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  #16  
Old 11-16-2009, 01:32 PM
Leslie Anne Leslie Anne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psy View Post
That's really interesting... Here, we're under constant pressure (it seems) to be at total.
Just curious, is it a housing issue? I've worked with a chapter that had to COB constantly to fill beds.
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  #17  
Old 11-17-2009, 10:39 AM
psy psy is offline
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Live-in maximum is around 2/3 of total (at least at my chapter; I assume it's similar for the other 3), so most of the chapters are around or slightly below that.
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  #18  
Old 11-17-2009, 04:36 PM
Blade118 Blade118 is offline
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At my school total changes every year. Even though we're not a NPC sorority, we're still under Panhell at my school and go through deferred formal recruitment. When I was in school total would shift between 30-40 each year. I think it's currently at 35, but some of the sororities wanted it to go up to 40. If not all chapters are able to reach total and have to continuously COB, it's good to re-evaluate the number each year or every couple of years. The changes in total have helped some chapters over the years that we were struggling with recruitment.
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  #19  
Old 11-25-2009, 02:12 PM
SthrnZeta SthrnZeta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade118 View Post
At my school total changes every year. Even though we're not a NPC sorority, we're still under Panhell at my school and go through deferred formal recruitment. When I was in school total would shift between 30-40 each year. I think it's currently at 35, but some of the sororities wanted it to go up to 40. If not all chapters are able to reach total and have to continuously COB, it's good to re-evaluate the number each year or every couple of years. The changes in total have helped some chapters over the years that we were struggling with recruitment.
Are you referring to quota or total? Quota is definitely something that changes every year since it's based on FR figures, while total is something that is under review each year but not usually changed annually since the decision to change it is based on several past years membership figures.
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  #20  
Old 11-25-2009, 02:17 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I think her school has a fair amount of locals and commuter students, and therefore, fewer people pitching a bitch about lowering total for housing/$$$ reasons.
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  #21  
Old 11-28-2009, 02:31 PM
Amy Kates Amy Kates is offline
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NPC recommends that total be reviewed each year following formal recruitment. Factors to consider when determining a proper total for the campus are: Average Chapter Size, Maximum Chapter size, Quota trends, Housing needs and campus trends. Your College Panhellenic should work with the NPC Area Advisor to determine the best total for your campus at this time. If one chapter continuously meets or exceeds total by making quota annually, you need to consider that a lower total may create a total gap where the largest sorority will continue to grow while the others are held smaller by a low total. Which is also a reason it should be reviewed annually. Your NPC area advisor is the College Panhellenic's best resource.
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  #22  
Old 11-28-2009, 06:47 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by Amy Kates View Post
If one chapter continuously meets or exceeds total by making quota annually, you need to consider that a lower total may create a total gap where the largest sorority will continue to grow while the others are held smaller by a low total.
I don't quite get this statement. The other groups are allowed to open bid up to quota within the designated period after formal rush and up to total any time they want - it would be more of a question of the smaller groups rushing in the off semester (whenever that may be) and they'll get up to total, while the big chapter does nothing because it's already full. Eventually, the largest chapter will graduate out its "excess" of members and everything will be on an even keel.

It's not just about the numbers, it's about taking the pressure off of the smaller groups that they get from their HQs to be at total. HQ does not always understand that total isn't a realistic number for the campus climate at current - they just see the group is not meeting it and don't bother to investigate further. Constant harangues about your "failure" in this area are not good for the group's self esteem and go a long way towards making the members hate rush (and ergo, doing even worse at it).
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  #23  
Old 11-28-2009, 07:06 PM
Blade118 Blade118 is offline
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I was referring to total not quota. Our total is reviewed each year and will change when needed. I shouldn't have said it changes every year in my earlier post because I'm not 100% sure how things have been since I've been out of school. Sorry for any confusion. When I was there total was 38 the last I remember. It has since been lowered. As 33girl mentioned, we are a big commuter school in a metropolitan area and do not have houses. When total is lowered, housing and things like that aren't really a factor. It's more to help the sororities that are having problems with recruitment so we don't have the disparity in numbers.
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2009, 07:57 PM
Amy Kates Amy Kates is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
I don't quite get this statement. The other groups are allowed to open bid up to quota within the designated period after formal rush and up to total any time they want - it would be more of a question of the smaller groups rushing in the off semester (whenever that may be) and they'll get up to total, while the big chapter does nothing because it's already full. Eventually, the largest chapter will graduate out its "excess" of members and everything will be on an even keel.

It's not just about the numbers, it's about taking the pressure off of the smaller groups that they get from their HQs to be at total. HQ does not always understand that total isn't a realistic number for the campus climate at current - they just see the group is not meeting it and don't bother to investigate further. Constant harangues about your "failure" in this area are not good for the group's self esteem and go a long way towards making the members hate rush (and ergo, doing even worse at it).
It depends on quota vis a vis total and yes, total gaps are a very real concern on many campuses. I can't speak for every HQ, so I can't comment on that part. An example would be where total is 50. Quota is 25, everyone makes quota, but one group has 75 members after recruitment. No one can catch up. They may graduate 20, but so will everyone else.

Last edited by Amy Kates; 11-28-2009 at 07:59 PM.
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2009, 09:28 PM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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I think 33girl was confused by this (as was I):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Kates View Post
If one chapter continuously meets or exceeds total by making quota annually, you need to consider that a lower total may create a total gap where the largest sorority will continue to grow while the others are held smaller by a low total.
Wouldn't a lower total benefit the smaller chapters?
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  #26  
Old 11-28-2009, 10:02 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by Amy Kates View Post
It depends on quota vis a vis total and yes, total gaps are a very real concern on many campuses. I can't speak for every HQ, so I can't comment on that part. An example would be where total is 50. Quota is 25, everyone makes quota, but one group has 75 members after recruitment. No one can catch up. They may graduate 20, but so will everyone else.
This is only pertinent if you have a situation in which the majority (as in 99%) of the rushees are freshmen. Absolutely not the case at many campuses. Not only that, 4 years and graduated is far from set in stone these days - it hasn't been that way for a long time.

Also, it's very very rare that there is one bigger than everyone group and the rest are lagging behind - it's usually the other way around.
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:58 PM
psy psy is offline
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OP here. Basically, after talking to my chapter's alum/exec board (which I'm on) the idea's out, due to the possibility that we would "price ourselves out of the market" (due to having less members to spread the expenses over, thus resulting in higher costs--when we had fewer members in the past, we did things like cut off-campus retreats and charge nominal fees for functions to reduce costs).

Seems like a reasonable position to me.
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  #28  
Old 11-29-2009, 12:37 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by psy View Post
OP here. Basically, after talking to my chapter's alum/exec board (which I'm on) the idea's out, due to the possibility that we would "price ourselves out of the market" (due to having less members to spread the expenses over, thus resulting in higher costs--when we had fewer members in the past, we did things like cut off-campus retreats and charge nominal fees for functions to reduce costs).

Seems like a reasonable position to me.
Forgive me for shooting off my mouth, but this sounds like the cart before the horse. Wouldn't it make more sense to tailor what you do to the number of members instead of the other way around? As far as a sisterhood or rush retreat, for example, can't you find a smaller/cheaper venue or do it at the house? Don't get caught in the trap of "this is what we've always done so we have to keep doing it even if it bankrupts us."

Not only that, as the largest chapter, you need to be Panhellenic and think about what the other groups are going through - you said you even feel the constant pressure. How about trying to get the groups to all work together with venues and such - you might get a discount that way.

If you have a house to maintain that is appreciably larger than the other groups' houses, and this is hurting you, get a smaller house. Again, don't let tradition cripple you financially.
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  #29  
Old 11-29-2009, 09:47 PM
Amy Kates Amy Kates is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
This is only pertinent if you have a situation in which the majority (as in 99%) of the rushees are freshmen. Absolutely not the case at many campuses. Not only that, 4 years and graduated is far from set in stone these days - it hasn't been that way for a long time.

Also, it's very very rare that there is one bigger than everyone group and the rest are lagging behind - it's usually the other way around.
You probably know more than I do, because I'm only familiar with the campuses where we have chapters and there are over 500 campuses with an NPC recognized Panhellenic. We're only on about 1/5 of those campuses, so I should not pretend to be the expert here. I'll say that I've seen a total gap as I've described on a couple of our campuses, and also a few (maybe 4) where housing makes it impossible to lower total. Also, I'll say that for our International Fraternity, Kappa Alpha Theta works with our chapters to set a recruitment goal if a chapter is below total so that once they reach that goal (even if they're still below total), they stop recruiting. You're right that recruiting all of the time is a drag and really can set chapter morale back. However, I will also say that for us, it is rare to find a campus where being the smallest or a small chapter is not a stigma. But, we are on mostly large campuses with traditional Greek systems. Again, not the norm, and only a small percentage of the real life Greek world.
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  #30  
Old 11-29-2009, 09:52 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by Amy Kates View Post
Also, I'll say that for our International Fraternity, Kappa Alpha Theta works with our chapters to set a recruitment goal if a chapter is below total so that once they reach that goal (even if they're still below total), they stop recruiting. You're right that recruiting all of the time is a drag and really can set chapter morale back.
I think most groups have finally gotten a clue and do something like this, rather than "go from 15 to total/60 in two semesters - just do it." Umm, if they could do that, they'd be flying around on a unicorn with Oprah. I'm not saying that doesn't happen sometimes, but there are usually extenuating circumstances (merger with a local group, block rushing, etc.).

And yeah, there are definitely some places where housing is a determining factor and total is what it is.
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