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  #61  
Old 09-05-2011, 01:42 PM
DubaiSis DubaiSis is offline
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I think a person cannot argue with the fact that a LOT more girls are getting placed in chapters these days than before RFM was in place. No, it's not perfect and I think NPC would love to hear of a logical, fair, easy to incorporate system that allows more women to be placed in more chapters on as many campuses as possible, and with less heartache. It is no one's goal to leave any girls out in the cold, but the sorting hat only exists at Hogwarts, and short of that, there is going to be exclusion, top and bottom chapters and girls most and least desired by a lot of the chapters. It's just the way it is, and in the meantime a goal should be to be as nice as possible to all hosts and all guests. And that means, among other things, attending all parties to which you were invited. Unfortunately, you do sometimes have to dictate courtesy to people who don't know better. So you have free will vs. combatting teenagers who have not yet been trained in the social graces. What do you do?
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  #62  
Old 09-05-2011, 02:06 PM
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AOII Angel AOII Angel is offline
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I have to tell you, I just sat through a testimonial from a sister last night who was telling her chapter sisters not to discount girls who may have been disinterested early in the process. She didn't want us and cried when she got her bid, but in her own words, "I fell in love with all these wonderful women and I wouldn't have it any other way." She'd have been robbed of sisterhood and a wonderful experience without this system.
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  #63  
Old 09-05-2011, 02:16 PM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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MEMBERSHIP selection is mutual - the chapter has to want the pnm; the pnm has to want the chapter. The chapter indicates they want a pnm by including her on their bid list(s) and inviting her to pref; a pnm indicates she wants a chapter by listing it (them) on her bid card. If she doesn't want a chapter she simply need not put it on her card - she runs a risk of not being placed at all. If a chapter doesn't want a pnm it will not invite her to pref.

PARTY selection is not mutual - all chapters have to invite all pnms to the first round; sometimes pnms have to go to all the parties to which they are invited. I don't see having to sit through a party for an hour at a chapter you might think you are not interested in as some horrible, awful torture pnms are forced to endure.
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  #64  
Old 09-05-2011, 03:08 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
MEMBERSHIP selection is mutual - the chapter has to want the pnm; the pnm has to want the chapter. The chapter indicates they want a pnm by including her on their bid list(s) and inviting her to pref; a pnm indicates she wants a chapter by listing it (them) on her bid card. If she doesn't want a chapter she simply need not put it on her card - she runs a risk of not being placed at all. If a chapter doesn't want a pnm it will not invite her to pref.

PARTY selection is not mutual - all chapters have to invite all pnms to the first round; sometimes pnms have to go to all the parties to which they are invited. I don't see having to sit through a party for an hour at a chapter you might think you are not interested in as some horrible, awful torture pnms are forced to endure.
This....and since "we" are the organization which "owns" the thing the PNM wants and we can "give" it away, we should get to choose to whom we give it. If not then we could all be members of one or more groups. Hey, let's belong to all of them! Then it's not so special any longer...
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  #65  
Old 09-05-2011, 03:35 PM
AnchorAlumna AnchorAlumna is offline
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Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
I'm also tired of posters acting as if recruitment has not been improved.
I think it has indeed improved. The RFM system has been a godsend to smaller chapters and has built up the entire system where it has been used.
A few years before my rush (which was 1,055 years ago), the practice was for rushees to be invited to half the sororities for first round. You didn't even get to look at all the groups to begin with, and they didn't get a look at you.
The "open house" rounds where rushees visited every sorority was revolutionary at the time.
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  #66  
Old 09-05-2011, 04:02 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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When I went thru in 1963 we all went to every house the first day. So anything less was before my time. And I had a very perfect rush...and am very lucky that I did. I don't know personally what it's like to not get invited back to a chapter. Many girls were in that boat with me however. And I'm the one who made the final selection. Back then at my school, you picked which pref you went to first and which second. By doing so, you indicated which group was tops with you at that point in time. If you went to the last pref, they were your top choice. I rather like that but have no idea how you would do it with 1400 PNMs! Rather tough to manage I would think.
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  #67  
Old 09-05-2011, 04:26 PM
DeltaBetaBaby DeltaBetaBaby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
MEMBERSHIP selection is mutual - the chapter has to want the pnm; the pnm has to want the chapter. The chapter indicates they want a pnm by including her on their bid list(s) and inviting her to pref; a pnm indicates she wants a chapter by listing it (them) on her bid card. If she doesn't want a chapter she simply need not put it on her card - she runs a risk of not being placed at all. If a chapter doesn't want a pnm it will not invite her to pref.

PARTY selection is not mutual - all chapters have to invite all pnms to the first round; sometimes pnms have to go to all the parties to which they are invited. I don't see having to sit through a party for an hour at a chapter you might think you are not interested in as some horrible, awful torture pnms are forced to endure.
Thank you, you have said this so well!

I did some math in another thread showing how a lower quota often helps a small chapter. If that small chapter wanted to release a ton of women to make quota artificially low, everyone else on campus would be outraged. The same is true when a PNM wants to skip parties. RFM requires everyone to play the game properly on both sides.
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  #68  
Old 09-05-2011, 05:35 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
PARTY selection is not mutual - all chapters have to invite all pnms to the first round; sometimes pnms have to go to all the parties to which they are invited. I don't see having to sit through a party for an hour at a chapter you might think you are not interested in as some horrible, awful torture pnms are forced to endure.
Exactly. Yes, the sorority members (or the PNMs, for that matter) might not be "your style" but for the love of all that's holy, you are going to have to learn to converse and be polite with people who are "not your style" at some point in your life. If you think every community meeting and work situation is going to be filled with people who are just like you who you'll be blabbing away intimately with in 2.5 seconds, you're in for a very rude awakening.

If the worst thing that happens to you ever is that you have to spend 20 minutes at a party with a girl who has nothing to say, your life is pretty easy peasy. To say that PNMs shouldn't have to go through it is just making the "entitlement generation" even worse.
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  #69  
Old 09-05-2011, 06:14 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
If the worst thing that happens to you ever is that you have to spend 20 minutes at a party with a girl who has nothing to say, your life is pretty easy peasy. To say that PNMs shouldn't have to go through it is just making the "entitlement generation" even worse.
Amen!
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  #70  
Old 09-05-2011, 08:35 PM
Drolefille Drolefille is offline
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Originally Posted by DGTess View Post
As I said, some have so kindly* reminded me I didn't go through the type of formal rush that some, or most, schools now use.
You're really passive aggressive, did you know that?

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I know I don't have a say; that's what happens in any representative form of government.
This isn't government.
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So you have your opinion, and I have mine. I'll not silence mine.
Get off the cross, build a bridge and get over it.
Seriously stop with the martyrdom.
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Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
For the last time, the rule says "MAY" not will. So if a campus is forcing women who do not attend a party because they simply don't want to, the AA should be told. I'm not saying she's going to do anything. I'm just saying she should be made aware because she may not know and may need to investigate what's going on. If she says she knows and has blessed it because X, Y and z, then fine. At least she knows.

Good grief, ladies!
This is not an uncommon rule, I'm just very confused. What you're suggesting is notification over something that is a pretty common practice on most campuses just because you're unfamiliar with it. The rule says "MAY" because it is a sample rule. It means it's permissible for a campus to add that as a consequence to non-attendance at parties. In fact, in those rules, the PNM ones I bolded are actually bolded in the manual as well as well as bolding the one about the bid card agreement and the NO MEN/ALCOHOL rule.

I suppose what I'm trying to convey, past your "GEEZ LADIES GEEZ" is that you're the only one who thinks this is shocking. There's no 'blessing it' specifically, it's part of the campus panhellenic's rules and is not an unusual one. This does btw, exclude sickness/class/team practice generally speaking, in case that's your thought process here.

That is not to say that all schools have the same rules, for example.
On SMU's FAQ:
Quote:
Q: May I skip a sorority even if I do not want to attend?
A: No, if you choose to miss a party then you will be removed from the entire process. There are no exceptions.
From U of Maryland
Quote:
What happens if I have to miss a round during spring recruitment?

If for any reason you have to miss a party during recruitment, you must fill out an excuse form with your Rho Gamma so that the sororities know why you could not attend their party. Please keep in mind that if you do not attend specific events, it is the sorority’s decision as to whether or not they invite you to attend their party during the next round. We strongly encourage you to attend every party during recruitment, so you can maximize your information and opportunities during recruitment and to help make your decision making process easier!
California State U: Long Beach
Quote:
What if I have to miss a Recruitment event?

It is very important that you attend all of the Recruitment events to which you are invited. Unexcused absences hamper your chances of being invited to the next round. Excuses are granted for illness, family emergencies, class attendance, and religious observances, provided you notify your Recruitment Counselor in advance at the orientation so that the chapters can be informed. We strongly recommend that you arrange to get off work during the Recruitment events if at all possible.
So you see, just from the ones posted publically there are a variety of different methods, but it is NOT strange to be pulled from recruitment if you miss a party and it IS legitimate and PNMs are informed of the rules ahead of time in their information packets, etc.

The reason you're getting pushback is that to some of us this is like saying you should report a school for not allowing balloons. Some schools allow them, but it's not weird to NOT allow them, it's relatively common.
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Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post

eta - As far as I know, Titchou, collegiate panhellenics have to submit their recruitment rules to the area panhellenic adviser, so she would already be aware of the requirement to attend all parties. Please correct me if my experience is not true of every campus.
I don't know for sure if that's the standard everywhere. I do know that when campuses change types of recruitment or yearly evaluate the recruitment process, the local NPC *person* is also involved.
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  #71  
Old 09-05-2011, 08:47 PM
Katmandu Katmandu is offline
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Your proposed fraternity style recruitment would be a step backward. Thank goodness we actually moved forward from that. I cringe when I read recruitment stories from the 80s and before and I see how PNMs have a full slate of invites from chapters who aren't really interested in them, then *poof* cut before preference.

RFM is a huge improvement. PNMs are finding homes (and would you believe it, they're HAPPY) in chapters they may have not considered before.

THIS ^^^^^ SO, So true.

Count me as one who thinks modern recruitment is a definite improvement over what was in place in the 70s. I was an active in the early/mid 70's. And a Rush Counsellor. (Rho Chi today). Without RFM, Chapters, especially chapters that were very successful at formal recruitment would keep hundreds of girls in the early rounds that they KNEW THEY WOULD NEVER BID, or even invite to pref. They did this to keep excitement up, to keep their parties bulging at the seams and to get everyone panting at the thought of being part of the Hubba Hubba Mamas.

Meanwhile, Ruthie Rushee was thrilled to be invited to the HHMs, not realizing she was being used as party filler. In the meantime, Ruthie turned down invitations to chapters that were realistic possibilities...Chapters that would have loved to get to know her and perhaps, offer her a bid.

Come three party day, all of the fillers were let go, and sometime pref was a difficult evening if your heart's desire sorority let you go, and you were left with invitations you had not even considered, or worse, if you had received no pref invitations at all.

RFM can be tough on chapters (and advisors) the first year or so, until they understand how it works for them. Sometimes there is some snap bidding needed, but once everyone knows the landscape, RFM is a huge improvement. Is it perfect? No, but it is an improvement. Recruitment is more fair, more inclusive today than it was in the mid 70s. It is amazing to me how many girls are successfully placed, even when there are 1500 PNMs.

I see nothing wrong with asking girls to go to the parties that invited them. How tragic that a college woman would have to make polite chit chat with GASP, women from a sorority SHE DIDN'T WANT. Who knows, she might even change her mind. And if she doesn't, she has learned a grown up lesson in polite behavior.
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  #72  
Old 09-05-2011, 09:04 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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While I realize that some campuses do this, that does not alter the fact that NPC says "may". therefore, I would still make sure the AA had blessed it. There are far too many places where peopletry to act outside the rules. Am dealing with something that would make your hair curl right now. So I would err on the side of informing the AA....now what exactly is wrong with that????
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  #73  
Old 09-05-2011, 10:24 PM
Drolefille Drolefille is offline
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Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
While I realize that some campuses do this, that does not alter the fact that NPC says "may". therefore, I would still make sure the AA had blessed it. There are far too many places where peopletry to act outside the rules. Am dealing with something that would make your hair curl right now. So I would err on the side of informing the AA....now what exactly is wrong with that????
The fact that you used four question marks for one question and four periods for an ellipses?

It's not outside the rules, so why would people notify anyone? Again this is like telling people as a general rule to notify the AA that there are silence rules on campus, or that this campus has prohibited skits. I'm just saying that when you make a really blanket statement like that you're creating the potential for AAs to be overwhelmed by calls about something that isn't a problem, hypothetically speaking.

Particularly since it just appears to be a rule you're not familiar with and despite others telling you it's no big deal and happens frequently you're still insisting that "we" should notify someone.

You're asking "Why not?" without actually answering our "Why?" with anything other than "I don't know this rule."

ETA: I have to laugh at my hair curling due to a recruitment issue. I sincerely doubt that.

ETA Again: Ok seriously, what do you think the word "may" means except that this is a potential consequence? Again, these are sample rules and I even linked you a circumstance where one campus says "WILL" and others say "May result in you being cut." In your world do you say "May" and actually mean "Will not?"
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Last edited by Drolefille; 09-05-2011 at 10:28 PM.
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  #74  
Old 09-05-2011, 11:32 PM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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I have no idea what you all are typing about but want to say, once again, that I love how seasoned the Greeks on GC are. An across-generation mix of Greek awesomeness. Lifetime memberships, indeed.

That is all.
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  #75  
Old 09-06-2011, 10:29 AM
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DGTess DGTess is offline
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Drolefille wrote:

Originally Posted by DGTess
As I said, some have so kindly* reminded me I didn't go through the type of formal rush that some, or most, schools now use.

You're really passive aggressive, did you know that?

And?
Quote:
I know I don't have a say; that's what happens in any representative form of government.
This isn't government.

It's the chosen form of governance for the 26 NPC groups.

Quote:
So you have your opinion, and I have mine. I'll not silence mine.
Get off the cross, build a bridge and get over it.
Seriously stop with the martyrdom.

Don't like it? Don't read. I respect your right to your opinion; that's all I can do. There's an ignore option.
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