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  #31  
Old 10-06-2001, 02:15 AM
amycat412 amycat412 is offline
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Current Chi O's may know this, since I'm an alum, I have no idea-- What does Nationals do when the individual campus says pledge periods can't be more than 8 weeks?
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  #32  
Old 10-08-2001, 03:46 PM
soonergal soonergal is offline
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I think that our campus may have something like that, because one of the older girls in my house told me that we got it approved because it is a national thing. So I guess if it is a national rule, then the campus will let you wait longer for initiation.
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  #33  
Old 10-08-2001, 04:22 PM
USL_grl USL_grl is offline
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Question

I think it is bad to initiate before grades are made the first semester. That just looks like they are trying to get the money, rather than seeing who is capable of staying around the four years you would like them to be members. I think everyone knows what real hazing is and that has no place anywhere-but let's give pledges, or whatever you want to call them, enough time to make grades and make up their minds that the organization is right for them.
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  #34  
Old 10-08-2001, 11:29 PM
bruinaphi bruinaphi is offline
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New Member Periods

While I pledged in August and was initiated in February, I fully support the 8 week new member period and doing away with new member exams. I have seen new member periods without exams and without extended time periods turn out members who have been involved in their fraternities for over 10 years now. It is not really that difficult to introduce people to sisterhood, history and a lifetime of opportunity in a two month period.

New member exams are not just hazing, they are also a waste of time! I remember spending a lot of time studying for them, making sure I knew every last detail about each founder, etc. when I could have been studying for my classes. My chapter hasn't done new members exams now for almost ten years and if you ask our current members who our founders are and other information that was on new member exams they can still tell you. It is all about programming and educating your members throughout their time in college and as alumnae.

In terms of scholarship, we as fraternity women consider ourselves developers of women - if you pledge someone in fall and they don't make grades, you should look at your membership development program and see what you can do to help your members, new and active to be more successful scholastically. It is not just new members that need study hours and study buddies. All members need to study and chapters should provide incentives for studying.

Just my two cents.
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  #35  
Old 10-09-2001, 01:04 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Re: New Member Periods

Quote:
Originally posted by lauradav
New member exams are not just hazing, they are also a waste of time! I remember spending a lot of time studying for them, making sure I knew every last detail about each founder, etc. when I could have been studying for my classes.
I'm sorry that you considered learning about your sorority a "waste of time" when measured against a lifetime of sisterhood. That is part of what the semester of pledging is about, to help you learn time management. If everyone gets coddled and has things handed to them on a silver platter, maybe they will make grades that semester so they can initiate, but what happens the next semester when they are on their own and no one is holding their hand? I've heard people get through pledgeship all smiling and happy and then whine after they are active "this is soooo much work!" and go inactive because they can't handle the responsibility.

As far as pledge exams being hazing, I completely disagree. You need to have some sort of yardstick to show whether each individual has tried to learn about the sorority. That's when you find out who the rest of the pledge class carried for 6-8 weeks. One minute we preach developing personal responsibility and the next it's hazing if we ask someone to learn what are relatively easy facts about the org they will be part of forever. Come on, which is it?
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  #36  
Old 10-09-2001, 01:08 PM
ZetaLuvBunny ZetaLuvBunny is offline
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Our new member program (ZTA) lasts 6 to 8 weeks. In my opinion, there are misunderstandings on both sides of the fence, for example; guys think girls have it really easy because they are not as likely to be hazed, the are given presents, and because their pledge period is shorter, but as far as I know (please clarify this for me if it isn't true), guys have it easier in the way that there are not as many rules for them concerning behavior. Most sorority girls are expected to follow sets of rules which range from not drinking or smoking in their letters, to behaving like a lady while in letters (or even all the time), to not spending the night at a fraternity house, etc.

I think these rules all have good reasoning, and I certainly will obey them being the respectful new member that I am. I personally think it is somewhat sexist, however, that fraternity men are allowed to drink, smoke, and act like just plain fools while even wearing their badges or letters. Especially in Tennessee, where we as sorority girls are not allowed to have houses because they're considered "whore houses", and that is such complete B.S. ! That particular housing rule is the one that really ticks me off, but it seems that most guys agree that it's a dumb rule as well. Oh, well...I'm just ranting now...
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  #37  
Old 10-09-2001, 01:09 PM
Betarulz! Betarulz! is offline
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Re: Re: New Member Periods

Quote:
Originally posted by 33girl


I'm sorry that you considered learning about your sorority a "waste of time" when measured against a lifetime of sisterhood. That is part of what the semester of pledging is about, to help you learn time management.
As far as pledge exams being hazing, I completely disagree.

You need to have some sort of yardstick to show whether each individual has tried to learn about the sorority. That's when you find out who the rest of the pledge class carried for 6-8 weeks.
I completely agree with both of these statements, applying them to a semester pledgeship. I'm pretty sure it's the same at other chapters, but here, we have a point system, of which New member exams are a significant portion of the points, and Grades make up the largest portion (40%), and that determines roll number. And roll number in turn determines the order of room choice, and who gets a parking spot in the lot, and numerous other things.

Obviously you hope that you rush quality people, that you've made the proper cuts about things you found in rush apps, that you found people who are friendly etc. but in the end you need to determine if that person is really what your organization stands for. Especially for sororities, since new members don't live in, it would seem that a longer, or more rigorous pledgship would allow the most accurate way to truly test the individual. Also if the pledgship is rigorous--well then the following semesters will become far easier as things like new member tests are no longer around to subtract from study time.
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  #38  
Old 10-09-2001, 03:03 PM
UMgirl
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Quote:
New member exams are not just hazing, they are also a waste of time! I remember spending a lot of time studying for them, making sure I knew every last detail about each founder, etc. when I could have been studying for my classes. My chapter hasn't done new members exams now for almost ten years and if you ask our current members who our founders are and other information that was on new member exams they can still tell you. It is all about programming and educating your members throughout their time in college and as alumnae

This is just my opinion, but this statement doesnt help the hazing problems we do have. Hazing is something (in my opinion) that ould cause mental or physical danger. How is taking a test hazing? I mean if we go by thse terms , then making your new members wear the same shirt on Bid Day could be considered hazing. If we keep considering anything hazing, we wont be bale to do any activities soon.

You need to know the history, yes you can learn it without a test, but I know for my chapter the test helped us to understand the initiation we went through. We werent like, "what the heck was that all about?" when it was done. But to each his own. My 2 cents.
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  #39  
Old 10-09-2001, 04:38 PM
SigkapAlumWSU SigkapAlumWSU is offline
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Ok, maybe this is just me but there is just somehting that I don't understand.

Why would learning about the organization that you are about to become a part of for the rest of your life be a terrible thing? I looked forward to learning about my Organization and its unique and interesting history. I enjoyed the time I spent with my sisters discussing how exciting it must have been for our founders. I am sure that my founders are proud that every sister knows our history. How can you learning and education (you know, the reason we are at college!!) a bad thing? These are organizations that we are all a part of for a lifetime, not just our college years, and I know that I carry that knwoledge with enjoyment and pleasure.

Can someone please tell me?
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  #40  
Old 10-09-2001, 06:14 PM
bruinaphi bruinaphi is offline
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Learn to Read

33girl, you might want to reread what I wrote and what you quoted. I said that "New member exams are not just hazing, they are also a waste of time!" I did not say that learning about my fraternity was a waste of time.

I am sorry that many of you don't see how new member exams make some women feel uncomfortable, especially based on the fact that they seperate out the new members from the active members, cause some new members to be singled out as inadequate or stupid, and generally add unnecessary stress to the new member period. Many strong GLOs have implemented very successful new member programs that do not include examinations yet turn out women who are very loyal to and knowledgeable about their GLO.

College women today need to be treated with respect. They attend new member meetings, learn and participate, and in MY OPINION, making them study for exams when they could be studying for classes or participating in their communities is just an indicator of your lack of respect for their time.

I find it very sad that none of you can understand where I am coming from on this subject. The success of the Greek System in the twenty-first century depends upon all of us thinking outside the box a little bit. With closed minds the system as a whole is not going to get very far.
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  #41  
Old 10-09-2001, 06:29 PM
James James is offline
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Re: Learn to Read

I understand where you are coming from Lauradav in terms of new member tests. But you have to realize that its just EASIER for the members to use a test base system, it doesn't require any thought or creativity. I will say one of the most bizare things I ever saw was watching pledge educators make the NM read and memorize the chapter without telling them exactly what was going to be tested in advance . . talk about wasting the poor person's time.

Quote:
Originally posted by lauradav
33girl, you might want to reread what I wrote and what you quoted. I said that "New member exams are not just hazing, they are also a waste of time!" I did not say that learning about my fraternity was a waste of time.

I am sorry that many of you don't see how new member exams make some women feel uncomfortable, especially based on the fact that they seperate out the new members from the active members, cause some new members to be singled out as inadequate or stupid, and generally add unnecessary stress to the new member period. Many strong GLOs have implemented very successful new member programs that do not include examinations yet turn out women who are very loyal to and knowledgeable about their GLO.

College women today need to be treated with respect. They attend new member meetings, learn and participate, and in MY OPINION, making them study for exams when they could be studying for classes or participating in their communities is just an indicator of your lack of respect for their time.

I find it very sad that none of you can understand where I am coming from on this subject. The success of the Greek System in the twenty-first century depends upon all of us thinking outside the box a little bit. With closed minds the system as a whole is not going to get very far.
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  #42  
Old 10-09-2001, 08:26 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Sorry laura, but it came across that you seemed VERY resentful that you had to "waste your time" "making sure you knew every last detail about each founder." That tone translated to me as you were very irritated about having to learn it, period. All we had to know for testing purposes was our founders full (first, maiden, and married) names. If your sorority forced you to learn far over and beyond that, maybe they should have just tweaked that part instead of doing away with tests altogether. We knew exactly what was going to be on our new member exam and didn't have to learn anything we didn't use (although a lot of women were fascinated by the sorority's history and explored it on their own).

Yet another diatribe against separating the new members in any way from the active members....we mustn't do anything that might make the delicate flowers feel the least bit uncomfortable...blah, blah, blah. A lot of times, in a big chapter or even a not so big chapter, your pledgeship is the only time you ever get to feel special! That is how I looked at it....not that I was singled out in a negative way, but in a positive way. Maybe that's hard on women who are on the shy or reticent side, but that is part of helping your sisters to grow. Someone on here has in her sig (pardon me if I screw this up) "I went in meek as a kitten and came out roaring like a lion!" I can so empathize with that...and I think a lot of other people can too. How can we say we are helping to empower and strenghthen young women if we don't give them challenges? And to me taking a new member test is the LEAST challenging thing I did during my pledgeship. If we say that is "too stressful" how can we expect members to take on anything else? As to treating pledges with respect...how could I possibly respect someone more than to ask them to share and learn about one of the things I love most in the world?

BTW - no one is "making" new members study for tests, go to mixers, or anything else. The last I checked, rush was voluntary. A woman goes through rush knowing if she accepts membership she is taking on RESPONSIBILITY. I know that's a dirty word nowadays, but we really need to get reacquainted with it.

Last edited by 33girl; 10-09-2001 at 08:33 PM.
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  #43  
Old 10-09-2001, 08:30 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Re: Re: Re: New Member Periods

Quote:
Originally posted by Betarulz!


Obviously you hope that you rush quality people, that you've made the proper cuts about things you found in rush apps, that you found people who are friendly etc. but in the end you need to determine if that person is really what your organization stands for. Especially for sororities, since new members don't live in, it would seem that a longer, or more rigorous pledgship would allow the most accurate way to truly test the individual. Also if the pledgship is rigorous--well then the following semesters will become far easier as things like new member tests are no longer around to subtract from study time.
Bravo! Bravo! So young and yet so brilliant. You've only been in the Greek system a few months, and you already get it. Big kiss to you!!
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  #44  
Old 10-09-2001, 10:31 PM
Beryana Beryana is offline
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Just an example/analogy

We're all in college, or graduated college, right? Going to classes was basically voluntary, right? We all decided that we wanted the end results, that very expensive piece of paper. In order to get that piece of paper we all had/have to attend classes, write papers, TAKE EXAMS--all on information that one person (or a couple people) feel is important for us to know. That information is drilled into us--and sometimes we aren't told what information is going to be on the exam, yet we have to take it. We also had to take those pesky general education classes that no one really liked but you had to take because you want that piece of paper. Sometimes we didn't feel comfortable taking the exams for whatever reason, but we HAD to take them--and pass them or you don't get that little piece of paper. Also, some schools have 4-6 weeks classes (Cornell College), some have 16 week classes (most colleges and universities), some even have longer or shorter semesters. Either way, you still have to 'cram' all the information into that set timeframe and its up to the student to make sure that he/she knows it.

Does this not sound a lot like the discussion that is currently going on about pledge period length and the NM exams?!

Just my thoughts as I was reading the posts.

Sarah

P.S. I'm all for the NM exams--knowing the information (even if its cramming--because some will stick, especially if you have yearly member exams) is the basis on which our rituals are grounded.
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  #45  
Old 10-09-2001, 11:37 PM
USL_grl USL_grl is offline
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Question

Is it just me, or does it seem like maybe they are trying to get around hazing problems by initiating sooner? The only problems with hazing seem to be during the pledge period-so this could be what they are trying to avoid. It just seems too soon, but it could be an answer.
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