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  #1  
Old 04-13-2011, 11:45 AM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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Does Bi-cultural = Multicultural?

So I was having a lively debate with another Greek this week about Afro-Latino organizations such as:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Dragon View Post
2. Afro-Latino Fraternities and Sororities
-Alpha Beta Sigma Sorority, Inc., 1998-02-06, State University of New York - Buffalo
-Beta Kappa Psi Black and Latino Fraternity, Inc., 1992-10-14, New Jersey Institute of Technology
-Beta Sigma Kappa Afro-Latino Fraternity, Inc., 1998-03-16, State University of New York - Buffalo
-MALIK Fraternity, Inc. (Former Malik Sigma Psi Fraternity, Inc.), 1977-05-13, Long Island University
-Malika Kambe Umfazi Sorority, Inc., 1995-06-16, State University of New York - Buffalo
-Sigma Phi Rho Fraternity, Inc., 1979-11-13, Wagner College
-Xi Theta Psi Afro-Latino Fraternity, Inc., ????, Syracuse University
Should these organizations count as multicultural? They literally promote more than one culture in their missions, programming and their membership. But they don't promote all cultures.
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  #2  
Old 04-13-2011, 11:52 AM
agzg agzg is offline
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Going just on word meaning alone - "multi" meaning more than one, I would say that groups that promote two cultures but not all cultures would count as multicultural. Not as precise as "bi" but that's OK.

If they were promoting all cultures, wouldn't "pancultural" be a better fit?
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  #3  
Old 04-13-2011, 11:52 AM
Drolefille Drolefille is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I View Post
So I was having a lively debate with another Greek this week about Afro-Latino organizations such as:



Should these organizations count as multicultural? They literally promote more than one culture in their missions, programming and their membership. But they don't promote all cultures.
Here's a question to not answer your question: Do they truly promote two cultures or are they specifically promoting "Afro-Latino" culture? That is, are non-Latino African American culture and non-African Latino culture as excluded as any other culture?
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  #4  
Old 04-13-2011, 11:58 AM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agzg View Post

If they were promoting all cultures, wouldn't "pancultural" be a better fit?
That's literally the word I was thinking of.

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Originally Posted by Drolefille View Post
Here's a question to not answer your question: Do they truly promote two cultures or are they specifically promoting "Afro-Latino" culture? That is, are non-Latino African American culture and non-African Latino culture as excluded as any other culture?
They do not promote only Afro-Latino culture. (That would be a small-ass fraternity indeed) They promote African American culture (or even Pan-Africanism, if you will) and Latino culture. (One of them even has a strong American Indian aspect, too -- I saw it in one of their probate shows).
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:03 PM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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Bicultural and multicultural are sometimes used interchangeably.

Organizations with the purpose of recognizing, promoting, and appreciating different (races and ethnicities and) cultures would be multicultural.

This is different than NPHC organizations that were founded and currently operate for Black Americans and others of the African Disapora. That includes different cultures but only within the "African Diasporic" race and ethnicity. Therefore, even Phi Beta Sigma and Zeta Phi Beta, with their diversity in some chapters, are not multicultural. People who are not of the African Diaspora can become members but the purpose of the organizations do not change with increased diversity in membership.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:03 PM
agzg agzg is offline
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This may be a hijack, but I do tend to get frustrated when groups that are not specifically (or non-specifically, nowadays) "White" or "Black" or sometimes "Latino/a" they get lumped into some people's understanding as a multicultural organization. I tend to like more precise nomenclature.

Which leads me to my question - do you think it does a disservice to specific racially/culturally based organizations that are not multicultural, and to multicultural organizations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil View Post
This is different than NPHC organizations that were founded and currently operate for Black Americans and others of the African Disapora. That includes different cultures but only within the "African Diasporic" race and ethnicity. Therefore, even Phi Beta Sigma and Zeta Phi Beta, with their diversity in some chapters, are not multicultural. People who are not of the African Diaspora can become members but the purpose of the organizations do not change with increased diversity in membership.
I think you got to the heart of my frustration here.

Last edited by agzg; 04-13-2011 at 12:09 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #7  
Old 04-13-2011, 12:04 PM
Drolefille Drolefille is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I View Post
That's literally the word I was thinking of.



They do not promote only Afro-Latino culture. (That would be a small-ass fraternity indeed) They promote African American culture (or even Pan-Africanism, if you will) and Latino culture. (One of them even has a strong American Indian aspect, too -- I saw it in one of their probate shows).
I like "pancultural" too, but although "pan" and "omni" have worked their way into discussions of orientation, we're even more uncomfortable with 'culture' than we are with orientation.

And based on your reply, yeah I'd agree that I'd include it in "multicultural." I doubt that every MCGLO includes _every_ culture, but that each org is influenced by their founders, and each chapter is influenced by its members as well.
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  #8  
Old 04-13-2011, 12:11 PM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agzg View Post
This may be a hijack, but I do tend to get frustrated when groups that are not specifically (or non-specifically, nowadays) "White" or "Black" or sometimes "Latino/a" they get lumped into some people's understanding as a multicultural organization. I tend to like more precise nomenclature.

Which leads me to my question - do you think it does a disservice to specific racially/culturally based organizations, and to multicultural organizations?
I don't understand your question. LOL.

Multiculturalism is a relatively new phenomenon in this mainstream context. I'm still accustomed to anything that isn't NPC or NIC being called "cultural orgs" and not being included in the "awesome GLOs" category. That has always pissed me off but the majority will always do that to the minority.


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I think you got to the heart of my frustration here.
I don't think that I did. LOL.
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  #9  
Old 04-13-2011, 12:14 PM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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I think the purpose of multicultural isn't to have members from every single culture before considering yourself multicultural; or explicitly listing all cultures that you include or welcome. It is to be open to different cultures and to have a purpose that stresses such openness.

In that sense, biculturalism would be different than multiculturalism (despite being used interchangeably sometimes) because biculturalism implies specific cultures that are included. In contrast, multiculturalism often includes and even lists different cultures in an "including but not limited to..." fashion.

Last edited by DrPhil; 04-13-2011 at 12:23 PM.
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  #10  
Old 04-13-2011, 12:25 PM
agzg agzg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil View Post
I don't understand your question. LOL.

Multiculturalism is a relatively new phenomenon in this mainstream context. I'm still accustomed to anything that isn't NPC or NIC being called "cultural orgs" and not being included in the "awesome GLOs" category. That has always pissed me off but the majority will always do that to the minority.



I don't think that I did. LOL.
LOL I guess I better explain more:

I'm having a hard time organizing my thoughts right now but I'm going to think on this - even what's below probably doesn't make any sense (blame it on work or something, I don't know).

My question does relate, though, to the racial or cultural diversity of memberships and how it doesn't change any professed racial or cultural purpose of the group.

If I joined an NPHC organization it wouldn't change that aspect of the groups purpose. That's generally understood.

However, and this is because I'm coming from an NPC context and I think it's pretty clear that in general NPC sorority members are pretty terrible at relating to groups that are not NPC (or even other NPC groups, don't get me started), I see people lumping particularly Asian and some Latino fraternities and sororities with the multicultural groups when serving as a multicultural organization was not part of the intended purpose of the group. And I was just wondering what that means particularly for chapters of the organization that do have a relatively diverse member population, if that makes sense.

For many NPC/NIC members, it's easy to put everyone in the boxes of "NPC," "NIC," "NPHC," and "everyone else." And sometimes just "NPC/NIC" and "everyone else." It's my understanding that by not recognizing the differences between different types of Greek organizations, folks are doing a disservice to those organizations because recognition helps to understand differing points of view and approaches to functioning as a Greek Life organization.

So, basically, not understanding the general principles upon which different types of organizations were founded is poopy doo doo and I want to know if others agree and to what extent the poopy doo doo is.

Please forgive me for acting like dnall and generalizing my perceptions or those of people I know to mean that everyone views it that way.
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  #11  
Old 04-13-2011, 12:27 PM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil View Post
In that sense, biculturalism would be different than multiculturalism (despite being used interchangeably sometimes) because biculturalism implies specific cultures that are included. fashion.
I agree with this, but take it even further to suggest that bicultural organizations would specifically exclude anything they consider to be colonial or imperial (white) ideology. I am sure they would take a white member who was down for liberation and such, but the way that exemplify their ideals (say for example, Malik) is militant to the point of alienation.

This might be contrary to the underlying "feeling" of multicultural organizations, but I would still consider bicultural orgs to be multicultural by virtue of intentionally uniting multiple cultures and having programs to that effect.
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2011, 12:30 PM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agzg View Post
LOL I guess I better explain more:

I'm having a hard time organizing my thoughts right now but I'm going to think on this - even what's below probably doesn't make any sense (blame it on work or something, I don't know).

My question does relate, though, to the racial or cultural diversity of memberships and how it doesn't change any professed racial or cultural purpose of the group.

If I joined an NPHC organization it wouldn't change that aspect of the groups purpose. That's generally understood.

However, and this is because I'm coming from an NPC context and I think it's pretty clear that in general NPC sorority members are pretty terrible at relating to groups that are not NPC (or even other NPC groups, don't get me started), I see people lumping particularly Asian and some Latino fraternities and sororities with the multicultural groups when serving as a multicultural organization was not part of the intended purpose of the group. And I was just wondering what that means particularly for chapters of the organization that do have a relatively diverse member population, if that makes sense.

For many NPC/NIC members, it's easy to put everyone in the boxes of "NPC," "NIC," "NPHC," and "everyone else." And sometimes just "NPC/NIC" and "everyone else." It's my understanding that by not recognizing the differences between different types of Greek organizations, folks are doing a disservice to those organizations because recognition helps to understand differing points of view and approaches to functioning as a Greek Life organization.

So, basically, not understanding the general principles upon which different types of organizations were founded is poopy doo doo and I want to know if others agree and to what extent the poopy doo doo is.

Please forgive me for acting like dnall and generalizing my perceptions or those of people I know to mean that everyone views it that way.

I understand you. For the sake of clarity, let's say that I am discussing organizations who are:

1. Members of the National Multicultural Greek Council
2. Actual multicultural organizations who would generally qualify to be members of NMGC
3. Bicultural organizations not on any council at all.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:36 PM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I View Post
I agree with this, but take it even further to suggest that bicultural organizations would specifically exclude anything they consider to be colonial or imperial (white) ideology. I am sure they would take a white member who was down for liberation and such, but the way that exemplify their ideals (say for example, Malik) is militant to the point of alienation.
I don't know about this so I can't speak on it. I don't consider the perceived militance of Malik to be indicative of bicultural organizations, in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I View Post
This might be contrary to the underlying "feeling" of multicultural organizations, but I would still consider bicultural orgs to be multicultural by virtue of intentionally uniting multiple cultures and having programs to that effect.
Welllllllll, if an organization like Malik would be militant toward members of the white diaspora, they would not be multicultural. Whites also have a race, ethnicity, and culture. There's no multiculturalism if you aren't open to white folks joining you and your purpose doesn't include being open to the white diaspora without white folks constantly feeling like the offspring of colonialists and imperials.
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  #14  
Old 04-13-2011, 12:37 PM
agzg agzg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I View Post
I understand you. For the sake of clarity, let's say that I am discussing organizations who are:

1. Members of the National Multicultural Greek Council
2. Actual multicultural organizations who would generally qualify to be members of NMGC
3. Bicultural organizations not on any council at all.
I understand why bicultural organizations may specifically not want to be part of the NMGC, but would they not qualify?
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  #15  
Old 04-13-2011, 12:38 PM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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Yes, they literally would still be multicultural. They would not be pancultural.
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