GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Risk Management - Hazing & etc.

Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.


Register Now for FREE!
Join GreekChat.com, The Fraternity & Sorority Greek Chat Network. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

» GC Stats
Members: 285,374
Threads: 113,643
Posts: 2,144,024
Welcome to our newest member, milsqdarka8260
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 12-10-2016, 08:54 AM
agzg agzg is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: but I am le tired...
Posts: 7,239
The reality of the situation is that a lot of these seemingly innocuous things (interviews, notebooks, signed daggers, etc.) are logistically harder to accomplish with the shorter NM periods first, can be arduous to complete for larger chapters second, and open the door to one jerk sister (and let's be real, there's always at least one jerk sister in every chapter no matter how small) taking it upon herself to make tracking her down for a chat/interview/signature really, really tough on new members, causing undue stress and taking time away from the real reason any of them are in school in the first place.

I had a ton of fun during my new member period, and I was lucky in that I was able to balance schoolwork and fun in a way that allowed me to keep my grades up. A few of my pledge sisters were not so lucky and had to defer initiation until they could get them up. Thinking about even my own collegiate chapter, which is bigger now, doing some of the things we did in "my day," with a shorter New Member period, and understanding that programs of study at my university are not magically getting easier... I can totally understand the shift away from these activities even if HQs weren't getting involved to put a stop to them.

And that's not even going into the other "fun" stuff we did that was actually pretty freaking dangerous.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-10-2016, 12:06 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 33,137
But the point is, when the pledge periods were longer, you had more time to do all that. I did all that in 6 weeks, but I also had a chapter of 35. There's no way I would recommend that program in that time to an aporeciably larger chapter. That's part of what sororities are supposed to be teaching women: to think critically and take responsibility for your actions. If your chapter doubles in size and the majority of women have issues completing your program or making grades, that's a sign that you need to change up your program. If there's pushback, you need to be able to explain why you're changing and ask for ideas, help and support. As far as the jerk sister, that's why you have a pledgemistress. She's there to run interference. Again, if the majority of pledges have an issue, it can be ascertained with critical thinking that the sister is the problem.

We were founded in some cases by women of 15 or 16 who had remarkable foresight and courage. And ironically, now we're infantilizing 19-20 year olds because we don't think they can they can think.
__________________
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-10-2016, 12:34 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,718
When did we decide that you had to do interviews, cook dinner for sisters, and play DD for older sisters, etc. or *insert 80s pledge period thing here* or else you did not learn to think critically/take responsibility? I and the majority of my higher up volunteer counterparts did not pledge in the 80s. We are all critical thinkers!

I also do not think a NM period that holds NMs to the same standard as initiated women without having them do "pledges only" tasks infantilizes them. Or are you speaking for ASA specifically? I will admit that I know very little about the current NM period programming of other NPCs. I'd be curious as to why you think ASA's program is infantilizing. Do the NMs just literally show up to some meetings and get initiated?


__________________
"Remember that apathy has no place in our Sorority." - Kelly Jo Karnes, Pi

Lakers Nation.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-10-2016, 01:50 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 14,748
I was initiated in 1984 and my pledge period was 8 weeks- same as it is now. Numbers wise, there simply aren't that many women who don't make grades today. Of course in 1984, the minimum GPA was a 2.0 to initiate and it's significantly higher now. Back then, if they didn't make grades, they got kicked out of school anyway.

The way information is presented is much, much better than it used to be, but the real requirements to be initiated haven't changed much at all. Our test was oral and it's a written test now. None of the things that aren't allowed now were ever part of our program from the International org. It was stuff that chapters made up and it really didn't serve a purpose.

I was really glad I wasn't in the chapter of women who had to go around campus blindfolded, hanging onto a rope with their hair in curlers and cold cream smeared all over their faces. I would have turned around and walked away from that group in a hot minute.

I had a boyfriend in a Fraternity so the fraternity guys didn't bug me much but some of my sisters were expected to kiss guys to get their signatures. And yes, agzg is right, there were also some sisters who were jerks. Our VP Fraternity Education could talk to them AFTER something happened, but once it happens, it is already too late. As one of the sisters who always had to run interference to keep pledges and sisters safe, that was unfair to me to put me in that position. It made me angry with my sisters a lot of the time and it ruined events for me because I was always having to save someone from themselves(because they were out of control drunk) or from someone else (because they were trying to haze a sister or a sister was being sexually assaulted). Not the good old days from what I remember...
__________________
AGD
Live with Purpose!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-10-2016, 03:16 PM
Cheerio Cheerio is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Noah's building his ark here
Posts: 2,151
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
But the point is, when the pledge periods were longer, you had more time to do all that. I did all that in 6 weeks, but I also had a chapter of 35. There's no way I would recommend that program in that time to an aporeciably larger chapter. That's part of what sororities are supposed to be teaching women: to think critically and take responsibility for your actions. If your chapter doubles in size and the majority of women have issues completing your program or making grades, that's a sign that you need to change up your program. If there's pushback, you need to be able to explain why you're changing and ask for ideas, help and support. As far as the jerk sister, that's why you have a pledgemistress. She's there to run interference. Again, if the majority of pledges have an issue, it can be ascertained with critical thinking that the sister is the problem.

We were founded in some cases by women of 15 or 16 who had remarkable foresight and courage. And ironically, now we're infantilizing 19-20 year olds because we don't think they can they can think.
This!
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-11-2016, 02:27 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 33,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
When did we decide that you had to do interviews, cook dinner for sisters, and play DD for older sisters, etc. or *insert 80s pledge period thing here* or else you did not learn to think critically/take responsibility? I and the majority of my higher up volunteer counterparts did not pledge in the 80s. We are all critical thinkers!

I also do not think a NM period that holds NMs to the same standard as initiated women without having them do "pledges only" tasks infantilizes them. Or are you speaking for ASA specifically? I will admit that I know very little about the current NM period programming of other NPCs. I'd be curious as to why you think ASA's program is infantilizing. Do the NMs just literally show up to some meetings and get initiated?


You totally misread what I was saying. It is not the specific things that are included in the program that help you learn critical thinking (and FWIW I never had to DD or cook for a sister), it is being able to decide what should be included and figuring out the best practices that help your pledges to become a vital part of YOUR chapter, YOUR campus, and YOUR community. Removing that autonomy is what's infantilizing. If there was a chapter out there who initiated pledges 3 days after giving bids and they had a strong chapter with fantastic retention, that's cool with me. If there's a chapter out there who needs a semester to attain that, that's cool with me too. Is it more work to sort through and approve different programs? Yes. Is it worth it? Yes.
__________________
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-12-2017, 03:32 PM
craigrx craigrx is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 9
The definition of hazing has become much more broad than it used to be and I've noticed a big disconnect between what the national office views as hazing and what the university views as hazing. Big one is pledge book. Our pledges were required to have all members sign their book but that was shut down last year as "illegal hazing". I always viewed hazing as mandatory fifth chugs, 10 mile pledge hikes, study hours, etc. Signing a damn book is not hazing but unfortunately I don't make the rules.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-24-2017, 11:24 AM
HQWest HQWest is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigrx View Post
The definition of hazing has become much more broad than it used to be and I've noticed a big disconnect between what the national office views as hazing and what the university views as hazing. Big one is pledge book. Our pledges were required to have all members sign their book but that was shut down last year as "illegal hazing". I always viewed hazing as mandatory fifth chugs, 10 mile pledge hikes, study hours, etc. Signing a damn book is not hazing but unfortunately I don't make the rules.
Some of this is not a particular chapter but campus culture that made it easier to close the door on activities rather than try to evaluate how far is too far on each of them. I was not asked to sign a book or paddle but my roommate's group and my friend down the hall were. Several sisters made them do things like flash a guy, get a guy to sign her um.. lower back, take shots, find out from someone else what their favorite food was, etc. It only takes one or two to make this escalate pretty quickly - from funny "ha ha you embarrassed yourself talking to a stranger " to wild.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-24-2017, 11:58 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 33,137
Then you discipline those sisters, and tell the NMs they don't have to get their interviews. That's why NMs have bigs and/or a NM coordinator - to take these problems to during pledging.
__________________
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-24-2017, 04:10 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 3,344
Send a message via AIM to shadokat Send a message via Yahoo to shadokat
As a LONG TIME advisor, and having pledged 24 years ago, the NM program has become somewhat ridiculous.

As a pledge, I was required to interview each sister and get their signature by showing them I knew stuff about them. We had NM projects like creating a NM class banner, creating a sisterhood banner, having a theme party for the chapter, doing a fundraising event (think a bake sale) for philanthropy, scavenger hunts and a couple other things. I never was a DD for drunk sisters, I never had to cook or clean or do favors for actives or that nonsense.

Today, the NMs are required to do little more than go to 2 meetings a week, go to their NM rituals and that's about it. Much of the "getting to know you" with sisters is gone from programs, sanitized with a national NM program. Then, when women are initiated (which subsequently, when I pledged, we didn't know when we were being initiated...we had a night when we were done with our NM program, called getting in, and we were initiated the following semester provided we passed the NM test and met grades), but when women are initiated, they are constantly overprogrammed because they think sorority is going to 2 meetings a week. But no, now they have to go to chapter, go to their committee meetings, go to philanthropy events, go to sisterhood events, go to workshops, go to ritual, go to recruitment, go to formal, go to mixers...GO GO GO! And everything is freaking mandatory. So now you've sold these NMs a bill of goods that they didn't sign up for, and they end up saying fuck this, I don't need this stress, because I never became invested in this sorority thing during the first 6 weeks of sorority life.

Nothing is going to change this...we're not turning the clock back to doing sister interviews and scavenger hunts. And we're still going to treat our NMs as princesses, and then once they get initiated, we will treat them like the work horse we expect everyone to be. Sorry, just calling it like I see it, and I see it ALL THE TIME!
__________________
Be a leader; Be Yourself; Be DPhiE - Esse Quam Videri
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sorority "uniforms" - clothes, shoes, etc. - help people recognize "sorority girls"" exlurker Greek Life 12 06-30-2015 06:23 PM
Teacher Calls A Student the "N" Word, the "Slang Version" AKA2D '91 Alpha Kappa Alpha 23 05-08-2008 01:24 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.