GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Recruitment

Recruitment General discussion about recruitment.


Register Now for FREE!
Join GreekChat.com, The Fraternity & Sorority Greek Chat Network. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

» GC Stats
Members: 297,022
Threads: 114,111
Posts: 2,150,295
Welcome to our newest member, amximustopa2296
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 10-18-2011, 09:17 PM
Leslie Anne Leslie Anne is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Someplace fabulous!
Posts: 2,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Because they don't have to. There is no consequence if they don't learn it. That has nothing to do with a pledge period being 2 weeks long or 20 weeks long.
Absolutely agree. We barely ask anything of "pledges" anymore. It's what is done with the time they have that makes a difference.

The drop out rate I talked about with the KD Pres. could very well have a great deal to do with this new softened approach to "new member" programs rather than just the shortened period. I think the shift happened for both around the same time. I wish I could have had that discussion with her.
__________________
Kappa Delta

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-18-2011, 10:01 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,816
^^^A big part of retention = the extent to which NMs responsibilities match up with the responsibilities they WILL have once initiated.

For example: if you go from "cake, presents, not actually being required to attend anything, YAY!" to "you must hold a chair or be on a committee, meet 90% of attendance points, and participate in at least x study hours per week" you're going to have a retention issue because your NMs are going from zero to 60 in 2 months.

I'm a big fan of programs that require some of the same things of NMs that will be required of them once initiated. For example: Requiring NMs to do study hours and meet attendance points and come to chapter every week just like everyone else. I know that ours and a few other NPC's programs are the same way.

I've heard of situations in some NM programs where you can miss like half of your NM meetings, come to like one event, and you are still allowed to be initiated. Obviously that NM is going to terminate her membership once she sees that she went from having to do nothing to having a full slate of expectations.
__________________
"Remember that apathy has no place in our Sorority." - Kelly Jo Karnes, Pi

Lakers Nation.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-19-2011, 01:02 AM
aephi alum aephi alum is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Big Easy
Posts: 9,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
The real retention issue is that critical first year after initiation (the period from after initiation to about fall of sophomore year.) That's where I find that sororities have the biggest issues retention-wise.
That, plus the retention of seniors who rushed and pledged the moment they set foot on campus, and have gotten burned out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
^^^A big part of retention = the extent to which NMs responsibilities match up with the responsibilities they WILL have once initiated.

For example: if you go from "cake, presents, not actually being required to attend anything, YAY!" to "you must hold a chair or be on a committee, meet 90% of attendance points, and participate in at least x study hours per week" you're going to have a retention issue because your NMs are going from zero to 60 in 2 months.

<snip>

I've heard of situations in some NM programs where you can miss like half of your NM meetings, come to like one event, and you are still allowed to be initiated. Obviously that NM is going to terminate her membership once she sees that she went from having to do nothing to having a full slate of expectations.
Agreed.

Our NMs have to meet certain minimum requirements before they can be initiated. A portion of those requirements can be met by attending chapter or by joining committees (they're obviously not allowed if anything ritual is going on, but they can at least get a whiff of the business aspect of being a sister). This way, they have a decent understanding of what it means to be a full sister, before they actually become full sisters.

One chapter at my school ran a 4-week NM program during my freshman year. They met quota, but fewer than half of that class were still affiliated when we graduated.
__________________
AEΦ ... Multa Corda, Una Causa ... Celebrating Over 100 Years of Sisterhood
Have no place I can be since I found Serenity, but you can't take the sky from me...
All things are possible if you only believe.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-19-2011, 03:12 AM
melindawarren melindawarren is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Torchwood Three
Posts: 294
First, I have a question: when did the shift from longer NM periods to shorter NM periods begin?

I ask because I wonder if maybe-just maybe-the economy of the last few years could be a cause of larger post-initiation dropouts. But I don't know when the NM period went from a semester to a few weeks, so I could be totally off-base.

I know some people who dropped during the NM period (several different sororities. I hate to sound clueless, but I only know-like, actually KNOW well enough to comment-three guys in fraternities, and I know they're all still in their respective orgs) because they realized the time commitment was too great. Unless there are groups out there where the time thing really just doesn't get mentioned until after initiation, I don't really see that as the problem.

Another thing I've wondered about-and this is just speculation, and I hope I don't get jumped all over for saying this, but it's something I've thought about-how big are the groups we're talking about here? I mean, there've been monster pledge classes in the last few years. I just think that there may be girls who drop after a certain amount of time because they just don't feel like they can make any headway in such a large group (I don't just mean leadership-wise. How can such a large group mix with a fraternity? What about sisterhood activities?). I can't really speak to it because I'm not in something very big, but I can only imagine that, with a huge group, someone could get lost in the shuffle. But this is all just speculation.

One last idea: maybe new member programs aren't targeting the important information. Maybe, if retention really is an issue, the new member program needs to address the lifelong bonds of a fraternity or sorority. My best friend and I just had a conversation about how most people our age are very focused on what's going on right now. Today's Wednesday (yes, it's very early Wednesday, but it's Wednesday nonetheless), and I've barely heard discussion of anything going on beyond Friday (she hadn't heard discussion of anything beyond the weekend, either, and she goes to another school). The concept of "lifetime membership" or, well, anything lasting a lifetime seems intangible to this generation because everything gets upgraded and re-released as new tomorrow, the next day or the day after. The concept of lifelong membership thrills me, but I get how some people just don't get the "lifelong" part.

Ok, I don't know if anything I've said links to anything else I've said. I just had some ideas/questions and the title of the thread intrigued me.
__________________

MelindaWarren aka Bellatrix Lestrange
Wanna follow me on Pinterest? PM me!
"It is our choices that show who we truly are, far more than our abilities."-Albus Dumbledore
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-19-2011, 10:13 AM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ILL-INI
Posts: 7,176
Send a message via AIM to DeltaBetaBaby
MW brings up finances, which are really important. NM's in my chapter got hit with a lot of stuff up front (badge fee, initiation fee, parlor fee), and if they had trouble, we'd put them on payment plans to space it out more, but if someone really can't pay, they can't pay. I hate to say it, but GLOs cost money, and if someone is really not in a financial position to be in one, we shouldn't delay the inevitable.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-19-2011, 10:26 AM
agzg agzg is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: but I am le tired...
Posts: 7,239
I thought for sure this would be a conversation about accelerated associate degree programs (16-18 months) and was going to say "yes, I do think that many people who can't hang with being in class 38-40 hours a week drop out quite often."
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-19-2011, 10:40 AM
DaffyKD DaffyKD is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: When you find me, please let me know
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by melindawarren View Post
First, I have a question: when did the shift from longer NM periods to shorter NM periods begin?
MW, I don't know about any other sororities, but Kappa Delta changed to a shorter NM period at their 1993 convention. I do not know how the NM period works as I had been a alumna for a long time before the change. I do know that at least one chapter does do something with one of the local alumnae chapters so that the NMs can be introduced at a very early stage to the long time bonds that are formed. My AC will be meeting with some of the girls (initiated members and a few girls who became new members 2 weeks ago) for lunch on Saturday. We will do a Founder's Day event and share how KD is a long term part of our lives.

DaffyKD
__________________
KD
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-19-2011, 10:46 AM
ComradesTrue ComradesTrue is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,906
I hold a position where I have access to my chapter's member database. The increase in resignations increased dramatically in the immediate years after the shortened iniation period was instituted and has held steady since that time. I won't release the exact numbers, as I feel that should be member info only, but suffice it to say that I think there is a statistically significant link.

For context, this is a chapter where total was 120 in the 90s, now 150. Dues are not astronomical, as the chapter houses are owned by the university and the 36 students who live in them pay the housing portion of dues. Any student who worked even 10 hours a week would be able to cover her dues each semester.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melindawarren View Post
First, I have a question: when did the shift from longer NM periods to shorter NM periods begin?

I ask because I wonder if maybe-just maybe-the economy of the last few years could be a cause of larger post-initiation dropouts. But I don't know when the NM period went from a semester to a few weeks, so I could be totally off-base.
I pledged in 1992, and my Theta chapter was among the very last to switch to a shorter new member period. By Fall 1993, when we switched, I believe all Theta chapters were shortened. At that time, ADPi nationally had completed (or almost completed, not sure) their switch. None of the other 8 chapters on my campus had switched, but many of them were being encouraged to do so by their HQs. I suspect the switch really ramped up by the mid 90s.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-19-2011, 12:10 PM
Mevara Mevara is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
^^^This is why I was SUPER happy that when we launched Essential Sigma (switching from just NM ed to total member ed) that we kept our New Member Test as a component of the NM sequence of the program. I feel like it impresses important info into your brain because you have to pass to initiate.

When I was in the chapter I was in charge of Initiation one year. I tried to give the NMs a test about our history,founders etc. and was told I could not. Giving them a test was considered hazing and we were very good about not hazing. Ever since then I have felt the NMs (and later as actives) knew very little about what our sorority on a local or national level really was about.
__________________
The way to gain a good reputation, is to endeavor to be what you desire to appear. - Socrates
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-19-2011, 12:46 PM
melindawarren melindawarren is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Torchwood Three
Posts: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaffyKD View Post
My AC will be meeting with some of the girls (initiated members and a few girls who became new members 2 weeks ago) for lunch on Saturday. We will do a Founder's Day event and share how KD is a long term part of our lives.
That sounds like a really good way to reinforce the concept of lifelong commitment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaffyKD View Post
MW, I don't know about any other sororities, but Kappa Delta changed to a shorter NM period at their 1993 convention. I do not know how the NM period works as I had been a alumna for a long time before the change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondie93 View Post
I pledged in 1992, and my Theta chapter was among the very last to switch to a shorter new member period. By Fall 1993, when we switched, I believe all Theta chapters were shortened. At that time, ADPi nationally had completed (or almost completed, not sure) their switch. None of the other 8 chapters on my campus had switched, but many of them were being encouraged to do so by their HQs. I suspect the switch really ramped up by the mid 90s.
DaffyKD doesn't know (as she says in her post), but this leads me to another question: what is the difference between longer and shorter NM programs? That sounds like a ridiculous question, but did groups cut large amounts of information from their educational programs and things like that? How did they shorten them, and what did they lose in the shortening process? Did they have to cram so much in that the girls just feel lost?

Obviously, that's a tough question to answer, and you can't answer in too much detail, but I'm curious how NM programs changed once they were shortened.
__________________

MelindaWarren aka Bellatrix Lestrange
Wanna follow me on Pinterest? PM me!
"It is our choices that show who we truly are, far more than our abilities."-Albus Dumbledore
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-19-2011, 12:47 PM
HQWest HQWest is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by melindawarren View Post

One last idea: maybe new member programs aren't targeting the important information. Maybe, if retention really is an issue, the new member program needs to address the lifelong bonds of a fraternity or sorority. My best friend and I just had a conversation about how most people our age are very focused on what's going on right now. Today's Wednesday (yes, it's very early Wednesday, but it's Wednesday nonetheless), and I've barely heard discussion of anything going on beyond Friday (she hadn't heard discussion of anything beyond the weekend, either, and she goes to another school). The concept of "lifetime membership" or, well, anything lasting a lifetime seems intangible to this generation because everything gets upgraded and re-released as new tomorrow, the next day or the day after. The concept of lifelong membership thrills me, but I get how some people just don't get the "lifelong" part.
.
I don't think it has anything to do with the shortened new member period. I think that this might be why we see more women resigning as members, but I think the more girls were resigning as new members early. I think MW hit it on the head when she mentioned the generational shift to a very now focused group in combination with huge recruitment numbers. I think there are a lot of girls who walk in on Bid Day and expect to have 100 new best friends, and when they aren't suddenly Miss Popular Elle Woods they are disappointed. They set their expectations so high that when we don't meet them or they don't get their first choice they get unhappy. RPW helps more women get placed, but still a lot of girls get their second choice, and its getting a lot harder to help them find their way and be happy in the chapter.

On the one hand we encourage women to go through recruitment to meet people, but some of them, once they do, that was really all they wanted to do. Others like the idea of a sorority, but once they found out about grade requirements, study hours, philanthropy hours, and that sorority women are expected to behave like ladies, they lost interest. Throw in a tough economy and that can be one more thing they are trying to juggle with college.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-19-2011, 12:57 PM
HQWest HQWest is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by melindawarren View Post
That sounds like a really good way to reinforce the concept of lifelong commitment.

DaffyKD doesn't know (as she says in her post), but this leads me to another question: what is the difference between longer and shorter NM programs? That sounds like a ridiculous question, but did groups cut large amounts of information from their educational programs and things like that? How did they shorten them, and what did they lose in the shortening process? Did they have to cram so much in that the girls just feel lost?

Obviously, that's a tough question to answer, and you can't answer in too much detail, but I'm curious how NM programs changed once they were shortened.
When our group shortened the NM program, it took out some of the "getting to know you" activities, and switched to a more focused, meeting type format to cover specific important historical or philosophical ideal material. The problem is it is a kind of seminar format with outside reading, and before it was more like history class or learning with games. We have to be more organized now for it to work well. Several Big/Lil sis activities are now combined with chapter meetings. We actually have more than one option so that you can extend this out a little - say skip a meeting for Greek week when the girls will be doing a lot with the chapter anyway. The meetings are more focused on the new members and less on becoming involved with the chapter.

If you go and look at the chapter myths thread - famous people that aren't really Greek or weird legends that can't be true, I think a bunch of that springs up from the girls not really retaining that information when you have a really short pledge period.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-19-2011, 03:39 PM
crescent&pearls crescent&pearls is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Look to the western skies!
Posts: 154
I can't help but think that the changes in demands on students since we went to the shortened NM period in the early 90s, as well as the explosion of opportunities for students combined with changing student demographics have affected member retention across the board. For example, there wasn't a single member of my chapter during the four years I was an "active" who participated in a study abroad or semester-at-sea program. Today, the same university actively encourages every student in every major program to study abroad and even requires it for some majors. Few students lived on campus in university housing. Today, the univ requires most frosh to live in the dorms they built, and they offer incentives to sophs to stay living in the dorms even though the cost is far above living in Greek or off campus housing.

Almost every member of my chapter worked part time, but few took more than 12-14 units per semester. Most students expected to be on the 5 year plan, or more if they intended to get a teaching credential or professional license i.e. CPA, real estate, nursing, PT etc. Today I see fewer students are working while in college, both because there are fewer jobs for college students and there is a lot more pressure to graduate on schedule in 4 years because the cost of tuition and housing has multiplied exponentially. Financial aid makes it possible for more kids to go to college, and increasing enrollment has resulted in big recruitment numbers and opened up the doors for a more socio-economically diverse group of students to experience Greek Life. That's great, but overall GLOs haven't really adapted the programming or the member expectations much to mesh well with the broad group of students who are our members today. Even though we've made modifications to recruitment and the new member period, overall we're all still pretty much following the same model we were in the 1950's when most members were more alike socio-economically than they are today. So maybe we shouldn't be that surprised that what worked 50-60 years ago, or even 20-25 years ago, does not create the same results today.
__________________

True Lives to Live From Day to Day


Last edited by crescent&pearls; 10-19-2011 at 05:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-19-2011, 05:07 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevara View Post
When I was in the chapter I was in charge of Initiation one year. I tried to give the NMs a test about our history,founders etc. and was told I could not. Giving them a test was considered hazing and we were very good about not hazing. Ever since then I have felt the NMs (and later as actives) knew very little about what our sorority on a local or national level really was about.
Yeah, the only reason it's not for us is because it's a part of the program. I don't know if every chapter does this, but mine had initiated members re-take it every year with the NMs too, just as a refresher.

Also, and this is just my own opinion here, I feel like there's a link in retention and the Big-Little Sis program. Too often, I think the Big/Little relationship becomes mostly about gifts and chapters don't use it to its full potential as a MENTOR relationship, which is what I feel it's meant to be. My Big did WAY more for me than just give me presents. I am who I am today in Sigma because she modeled involvement to me and I said "I want to be like that."
__________________
"Remember that apathy has no place in our Sorority." - Kelly Jo Karnes, Pi

Lakers Nation.

Last edited by KSUViolet06; 10-19-2011 at 05:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-19-2011, 06:51 PM
thetalady's Avatar
thetalady thetalady is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Big D
Posts: 2,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
Also, and this is just my own opinion here, I feel like there's a link in retention and the Big-Little Sis program. Too often, I think the Big/Little relationship becomes mostly about gifts and chapters don't use it to its full potential as a MENTOR relationship,
AMEN!!! I agree that the Big/ Little program is absolutely key to retention, a cohesive chapter and even involvement as an alum after graduation.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shorter U ZTA Chapter Recognized for Highest Grades Nationwide exlurker Greek Life 4 03-06-2011 01:45 PM
College Drop-Outs DSTRen13 Greek Life 12 01-02-2008 04:09 PM
Shorter College Update zetamere Zeta Tau Alpha 9 05-04-2006 07:22 AM
Dating Shorter Men DopeZeta Zeta Phi Beta 22 03-31-2001 11:14 AM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.