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  #16  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:28 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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Originally Posted by Just interested View Post
To answer TriDeltaSallie, from what I've seen over the years, and this is just my observation, many moms from my part of the world anyway, would prefer their daughter go Top Tier, over their own group even their own chapter. I have seen it too many times. They call it finding the best fit for their daughter. It is moving up the social ladder. They have seen to it that daughter went to right HS, the right summer camp and I hate to say this, even the right church. This is certainly not everyone but it is enough to be noticed by those of us who work on Reference Boards. It is an amazing thing to watch as an observer to positioning that takes place. This is going to be an interesting thread.
Could you give some examples of how moving to the "top tier" would change life for Mary Sue? Would her "top tier" status impact the rest of her ABC family relations? If so, how so? And if not, why not?
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  #17  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:41 PM
LadyLonghorn LadyLonghorn is offline
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Originally Posted by chopperdude View Post
are so called second tier groups even though the are strong nationals still good organizations?
it is a shame that a chapter on a campus is not in the top what ever but is still strong nation wide and they have family who in that organization. we have gone through many changes over the years so things do change.
Your knowledge of sororities and tiers at competitive schools is so admirable, Tom.

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  #18  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:49 PM
LadyLonghorn LadyLonghorn is offline
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Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
To add to my post:

I think the more blatant coaching and preparation for competitive recruitments comes from those parents and families with the LEAST amount of connections or knowledge of the Greek system. Not uber-connected PNMs with multi-generation legacies (or those who are Miss Popular at "feeder high schools").

Like I said in my post, Mary Sue isn't coached and drilled on recruitment because it isn't neccessary. She knows (based on her social circle) where she'll end up and there's no need for these extensive preparations that we read about (e.g. hiring rush coaches, interview coaches, voraciously hunting down outfits, etc). Her family is in the know and everything will work out.

The girls being blatantly and openly groomed and coached for sorority life are those not "in the know."

Those are the girls who need the extra help because they lack well-connected parents/relatives/etc.

These are the PNMs and moms who WANT to be in a top house (like Mary Sue), and thus spend alot of time preparing for the process (because they're behind the curve of those girls like Mary Sue who don't have to exert such effort).

Oddly enough, I've heard it said that the moms and PNMs who are most concerned with getting into a TOP HOUSE (and are the MOST status-conscious) are those who are NOT "shoe-ins" for top tier like Mary Sue (such as PNMs with non-greek parents).

Mary Sue has what she needs to get into ABC so getting in is (typically) not an issue. She is not pressed about what "tier" ABC is. She has grown up in a family of ABC women, so it's all she knows.

On the other hand, Suzie Jane who just moved to Anytown in 10th grade (whose mom is NOT Greek) who sees/hears about ABC all the time from the popular girls in school, is going to have to work 300% harder to come close to having a shot at it.

Suzie Jane's mother will likely invest in the heavy duty coaching because she has asked around and knows that being ABC at Anytown University is "the best" and wants her daughter to have access to the status of being one. So she, being from the outside is more concerned with what's "the best" and "top tier."

Wow, that was long. But all of this to say that heavy duty grooming and coaching is mostly for those who are trying to "break into" sorority life and the social circle that it provides in some Southern town. Not for those who have grown up in it. For them, things just are what they are.

Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner. What many people don't understand is that it isn't really a matter of "grooming" when it comes to being a "natural fit" (for lack of a better phrase) into a "top tier" chapter at a competitive school. These are the girls we have known since birth. We often grew up in the same neighborhood. Our parents are old friends and may have been sorority sisters and fraternity brothers. That goes for our grandparents, aunts, uncles etc. We went to the same schools. We were in Girl Scouts together. We went to camp together for years. We were debs together. We already know a lot of our sisters or their relatives long before recruitment begins, and we aren't depending on summer parties, recs etc.
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:56 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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Originally Posted by LadyLonghorn View Post
Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner. What many people don't understand is that it isn't really a matter of "grooming" when it comes to being a "natural fit" (for lack of a better phrase) into a "top tier" chapter at a competitive school. These are the girls we have known since birth. We often grew up in the same neighborhood. Our parents are old friends and may have been sorority sisters and fraternity brothers. That goes for our grandparents, aunts, uncles etc. We went to the same schools. We were in Girl Scouts together. We went to camp together for years. We were debs together. We already know a lot of our sisters or their relatives long before recruitment begins, and we aren't depending on summer parties, recs etc.
LadyLonghorn,

What percentage of women at the most competitive recruitment schools are debs? Is it 100%? 50%? Does it vary significantly by state or school? Does it vary significantly by "tier"?

Thanks!
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:57 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Just interested and Low C Sharp are right on the money here. There is constant drilling going on by the families of the Mary Sues but it may not directly pertain to rush at all, rather to how the Mary Sues are expected to live their lives--and the 'right' bid should follow. Back in the day, it usually did.

With release figures being the way they are now, though, it's not a given that the 'right' bid will follow. There are so so many Mary Sues out there plus a lot of other girls whom the sororities are interested in because of their great grades and strong activities and you just can't count on getting a bid from certain groups anymore.
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  #21  
Old 01-04-2010, 06:43 PM
Low C Sharp Low C Sharp is offline
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Could you give some examples of how moving to the "top tier" would change life for Mary Sue?
I can't speak for all those moms who focus on the "right" school and "right" camp, but my guess is that at the end of the day, as an ABC, Mary Sue will mix with the top fraternities. So she'll hopefully meet/date/marry the son of a big shot, who'll grow into a big shot himself and keep her in the right house, neighborhood, clothes, and clubs for life.
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Last edited by PenguinTrax; 07-09-2014 at 07:19 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-04-2010, 07:00 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Originally Posted by carnation View Post
There are so so many Mary Sues out there plus a lot of other girls whom the sororities are interested in because of their great grades and strong activities and you just can't count on getting a bid from certain groups anymore.
Yep.

This is where being a Mary Sue goes wrong (potentially...if Mary Sue's school sees a large # of legacies and uses the RFM).

This is why it's important for all PNMs (whether they're Mary Sues or Suzy Janes) to keep an open mind. We all know that, but alot of times, there's no such thing as an open mind when ABC is all you know (from your family, hometown, HS clique, etc).

As alumnae, we have the benefit of knowing that one CAN be happy in a chapter other than (example) ABC, but it's different when you might not even know anyone in your immediate circle who didn't pledge that sorority. You probably don't want to be known as "the Anytown ABC legacy that went XYZ."

I guess if a Mary Sue does get cut from her ABC, it comes down to whether she would rather not be Greek in Anytown OR be an XYZ or something else at Anytown (in a family of ABCs). In a perfect world, Mary Sue's family members wouldn't care and would just be happy she's happy, but that's not always the case.

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Last edited by KSUViolet06; 01-04-2010 at 07:46 PM.
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  #23  
Old 01-04-2010, 07:24 PM
thetygerlily thetygerlily is offline
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This is all fascinating. I come from a non-Greek family and went to a non-competitive school in the midwest. We got one rec letter the entire time I was there (not quite a legacy but had a Kappa aunt) and the entire chapter was excited about it. Definitely minimal grooming at our school, intentional or otherwise.

The only person I know who was "groomed" was my former coworker. She was "strongly encouraged" by her adoptive mother to go Greek and wound up in her mother's house. She didn't hate the experience, but didn't get as much out of it as she could've. She just didn't care much about it, and still doesn't. Of course this is a much less competitive area with minimal grooming for most.

Although it would've been nice to have SOME insight into what the Greek system was (besides the media) before going into it, I'm glad I wasn't groomed for ABC or XYZ. There's enough pressure just trying to find the right one for you, let alone finding the right one for you and making sure it is ABC to live up to your/your family's unspoken(?) expectations. Not to mention to make sure that you get in, especially if there are more legacies than open spots. But I suppose sometimes it is what you make of it- so if you grow up knowing innately that you will be ABC and you will love ABC, you are more likely love it no matter what. Attitude is everything, isn't it?
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  #24  
Old 01-04-2010, 07:53 PM
Elephant Walk Elephant Walk is offline
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Originally Posted by Low C Sharp View Post
I might add that Mary Sue IS drilled and coached on the skills and rules that will serve her in recruitment...but from age 3 to age 15, not as a high school senior. No one is born knowing that you don't wear white shoes after Labor Day. Mary Sue's mama made sure she knew about that. School-aged Mary Sue went to dancing class and tea parties and cotillions where she had a chance to practice her social graces (and mama had a chance to whip her into shape if she made any mistakes). She IS groomed from birth, but for the life of the social elite in Anytown, not for rush per se.
This.

Good job.
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  #25  
Old 01-04-2010, 08:05 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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Originally Posted by Low C Sharp View Post
I might add that Mary Sue IS drilled and coached on the skills and rules that will serve her in recruitment...but from age 3 to age 15, not as a high school senior. No one is born knowing that you don't wear white shoes after Labor Day. Mary Sue's mama made sure she knew about that. School-aged Mary Sue went to dancing class and tea parties and cotillions where she had a chance to practice her social graces (and mama had a chance to whip her into shape if she made any mistakes). She IS groomed from birth, but for the life of the social elite in Anytown, not for rush per se.
So what happens if Mary Sue meets a future big shot who is from Othertown (not Anytown) and in Othertown, ABC is not "the" group but LMN is. How is Mary Sue received by the social elites in Othertown if she isn't a part of one of their perceived top groups?
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  #26  
Old 01-04-2010, 08:07 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie View Post
So what happens if Mary Sue meets a future big shot who is from Othertown (not Anytown) and in Othertown, ABC is not "the" group but LMN is. How is Mary Sue received by the social elites in Othertown if she isn't a part of one of their perceived top groups?
But silly, she and hubby DON'T leave Anytown (usually).
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  #27  
Old 01-04-2010, 08:11 PM
Elephant Walk Elephant Walk is offline
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I will give a fraternity based example of a chapter who is now long gone (R.I.P)

Phi Delt at the UA tended to pledge alot of Highland Park, Dallas guys. Now, Highland Park guys are in demand because thats a very rich, monied part of Dallas with alot of stellar guys. Along with Southeast Arkansas guys, Highland Park guys tend to have their picks of whoever they want during recruitment. Except they chose Phi Delt, who is higher socially but not as high as EX, KE, and SAE.

Why, you may ask.

Because Phi Delt is very good at Southern Methodist University in Highlanad Park, Dallas. Probably the best, last time I checked. So, they chose the brand-name recognition that their families and friends all knew and connected with one one of the best.


(I think this has to do with the situation but it may not.)
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Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance it happens very far away way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
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  #28  
Old 01-04-2010, 08:12 PM
TSteven TSteven is offline
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Originally Posted by Low C Sharp View Post
I might add that Mary Sue IS drilled and coached on the skills and rules that will serve her in recruitment...but from age 3 to age 15, not as a high school senior. No one is born knowing that you don't wear white shoes after Labor Day. Mary Sue's mama made sure she knew about that. School-aged Mary Sue went to dancing class and tea parties and cotillions where she had a chance to practice her social graces (and mama had a chance to whip her into shape if she made any mistakes). She IS groomed from birth, but for the life of the social elite in Anytown, not for rush per se.

The first few pages of a novel about Mary Sue, which Mary Sue wrote in her 50s and which you can read on Amazon, explain the process in detail:

http://www.amazon.com/Heartbreak-Hot...der_1416544909
I've read it. Good book. The campus is suppose to be Auburn in the 1950s. However, the sorority women live in houses so I am sure it is a composite of various Southern campuses and Greek Life.
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  #29  
Old 01-04-2010, 08:12 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
But silly, she and hubby DON'T leave Anytown (usually).
Do you mean that as in future big shot from Othertown would have to move to Anytown because that is where his wife is from? Or do people seriously restrict their spouse selection to their hometown friends?
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  #30  
Old 01-04-2010, 08:15 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie View Post
Do you mean that as in future big shot from Othertown would have to move to Anytown because that is where his wife is from? Or do people seriously restrict their spouse selection to their hometown friends?
In some circles, it generally works like this:

Anytown ABC mixes most with Anytown DEF Fraternity. Mary Sue (as an ABC woman) spends most of her time with these men (many of whom she already knows from HS, the neighborhood, etc). She naturally dates and marries an Anytown DEF. He gets a job in Anytown and they stay there.
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Last edited by KSUViolet06; 01-04-2010 at 08:18 PM.
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