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  #16  
Old 09-04-2011, 04:41 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by crosscaravan View Post
Recruitment is, in my opinion, about providing the maximum amount of opportunities to the maximum amount of people possible. If PNMs are not happy with the chapters they get invited back to, they can always drop out entirely, but it's really not fair to leave off chapters that you could be visiting before giving them a fair chance.
Absolutely 100% agree. If you feel a successful rush is one in which you never had to open your eyes beyond your "favorite" chapter going into recruitment, your Greek experience is going to be so much less than what it could have been.

As KSUViolet said in the other thread though, it really needs to be explained to PNMs better. If someone told me I was cancelling my order from namearandomstore.com and it showed up on my door, of course I'd be pissed - even if it turned out the shirt that they sent me was way better than the other shirts from the other orders I got that day. Yes, it'll make it look like the sororities have all the power, but guess what? In some systems, where the majority of PNMs are concerned, THEY DO.
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  #17  
Old 09-04-2011, 04:57 PM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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Originally Posted by DGTess View Post
I'm trying to understand. As some have kindly* noted before, my rush was not what many go through now.

A closer analogy to what I'm seeing is everyone on my street having an open house on the same day, and inviting everyone in the neighborhood. There are some who don't want to come to my house, or to my neighbor's house, but want to visit everyone else. Why should that person have to visit the homes s/he doesn't want to? Seems to me that rush is the same way. Just because there are 8 time slots for parties and someone gets invitations to 8 parties, why must she go to all 8? Wouldn't "mutual" selection dictate that both sides get to "cut"?
We disagree on so much, but dammit I agree with this.
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  #18  
Old 09-04-2011, 05:01 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by Senusret I View Post
We disagree on so much, but dammit I agree with this.
Yeah but if you find out that the house you blew off because it didn't look fun or like a place you would hang out just happens to be where Lenny Kravitz's cousin lives and they were having a family reunion, you're really gonna feel like a jackass.
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  #19  
Old 09-04-2011, 05:16 PM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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Yeah but if you find out that the house you blew off because it didn't look fun or like a place you would hang out just happens to be where Lenny Kravitz's cousin lives and they were having a family reunion, you're really gonna feel like a jackass.
In the words of Victor Newman "ain't gonna happen!"

lol
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  #20  
Old 09-04-2011, 05:26 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Originally Posted by DGTess View Post
I'm trying to understand. As some have kindly* noted before, my rush was not what many go through now.

A closer analogy to what I'm seeing is everyone on my street having an open house on the same day, and inviting everyone in the neighborhood. There are some who don't want to come to my house, or to my neighbor's house, but want to visit everyone else. Why should that person have to visit the homes s/he doesn't want to? Seems to me that rush is the same way. Just because there are 8 time slots for parties and someone gets invitations to 8 parties, why must she go to all 8? Wouldn't "mutual" selection dictate that both sides get to "cut"?
Yes, and they both can. It's just that by going when you have the opportunity but not so much the desire that you open yourself to things you may not have seen before. "rush crush" applies on both sides of the aisle.

And they should visit all the houses in your neighborhood because it's the polite thing to do. Just as you all will be neighbors and therefore should have some knowledge of and level of friendship with each, PNMs will be members not only of the chapter they pledge but the overall PH community and getting to know them and what's meaningful to them is advantageous to all.
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  #21  
Old 09-04-2011, 05:37 PM
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DGTess DGTess is offline
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Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
Yes, and they both can. It's just that by going when you have the opportunity but not so much the desire that you open yourself to things you may not have seen before. "rush crush" applies on both sides of the aisle.
But no, they can't. The chapters can cut the rushee, but not the other way around. That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. As I understand from rules that have been posted or linked here, if she fails to attend a party, she's cut from rush completely. That's coercion, the way I see it.
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Last edited by DGTess; 09-04-2011 at 05:41 PM. Reason: Added
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  #22  
Old 09-04-2011, 05:51 PM
violetpretty violetpretty is offline
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Originally Posted by DGTess View Post
But no, they can't. The chapters can cut the rushee, but not the other way around. That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. As I understand from rules that have been posted or linked here, if she fails to attend a party, she's cut from rush completely. That's coercion, the way I see it.
Oh noes, don't tread on me!

If it's going to kill you to visit and be polite at a chapter that you don't want to go to in order to stay in the recruitment process, you've got a lot to learn about getting what you want in life.
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  #23  
Old 09-04-2011, 05:55 PM
dgdramadawg dgdramadawg is offline
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Originally Posted by DGTess View Post
But no, they can't. The chapters can cut the rushee, but not the other way around. That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. As I understand from rules that have been posted or linked here, if she fails to attend a party, she's cut from rush completely. That's coercion, the way I see it.
But she's not required to list it on her pref card in the end. They're coercing a girl to give something another look, not forcing her to join.

At a big/competitive recruitment like the one I went through, I think most PNMs would rather be able to say they have a full party schedule if possible, even if it means they have to attend parties at chapters they don't particularly like. It always feels nice to have the invites and feel desired.
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  #24  
Old 09-04-2011, 06:08 PM
VandalSquirrel VandalSquirrel is offline
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I've got some in-between feelings here. I'd always rather go where I am truly wanted, so I'd rather have the chapters who actually want me invite me back and have a better idea of my realistic chances. So I really like a situation where women are given invitations and if they have more than they are supposed to they can choose and be given the option of using "regret" if they liked a chapter but had more invites than party slots. By not using regret then a chapter can see a woman is not interested and move on.

I also am torn about maximizing options to be available for QA or snap, as more often than not the woman has two chapters, one she wants to join and the other she doesn't. If a woman absolutely doesn't want to join the other chapter, that should be made clear for the sake of those chapters she doesn't want because it sucks to have women not show up on bid day, boo hooing, or just being negative. She'd still be eligible for COB but guess which chapters will likely be doing that, if at all.

I think the only time a "spot" is taken from a woman is during a bed rush, as mutual selection will keep women and chapters together through RFM, QA, and snap bidding.

Of course I truly believe in rush not before school starts, freshman not living in, and having events the first semester that are panhellenic and though not ideal for all campuses it could allow women to give chapters a chance and if they still only want XYZ and don't get it, they can't say the system cheated them as we could educate PNMs about the process for a whole semester/quarter.
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  #25  
Old 09-04-2011, 06:31 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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How many stories do we read on here about women who didn't like ABC the first day and loved them the second day or even the third day? It happens ALL THE TIME.

Yes, the sorority women hold the whip hand. The PNMs want to think they have more control than they do, but they don't. Such is the nature of the beast. If you want a job, you jump through hoops. If you want to attend a certain school, you jump through hoops. If you want to join a sorority, you jump through hoops.

Welcome to life.

I've rushed women who did not want to be at my chapter and it stinks. No one likes dealing with a rude woman. But I still think the system works the best for everyone in the long run. I wish we had had RFM in place when I was in college. It might have made a huge difference on a campus where four chapters closed in a relatively short period of time.
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  #26  
Old 09-04-2011, 07:31 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Originally Posted by DGTess View Post
But no, they can't. The chapters can cut the rushee, but not the other way around. That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. As I understand from rules that have been posted or linked here, if she fails to attend a party, she's cut from rush completely. That's coercion, the way I see it.
Then you misunderstand. If she doesn't attend all she can she is not cut from recruitment. What happens is that she has not "maximized her options." Therefore, if she does not match to whoever she puts on her bid card she cannot be added as a quota addition. She may luck out and get her choice but she has no options if she doesn't. So it only applies at the end of recruitment insofaras how many options she has.
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  #27  
Old 09-04-2011, 07:35 PM
violetpretty violetpretty is offline
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Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
Then you misunderstand. If she doesn't attend all she can she is not cut from recruitment. What happens is that she has not "maximized her options." Therefore, if she does not match to whoever she puts on her bid card she cannot be added as a quota addition. She may luck out and get her choice but she has no options if she doesn't. So it only applies at the end of recruitment insofaras how many options she has.
I haven't heard of a school where a PNM is allowed to skip parties (unless excused) during formal recruitment without being released entirely.
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  #28  
Old 09-04-2011, 08:05 PM
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NutBrnHair NutBrnHair is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
"...to take someone else's spot."

"...you are taking someone else's spot."
Same kind of thing happens within a chapter when they are deciding whom to invite to pref. Some members fear the legacies are going to "take someone else's spot." For a chapter that historically doesn't pledge quota -- this is not an issue.
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  #29  
Old 09-04-2011, 08:15 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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I haven't heard of a school where a PNM is allowed to skip parties (unless excused) during formal recruitment without being released entirely.
I haven't heard of one that does. If they do release her from recruitment for failure to accept an invitation they should be reported to their NPC Area Adviser. The requirement in the Green Book for Quota Additions states that
"this procedure shall never include a woman who lists an Intentional Single Preference on her Membership Recruitment Acceptance Agreement or one who has failed to accept or attend any membership recruitment event for which there was room in her membership recruitment schedule.

So obviously, she can decline to attend if they have to say what to do with her at bid matching.
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  #30  
Old 09-04-2011, 08:48 PM
violetpretty violetpretty is offline
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Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
I haven't heard of one that does. If they do release her from recruitment for failure to accept an invitation they should be reported to their NPC Area Adviser. The requirement in the Green Book for Quota Additions states that
"this procedure shall never include a woman who lists an Intentional Single Preference on her Membership Recruitment Acceptance Agreement or one who has failed to accept or attend any membership recruitment event for which there was room in her membership recruitment schedule.

So obviously, she can decline to attend if they have to say what to do with her at bid matching.
I'm not talking about QAs at all. What is to prohibit a College Panhellenic from requiring PNMs to attend all events for which they have room in their schedule? Otherwise, way more PNMs would ditch parties.
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