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  #31  
Old 02-10-2017, 08:53 PM
aggieAXO aggieAXO is offline
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I personally think finances play a huge roll in women leaving. I work with many younger veterinarians that are six figures in debt and will be this way for many years to come. The enormous debt will have a say in every aspect of their lives, from getting married to even having children. Tuition continues to rise and financial aid continues to diminish. I can see very tough times ahead for some of these organizations as I think some students will have to decide on whether it is worth taking out more loans to join.
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  #32  
Old 02-11-2017, 07:10 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by FSUZeta View Post
Good point, but I will say that on several occasions I saw girls who told us advisors that they could not pay their monthly dues- an unhoused chapter, so dues ran between $100-200/month- out for dinners and drinks at nice restaurants where the typical bill per person would average $40-50, and FB photos of said girls living it up at the clubs, where they easily could have dropped another $40-50.....therefore, had their priorities been different, could have paid their dues by missing one or two nights of entertainment.
Just because there are pictures of you out and about doesn't necessarily mean you're spending money there. I recall many times when people would be drinking pop or water at the bars simply because they were too broke for anything alcoholic, and their cover charge was paid with coins dug out of the couch.

I know there are those people who are doing what you say, but please don't paint everyone with the same brush.

(This argument would be more foolproof if we were discussing men instead of women, incidentally. )
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  #33  
Old 02-11-2017, 08:42 AM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Just because there are pictures of you out and about doesn't necessarily mean you're spending money there. I recall many times when people would be drinking pop or water at the bars simply because they were too broke for anything alcoholic, and their cover charge was paid with coins dug out of the couch.

I know there are those people who are doing what you say, but please don't paint everyone with the same brush.

(This argument would be more foolproof if we were discussing men instead of women, incidentally. )
And this is where Honor Board/Standards should have a chat with the young lady to discern the facts and advise her on this behaviour.

We once had a young lady who was continual in arrears financially and told us the family was having difficulties. PH put on an event where fraternity men auctioned off their help - yard work, car washing, cooking dinner, etc - for philanthropy. I had to send our president over to this lady to tell her she had bid/bought her last auction item or I'd see her in Honor Board. She had money - it's her priorities that were the problem.
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  #34  
Old 02-11-2017, 09:00 AM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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AGD did a study around retention and contacted members who had resigned for various reasons to find out the real reasons, several years later. Finance is the easy excuse to quit because nobody can really say no to it, especially if you just stop paying dues. In most cases, you will find the time and money to do something that is bringing value to your life. If the organization is meeting your expectations, you find a way to make it work. Are we selling (in recruitment) something that we are not providing (in the real experience as a member)?

I have, frankly, not seen retention issues in "healthy" chapters. Retention issues require a better look at the chapter as a whole, assessing whether we are meeting their needs/expectations and adapting if we are not (if possible).

In my day, when a member's parent was laid off, the rest of us all kicked in a few bucks to pay her dues. That was sisterhood.
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  #35  
Old 02-11-2017, 10:34 AM
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AZTheta AZTheta is offline
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FSUZeta - I'd add to the list of "priorities":

paying for spray tans, manicures/pedicures/hair coloring/clothing/shoes/purses/jewelry (all high end name brands),weekend trips to Vegas,daily Starbucks drinks, etc - but sorority dues? Nope.

I saw it all and then some.

No concept of budget. No concept of financial priorities and obligations. It's all form, no substance.
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  #36  
Old 02-11-2017, 02:37 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Just because there are pictures of you out and about doesn't necessarily mean you're spending money there. I recall many times when people would be drinking pop or water at the bars simply because they were too broke for anything alcoholic, and their cover charge was paid with coins dug out of the couch.

I know there are those people who are doing what you say, but please don't paint everyone with the same brush.

(This argument would be more foolproof if we were discussing men instead of women, incidentally. )
Please don't generalize my comment. I was speaking of specific (former) members. And give advisors some credit: we don't make judgements from photos. The photos lead to an investigation of those members. It was proven that they had chosen to spend discretionary income on nice dinners and partying, rather than paying dues. They were sent to standards and relieved of their memberships. And this wasn't a one off- it was a pattern over several months.
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  #37  
Old 02-11-2017, 02:38 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Originally Posted by AZTheta View Post
FSUZeta - I'd add to the list of "priorities":

paying for spray tans, manicures/pedicures/hair coloring/clothing/shoes/purses/jewelry (all high end name brands),weekend trips to Vegas,daily Starbucks drinks, etc - but sorority dues? Nope.

I saw it all and then some.

No concept of budget. No concept of financial priorities and obligations. It's all form, no substance.
Absolutely!
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  #38  
Old 02-11-2017, 03:00 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Originally Posted by FSUZeta View Post
Please don't generalize my comment. I was speaking of specific (former) members. And give advisors some credit: we don't make judgements from photos. The photos lead to an investigation of those members. It was proven that they had chosen to spend discretionary income on nice dinners and partying, rather than paying dues. They were sent to standards and relieved of their memberships. And this wasn't a one off- it was a pattern over several months.
This!
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  #39  
Old 02-11-2017, 08:54 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
We once had a young lady who was continual in arrears financially and told us the family was having difficulties. PH put on an event where fraternity men auctioned off their help - yard work, car washing, cooking dinner, etc - for philanthropy. I had to send our president over to this lady to tell her she had bid/bought her last auction item or I'd see her in Honor Board. She had money - it's her priorities that were the problem.
This sounds like a bad Buzzfeed* article. "I Got Kicked Out Of My Sorority Because I Bought A TKE To Do My Laundry. "

*Redundant.
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  #40  
Old 02-12-2017, 09:28 AM
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AZTheta AZTheta is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
This sounds like a bad Buzzfeed* article. "I Got Kicked Out Of My Sorority Because I Bought A TKE To Do My Laundry. "

*Redundant.
33, I think you should write it! There have been some doozies lately, and I suspect you are up to the task
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  #41  
Old 02-12-2017, 10:39 AM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Could this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSUZeta View Post
Good point, but I will say that on several occasions I saw girls who told us advisors that they could not pay their monthly dues- an unhoused chapter, so dues ran between $100-200/month- out for dinners and drinks at nice restaurants where the typical bill per person would average $40-50, and FB photos of said girls living it up at the clubs, where they easily could have dropped another $40-50.....therefore, had their priorities been different, could have paid their dues by missing one or two nights of entertainment.
Be because of this?

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Originally Posted by Sciencewoman View Post
It also seems like mandatory attendance at a variety of events, merit points, study hour tracking, and fines have played a part in discouraging enthusiasm with some. These tracking systems have increase exponentially since I was an active, and they can feel overwhelming. We have an app for tracking everything now. Again, if you're not 100% committed and feeling the love, these can be "one more thing to do" that isn't very fun.
Are the tracking systems and fines, in addition to required meetings, phanthropic events, recruitment prep, homecoming float building, Greek Sing practice, etc., becoming so overwhelming that sisters are looking for any kind of break from things mandated by the sorority?
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  #42  
Old 02-12-2017, 05:44 PM
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Sciencewoman Sciencewoman is offline
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Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 View Post
Are the tracking systems and fines, in addition to required meetings, phanthropic events, recruitment prep, homecoming float building, Greek Sing practice, etc., becoming so overwhelming that sisters are looking for any kind of break from things mandated by the sorority?
I think the fact that there's now an app to track everything is an illustration of how many obligations members need to track. And for those who are on the fence, membership starts to become less "fun" and more "obligatory."

On our campus, over programming in Greek Life is an issue, so others' mileage may vary.
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  #43  
Old 03-03-2017, 09:12 AM
*winter* *winter* is offline
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All of the obligations have to take a toll on sisters who have to work to support themselves and pay dues.
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  #44  
Old 03-03-2017, 02:17 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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A lot of this points systems and obligatory items, none of this existed back in the 90s for me. But I will say that when I was a new member, we were at the house every night for NM events and all day on the weekends. Was that ridiculous? You bet your ass it was, but I was certainly more prepared for participation after my new member period was over than women these days who do like 6 new member meetings (1 a week) and a couple random events. And for the record, I don't think you need to haze women to get them to come to things or stay. But the commitment to be a member has to be established early, or you're once they are initiated members, they're going to be like, "whoa, wait! I didn't sign up for spending 4 nights a week doing sorority".
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