The Murder of Trayvon Martin

[Low C Sharp]

I guess this case is no longer as sexy for the media to cover it now that there's a reasonable chance that Martin was the one who initiated the physical violence.

There never was all that much to say. Hell.. when we were on media blitz mode when this thing started, or rather when the national media picked it up, there was a lot less to say than there is right now.

Really -- so you don't think the fact that Zimmerman was finally charged had anything to do with the quieting down of attention?

Scenario 1: A man shot and killed an unarmed minor and walked away free without even a grand jury investigation. Scenario 2: A man shot and killed an unarmed minor, got charged with second-degree murder, and the justice system tries to determine what happened.

Scenario 1 is shocking, almost unprecedented. Scenario 2, unfortunately, happens every day in this country. Scenario 2 barely makes the local news unless the events were extra grisly. It's normal. This case (thanks to national media attention and general outrage) morphed from 1 to 2. Why should people pay equal attention before and after the change?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Really -- so you don't think the fact that Zimmerman was finally charged had anything to do with the quieting down of attention?

Scenario 1: A man shot and killed an unarmed minor and walked away free without even a grand jury investigation. Scenario 2: A man shot and killed an unarmed minor, got charged with second-degree murder, and the justice system tries to determine what happened.

Scenario 1 is shocking, almost unprecedented. Scenario 2, unfortunately, happens every day in this country. Scenario 2 barely makes the local news unless the events were extra grisly. It's normal. This case (thanks to national media attention and general outrage) morphed from 1 to 2. Why should people pay equal attention before and after the change?

Scenario 1 happens quite a bit. It's neither shocking nor unprecedented. It's called prosecutorial discretion. That's probably why it took so long to charge. In murder cases, prosecutors aren't always going to charge a crime when they know the Defendant has a pretty solid defense.

[DrPhil]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ort/55046944/1

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1080182

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/17...ound-fired-at/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnes...ry?id=16371852

[knight_shadow]

Well, now.



Google link

[DrPhil]

Idiots. Young fools.

[Mevara]

Seriously?! Whether you believe Zimmerman or not where is the respect for Trayvon Martin's family?

[DrPhil]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=16616864


As they said on GMA this morning, this story is just TOO perfect. It is TOO perfect that Zimmerman seems to have covered all of his bases.


Zimmerman followed Martin (against the advice of the 911 Dispatcher) and just so happened to have a gun. And then Martin just so happens to be the one who initiated an altercation (Martin's girlfriend admits that he wanted to see why Zimmerman was following him). Martin just so happens to see Zimmerman's gun. Martin just so happens to say "you're going to die tonight" and reach for the gun which prompts Zimmerman to grab his gun and fatally shoot Martin. Yeah, Zimmerman was such the subdued victim here (who just so happened to follow someone who he considered suspicious) who just so happened to have a gun on his hip.


We shall see if the prosecution can find inconsistencies.


Elements of this remind me of Latasha Harlins. The biggest lesson that I hope people learn from all of these cases is to breathe easy and not be Belinda Badass/Billy Badass (regardless of whether your state has an exaggerated version of self-defense laws). Take even a quick second to think about whether your actions are over the top and irreversible.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=16616864


As they said on GMA this morning, this story is just TOO perfect. It is TOO perfect that Zimmerman seems to have covered all of his bases.


Zimmerman followed Martin (against the advice of the 911 Dispatcher) and just so happened to have a gun. And then Martin just so happens to be the one who initiated an altercation (Martin's girlfriend admits that he wanted to see why Zimmerman was following him). Martin just so happens to see Zimmerman's gun. Martin just so happens to say "you're going to die tonight" and reach for the gun which prompts Zimmerman to grab his gun and fatally shoot Martin. Yeah, Zimmerman was such the subdued victim here (who just so happened to follow someone who he considered suspicious) who just so happened to have a gun on his hip.


We shall see if the prosecution can find inconsistencies.


Elements of this remind me of Latasha Harlins. The biggest lesson that I hope people learn from all of these cases is to breathe easy and not be Belinda Badass/Billy Badass (regardless of whether your state has an exaggerated version of self-defense laws). Take even a quick second to think about whether your actions are over the top and irreversible.

His defense would have had an easier time selling this story if he hadn't been proven a liar over the bail money. That will come back to haunt him later. Tsk, tsk.

[Kevin]

Being a liar doesn't make you a killer.

I agree, it's a pretty dramatic picture he paints there as if someone told him what elements he needed to perfect a defense. That doesn't mean it didn't happen or that the state can prove it didn't happen beyond a reasonable doubt.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Being a liar doesn't make you a killer.

I agree, it's a pretty dramatic picture he paints there as if someone told him what elements he needed to perfect a defense. That doesn't mean it didn't happen or that the state can prove it didn't happen beyond a reasonable doubt.

Certainly doesnt, but you know as well as I do that it will effect his credibility.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Certainly doesnt, but you know as well as I do that it will effect his credibility.

He doesn't have to take the stand and I doubt he does. It's going to be the state's job to prove he didn't kill in self-defense. I'm not really sure how they're going to accomplish that.

[Elephant Walk]

It's funny to go back through this thread and see the people unbelievably manipulated by the media. There's a lot of that in this thread

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=16616864


As they said on GMA this morning, this story is just TOO perfect. It is TOO perfect that Zimmerman seems to have covered all of his bases.


Zimmerman followed Martin (against the advice of the 911 Dispatcher) and just so happened to have a gun. And then Martin just so happens to be the one who initiated an altercation (Martin's girlfriend admits that he wanted to see why Zimmerman was following him). Martin just so happens to see Zimmerman's gun. Martin just so happens to say "you're going to die tonight" and reach for the gun which prompts Zimmerman to grab his gun and fatally shoot Martin. Yeah, Zimmerman was such the subdued victim here (who just so happened to follow someone who he considered suspicious) who just so happened to have a gun on his hip.


We shall see if the prosecution can find inconsistencies.

My problem with Zimmerman's story is that he said that Martin reached for the gun and, at the same time, continued to bash his head into the concrete. Unless Martin had three hands, it's hard to understand how that could happen.

His story just isn't credible. The logistics are weird and the dialogue is corny.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by KDCat

Unless Martin had three hands, it's hard to understand how that could happen.

I think you misstate the evidence and its conclusivity. It only takes one hand to control someone's head.

As far as Martin going for Zimmerman's gun, that seems to be pretty subjective from Zimmerman's point of view, but according to the law, if his point of view was reasonable, that's all she wrote.

The state is going to have to prove Zimmerman was not acting in self defense and they're going to have to do that without the help of Zimmerman. With the perjury charges, no way in hell he takes the stand.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's a hell of an uphill climb. Having just had a client confess to a serious felony on the 10 o'clock news just prior to hiring me to defend him, I can certainly appreciate the fact that obtaining counsel is a very important part of criminal defense.

The question here isn't whether Zimmerman is actually guilty, it's whether the state of Florida can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think you misstate the evidence and its conclusivity. It only takes one hand to control someone's head.

As far as Martin going for Zimmerman's gun, that seems to be pretty subjective from Zimmerman's point of view, but according to the law, if his point of view was reasonable, that's all she wrote.

The state is going to have to prove Zimmerman was not acting in self defense and they're going to have to do that without the help of Zimmerman. With the perjury charges, no way in hell he takes the stand.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's a hell of an uphill climb. Having just had a client confess to a serious felony on the 10 o'clock news just prior to hiring me to defend him, I can certainly appreciate the fact that obtaining counsel is a very important part of criminal defense.

The question here isn't whether Zimmerman is actually guilty, it's whether the state of Florida can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

If Zimmerman's case is going to very difficult to sell to a jury. The Martin was unarmed and has no history of violence. He was a kid. The girlfriend will testify that he was scared and trying to get away from Zimmerman. Another neighbor will testify that Martin was crying for help.

Another neighbor will testify that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. Zimmerman had physical injuries to the back of his head and, IRC, a broken nose.

I think Zimmerman has to take the stand, because so much of what happened depends on whether Zimmerman is credible or not. It is going to turn on whether the jury likes him and believes him. If he can't testify, it's going to be hard to sell the story.