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  #61  
Old 05-17-2011, 02:55 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by Drolefille View Post
And as coming out of the closet is an ongoing process, not a once in a lifetime thing, I don't think there's anything wrong with not coming out during recruitment. The idea that they might not be welcome isn't something that people need to be told by college, and it's their call. Anyone who would be upset over being 'lied to' is kind of missing the point IMO.
In your last sentence, do you mean "anyone" as in the rushee or "anyone" as in the chapter?

I get what you're saying about it being bit by bit, but as far as the OP, she is apparently so far out that she isn't even in the same house as the closet.
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  #62  
Old 05-17-2011, 03:00 AM
Drolefille Drolefille is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
In your last sentence, do you mean "anyone" as in the rushee or "anyone" as in the chapter?

I get what you're saying about it being bit by bit, but as far as the OP, she is apparently so far out that she isn't even in the same house as the closet.
OP didn't rebump the thread so I wasn't talking about her. Was just responding to the whole idea of being upfront about orientation and what counts as flaunting it and why it's a double standard.

And anyone as in the chapter as i was speaking about it.

(And I have to laugh at alumnae talking about how things 'are down here' when hopefully the actives have the ability and the desire to change things. If lesbians can maybe just maybe go to the prom in Mississippi, hopefully they can just maybe go to a sorority formal. The bigotry of 'how things are' shouldn't just be accepted. I hope the actives are changing it.
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  #63  
Old 05-17-2011, 03:43 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by Drolefille View Post
OP didn't rebump the thread so I wasn't talking about her. Was just responding to the whole idea of being upfront about orientation and what counts as flaunting it and why it's a double standard.
If you ever read the Live from New York book (oral history of SNL), Terry Sweeney has a really good quote about how people aren't being intentionally homophobic, they just see a gay guy here and a straight guy here and it doesn't occur to them that they're in the same place. (Obviously he is a writer and said this better.)
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  #64  
Old 05-17-2011, 11:12 AM
HannahXO HannahXO is offline
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Originally Posted by AnotherKD View Post
This is a question simply out of curiosity- did they rush together as a couple or did they start dating after both were already in?
Nope, they knew each other prior to being in chi o, but started dating after they became sisters.
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  #65  
Old 05-17-2011, 11:55 AM
DTD Alum DTD Alum is offline
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Originally Posted by Drolefille View Post
(And I have to laugh at alumnae talking about how things 'are down here' when hopefully the actives have the ability and the desire to change things. If lesbians can maybe just maybe go to the prom in Mississippi, hopefully they can just maybe go to a sorority formal. The bigotry of 'how things are' shouldn't just be accepted. I hope the actives are changing it.
Thank you so much for this comment. I could not agree more. I have zero issue with regions that like to stick to tradition. Have your boys wear Polo and your girls wear Lily, whatever, it's all good. I do, however, have an issue when this sense of sticking to tradition blatantly ignores the advancements in science, psychology and human rights that have time and time again shown that sexuality is completely uncontrollable and unchangeable.

Would a hyper-effeminate gay man who loves to design woman's clothes and a butchy lesbian who only wears Doc Martens and flannel find a home in a traditionally Southern GLO? Almost assuredly no, and my guess is that most who fit this stereotype would prefer to join any other organization BUT a traditional chapter. But the thing is that such a small fraction of the LGBT population comes even close to fitting those stereotypes. ALL large chapters have closeted members. I'm sorry, it is just a statistical probability. Allowing your brothers/sisters to go through the hyper vigilant, devastating and soul sucking hell that is being in the closet (and I'm not going to apologize for the extremism there, it really is that bad and lonely) just so you can stick to an antiquated and incorrect view of human nature is about as far from brotherhood and sisterhood as you can possibly get. It is nothing to be proud of.
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  #66  
Old 05-17-2011, 12:56 PM
Gusteau Gusteau is offline
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Originally Posted by DTD Alum View Post
Thank you so much for this comment. I could not agree more. I have zero issue with regions that like to stick to tradition. Have your boys wear Polo and your girls wear Lily, whatever, it's all good. I do, however, have an issue when this sense of sticking to tradition blatantly ignores the advancements in science, psychology and human rights that have time and time again shown that sexuality is completely uncontrollable and unchangeable.

Would a hyper-effeminate gay man who loves to design woman's clothes and a butchy lesbian who only wears Doc Martens and flannel find a home in a traditionally Southern GLO? Almost assuredly no, and my guess is that most who fit this stereotype would prefer to join any other organization BUT a traditional chapter. But the thing is that such a small fraction of the LGBT population comes even close to fitting those stereotypes. ALL large chapters have closeted members. I'm sorry, it is just a statistical probability. Allowing your brothers/sisters to go through the hyper vigilant, devastating and soul sucking hell that is being in the closet (and I'm not going to apologize for the extremism there, it really is that bad and lonely) just so you can stick to an antiquated and incorrect view of human nature is about as far from brotherhood and sisterhood as you can possibly get. It is nothing to be proud of.


I hope that even the most traditional chapter would accept a gay member of their chapter when considering the friendship and brotherhood/sisterhood they've built with them. I think the idea that this would not happen comes from the erroneous thought that when a member comes out it means he or she will now conform to x stereotype. In all actuality the only change that will probably occur is that the member will finally be able to lead a happy life being true to him/herself.
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  #67  
Old 05-17-2011, 01:08 PM
DTD Alum DTD Alum is offline
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Originally Posted by Gusteau View Post
I think the idea that this would not happen comes from the erroneous thought that when a member comes out it means he or she will now conform to x stereotype. In all actuality the only change that will probably occur is that the member will finally be able to lead a happy life being true to him/herself.
Ironically conforming to the "stereotype" only usually happens when the person's initial friend group and/or family take their distance from them and they are forced to make entirely new social connections. If they are treated like nothing has changed (and let's be honest, the only thing that has truly changed is awareness of their orientation, they've been gay the whole time) they likely won't feel the need to change anything about themselves either.
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  #68  
Old 05-17-2011, 01:11 PM
Gusteau Gusteau is offline
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Exactly.
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  #69  
Old 05-17-2011, 07:09 PM
Alumiyum Alumiyum is offline
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Originally Posted by DTD Alum View Post
Thank you so much for this comment. I could not agree more. I have zero issue with regions that like to stick to tradition. Have your boys wear Polo and your girls wear Lily, whatever, it's all good. I do, however, have an issue when this sense of sticking to tradition blatantly ignores the advancements in science, psychology and human rights that have time and time again shown that sexuality is completely uncontrollable and unchangeable.

Would a hyper-effeminate gay man who loves to design woman's clothes and a butchy lesbian who only wears Doc Martens and flannel find a home in a traditionally Southern GLO? Almost assuredly no, and my guess is that most who fit this stereotype would prefer to join any other organization BUT a traditional chapter. But the thing is that such a small fraction of the LGBT population comes even close to fitting those stereotypes. ALL large chapters have closeted members. I'm sorry, it is just a statistical probability. Allowing your brothers/sisters to go through the hyper vigilant, devastating and soul sucking hell that is being in the closet (and I'm not going to apologize for the extremism there, it really is that bad and lonely) just so you can stick to an antiquated and incorrect view of human nature is about as far from brotherhood and sisterhood as you can possibly get. It is nothing to be proud of.
Applause for this post. Though my chapter wasn't a "traditional" southern chapter, it was definitely a chapter in the south, and the issue came up while I was an active. I know of an alum that chose to keep her orientation to herself until she graduated...and it bothered me then and still does that she felt that she couldn't date or be herself while she was an active. But I know why she chose to stay "in the closet" and I don't blame her. I doubt she would have faced outright in-your-face prejudice had she come out, but I KNOW she would have faced some passive aggressive behavior and snide comments at the least. And this was only a few years ago.

I just fail to understand why a persons' sexual orientation, whatever it may be, is such a big deal.
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