08-13-2012, 07:09 PM
sigmadiva sigmadiva is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I View Post
As her constituent, she absolutely has standing to question her life and career.
Yes, but I think the relationship between the OP and the new Dean is not that simple.

This Dean is essentially faculty, a position of power in an academic setting.

The OP is a student, a subordinate to faculty in an academic setting. The OP, I think, has more to loose if she decides to make an issue out of this. She stands to loose her position on student government, and maybe her degree, and this situation is not worth it.

OP, yes, you sat on the interview committee, and your input was used, but I can assure you that your input, as a student, was not the deciding factor to hiring her. You don't know who this new Dean knew at your school to get hired. You don't know any "back room" politics that often happen when people get hired.

If you decide to be the one to "tell it", and make a stink out of it, you may not just hurt the Dean's career, but who ever gave the final okay to hire her.

You need to realize that you are not just going after the Dean, but anyone else who okay'd her to work at your school. What I'm saying is, there may be more targets that you will hit, not just the Dean.

Like I said OP, you have more to loose than this Dean. LET IT GO!!!

The bottom line: Don't tell!!! If the school does not have a problem with it, the Dean and her NPHC sorority don't have a problem with it, and the NPC may not know, then let it go.

You are stirring up mess.
__________________
"I am the center of the universe!! I also like to chew on paper." my puppy
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 08-13-2012, 07:14 PM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubaiSis View Post
While what you say is true, what it says to me is there is enough wiggle room in the rules here that she doesn't need to spend any more time worrying about it. We know what Delta's site says (thanks for that), and knowing there are no unanimous agreements among NPHC sororities (and fraternities, although they don't count in this case) on this subject, and knowing it is specifically not addressed in the NPC unanimous agreements, it gets too "looking for skeletons" for my comfort. Except in 1 case, it appears she is not breaking a rule from either NPC or NPHC. For the OP to spend more time researching to find out if the woman actually did break a rule seems counter-productive and unnecessarily busy-body'ish.

Prior to having this knowledge, I still would have said stay out of it, but would appreciate her discomfort with the situation. Now I say it was a good question to ask this forum because you were able to get good information. You have it - unless she's a Delta she hasn't broken a rule, so move on. And if she still finds it that distasteful, she should present this scenario to NPC and suggest the rules be rewritten for the future.
Re-read the part of my post with the asteriks. Something not being on 3 NPHC sororities' websites does not mean that there are no regulations. For instance, more often than not, an AKA initiated in the past 1-20 years would be damned if she tried to apply to become an SGRho. However, that specification is on neither's website for whatever reasons.

This issue is not about the NPC sorority's regulations. This issue is only about the NPHC sorority's regulations.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 08-13-2012, 07:15 PM
amanda6035 amanda6035 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Smiths Station, AL
Posts: 1,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek? View Post
So here's a theoretical. What if she actually didn't tell the truth in the interview and she was never a member of an NPC organization? What if she came up with that answer on the fly to make her look like she could relate to two different sides of Greek life and didn't realize it wasn't something that should be done until the OP brought it up? Now her tale of getting the NPHC organization to approve her membership is covering her tracks that she lied during the interview?
Exactly what I was thinking... you beat me to it!
__________________
AΞΔ - Courage, Graciousness, & Peace
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 08-13-2012, 07:32 PM
Kevin Kevin is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 18,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek? View Post
Once again, because apparently I am not making myself clear here. I am not saying the OP should conduct an investigation and contact members of sororities and ask pointed questions about policies, detailed information about a sister or anything else specific. I am merely suggesting that she make a discreet attempt to confirm that this isn't a tall tale before contacting the NPHC organization with a vague story about someone who might have membership in some NPC organization if that's what she ends up deciding she wants to do.
I don't care what you call it, that is conducting an independent investigation in which she must poke around in affairs which are none of her business to get the information she seeks. How do you propose she finds out whether an HQ was contacted during membership intake to clear the dual membership issue in an alumnae organization without contacting any members of that organization?

Impossible.

If she does anything, she can report what she knows to the NPHC organization and let them conduct their own internal investigation. That is assuming that she is allowed to disclose information she obtained during the interview process (she may have signed a non-disclosure or there might be some state law on that issue). In such a case, it would certainly be reasonable for the accused to speculate that OP was the source of the information.

Also, OP cannot count 100% on the discretion of the national office if she reveals her information. If she doesn't reveal her information, she can't count on the fact that the national office is going to put much time tracking down a report from an anonymous source.
__________________
SN -SINCE 1869-
"EXCELLING WITH HONOR"
S N E T T
Mu Tau 5, Central Oklahoma
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
greek advisor josh8o Careers & Employment 46 07-22-2008 03:43 PM
Article: Is Greek System Broken...Can it be reparied...Should it... DeltAlum Risk Management - Hazing & etc. 11 06-04-2008 05:18 AM
Greek Advisor Coramoor Greek Life 2 01-22-2006 02:49 PM
My Litte Greek Heart Is Broken!!! phillyinterest6 Alpha Phi Alpha 68 06-28-2005 12:19 AM
need a job, how about greek advisor. rainbowbrightCS Chit Chat 7 03-23-2004 07:37 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.