alcohol

[matthewg]

Could someone explain this to me, please!?

I have been following this forum for quite a while now and as a European fraternity member I am somewhat bewildered at what I read in various posts about alcohol.

It seems to me that a lot of sororities and fraternities have very strict alcohol policies - to name a few: no drinking while wearing letters, no drinking during rush and so on - On the other hand, if you read between the lines, alcohol is a big thing.

I guess because students are away from home for the first time, ID-faking is not very difficult and legal drinking age is 21.

Don't you think the official policies are a bit hypocritical - I mean, to put alcohol into a brown bag, so you can't see the label but everybody knows: oups, alcohol inside.

Why not be honest. To drink a beer or two is ok. Where is the problem? German and other fraternities face the same problem. People think they are the home of future alcoholics.
It is definitely not true, but we will never be able to change the prejudice! So ? - we simply don't mind.

Ok, I don't expect members of officially dry fraternities/sororities to come out and say: it's all a hoax, but what is everybody's opinion on this? I am very curious to learn something about the transatlantic point of view!

Best, Matt http://www.kdstv-bodensee.de

[SilverTurtle]

matthewg-

First, I'm really against having a drinking age at all (I've seen the general attitudes towards alcohol in European countries.. I think having an age creates more problems anyways).

Second, to answer your question:

My fraternity is dry. However, it wasn't until very recently that this was actually a part of chapter by-laws. And our national is still working on a policy.

We don't have a "no drinking in your letters" rule.. we just expect that you are acting appropriately when wearing letters, etc. So, if you are out at a restaurant and have 1 or 2 drinks, and happen to be wearing a shirt w/ letters on it, that's okay. If you are having 1 or 2 drinks every hour, dancing on the table, etc. that is not okay. Some people would say this is creates a fine line, but my chapter never had any real problems with it. If we ever went to an "absolutely no drinking with letters on rule", I doubt anyone would care whatsoever.

The fraternity funds absolutely do not purchase alcohol. All of our rush and pledging activities are dry. There are a couple social events (like our spring formal) where alcohol may be made availabe (by the hotel/restaurant we're at) to members of legal age.

Sure, many of our members do drink. It just isn't a fraternity event.

I think that the reasoning behind this isn't to be hypocritical at all. Most dry organizations are seriously moving that way (at least officially.. who's to say what individuals do in their own time outside of the house). The reasoning is that in America, fraternities and sororities have a terrible image of being a bunch of drunks. (Have you seen the film Animal House? This is what most Americans think of greek life here). The organizations that are dry/ are in the process of going dry are trying to change that image. And in some cases, avoid future legal action that may be taken against them.

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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com

Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

[BCNUQT]

I think that the reason you hear so much concerning alcohol in these forums is that
drinking among college ages students is far more prevelant in American culture than in
German culture (from what I understand). In fact, it has been the subject of many television talk shows/news programs....
Typically, students that are eager to enter into the greek system here is America ask a lot about the drinking because they have a conception about the frequency that it occurs, and they're concerned. Or, you have the other hand, where they, the prospective greek, are a little TOO eager to share in what they think consumes all of our time.
We talk about it within the forums so much because (and I can't speak for anyone but
myself) we're trying to impress upon these students that we aren't about drinking. We
don't wear letters when drinking because we're managing our reputation. Mothers send
their children to us, and we're friends.

I know that Germany doesn't have the same drinking age as America does, and that they
don't have the same "problem" with under-
age consumption. It's hard to understand what goes on here when you're looking in from
another country - and I can say this because
I'm confused myself, and I live here!!!

As a member of a sorority, I never felt the pressure to drink. I don't get embarrassed
and never feel the need to explain myself to
anyone, and people accept that. My sorority
sisters, included. I can also happily say that I am not the only one who doesn't drink within our org., and I think it empowers others to say NO as well.


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Sigma Sigma Sigma
Zeta Eta

[This message has been edited by BCNUQT (edited September 21, 2000).]

[33girl]

Hi Matthewg,

I had to think of what a high school friend of mine said in a homesick moment while she was a German exchange student, re the no-drinking-age etc over there: "I want to go to a party in the woods again and be scared s@%$less of getting busted. That's entertainment!" LOL

But seriously....

Around 15 years ago, the Federal Highway Funding Act went into effect. This act basically said if a state didn't raise their drinking age to 21, they would be denied federal highway funds. (Insert "violation of states' rights" diatribe here.)

Consequently, in states where the drinking age had been 18 or 19 - you guessed it, college age - drinking a beer at 18 turned from a common and normal thing into breaking the law.

This was a very large societal change, especially on college campuses, especially on college campuses in rural/isolated areas where the only game in town was fraternity parties.

I know that the Greeks have to adhere to the law, but I find it immensely hypocritical to say "I drank at 18 but that was then and this is now, and drinking at 18 now is bad and evil." It may be the law, but sometimes the law is wrong. Giving the right to marry, drive a car, own a gun, vote and be drafted - all marks of adulthood - to an 18 year old, and denying access to alcohol - another mark of adulthood - is wrong. I don't know about you, but I'd rather see an 18 year old with a beer in his hand than with a gun in his hand.

In other words, it's not the Greek world that is hypocritical on this issue - it's U. S. society.

[BCNUQT]

Good call on that last statement, 33girl.

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Sigma Sigma Sigma
Zeta Eta

[Siobhan]

The alcohol policies are tough sometimes, especially being a Canadian chapter. Canada's views on drinking run along the same lines as many Europeans, it's just part of our culture. And with lower drinking ages I think there is a less likely tendancy to go out and get smashed every weekend. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is the attitude every American takes about drinking. I just think Canadian and Europeans in general just don't make a huge deal of it. A lot of underage drinking goes on up here, but there isn't a huge outcry over it. I am very glad that my international (DPhiE) is on one the lowest alcohol policy levels. Because in many cases these NPC alcohol policies seem to be infringing on our provincial and federal rights.

[matthewg]

Hi everyone,
thanks for your replies - it clears up some things. You are probably right - the whole thing starts with the drinking age and with, as Siobhan says, "making a deal out of it".
I think Britain is facing a similar thing with their 11pm curfew - everybody want's to get bombed before that.....:-(
It is as if a supernatural force tell's them: if you don't drink as much as you can when you get an opportunity then you are going to miss something.
Unfortunately, I don't know for sure what to do against that.

[SoCalGirl]

Hi All!

Speaking of "(Insert "violation of states' rights" diatribe here.)"

I'd love to get some opinions on this, especially from Matthew and all the Canandians on the board.

I live in San Diego, which is only a 20min drive to the Mexican border and a 5 min taxi ride to Revolucion Ave. in Tijuana.

Basically what happens is all the 18+ (and some as young as 13) go to TJ and get bombed out of their mind because the drinking age is 18 in Mexico. They all then come back across the border barely able to walk. Many can't even crawl.

So then the SDPD is stuck with all of these underage drunks who also drunk drive.

The club owners (a surprising number of which are Americans) contribute to all this by plastering college AND HIGH SCHOOL campuses with flyers. Most of the bars are all you can drink. And on college night the cover is only THREE DOLLARS for girls and eight for guys!

So what does the San Diego City Council do to deal with all this? They reinforce police presence at the border. Arrest all the drunks as they come across and call the parents. AND HERE COMES THE DOOZY!

TRIES TO FORCE MEXICO TO UP THEIR DRINKING AGE!!!!

And the city doesn't understand why Mexico isn't going for this idea! Come On!

How would Cananda react to this? Should we make European countries conform to us too?


I admit that having the lower drinking age so close makes it really hard to convince our members that they shouldn't be drinking at their age. But that's our problem. Not Mexico's!

Sorry, I had to rant.

[matthewg]

Hi SoCalGirl,
well, my idea of how to deal with this specific problem would be: get the parents to educate their children to become more responsible.

To give an example: when I was, say, 10 or twelve, I was first allowed to try beer and cigarettes at home - I hated it! It tasted awful at that time so I never became a smoker (I now have a cigar once in a while) and never a big drinker. Later, I discovered that beer or wine, once in a while, can be very tasteful and enjoyable.

My pont is: because of the opportunity and freedom at home, I didn't have to go out and experience nicotine and alcohol under severe external pressure (like from class-mates: you are so uncool if you don't smoke, drink whatsoever) and that helped me develop the self-esteem to say "no".....

So maybe the parents should be educated first.... maybe...