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  #16  
Old 07-03-2011, 01:02 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Originally Posted by agzg View Post
There are a lot of grad schools that don't require the GRE or portfolios or auditions. Mine didn't, but we're top 10 in the field.
I know that there are a lot, and some of them might be excellent programs, but they are by far the exception and not the rule (ie, top-tier programs that don't require the GRE, auditions, or portfolios). Picking a program because it doesn't require the GRE, regardless of the impact it may have on your career, isn't a brilliant move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl
Please go to the Frontline website and watch their latest report about how Kaplan and other for-profit universities are scamming veterans out of their GI Bill money.
There's so much scamming going on with some of those for-profit universities. There are a lot of stories about schools fudging FAFSAs to increase Pell Grant amounts, which is money in the bank to them. It's just a hot mess. They often hide behind "accreditation," which doesn't really mean that much since there are so many accrediting bodies.

Last edited by Munchkin03; 07-03-2011 at 02:31 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-03-2011, 01:52 PM
littleowl33 littleowl33 is offline
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This doesn't really apply for a Higher Ed degree, but for others considering online, for-profit education - please be very sure to check that the degree or credential will do what it's supposed to do. There have been horror stories in the Chronicle about students who received credentials (I think in nutrition or dietetics) that the recruiter assured them would satisfy the state requirements, but after graduating they found that they weren't allowed to take the state's qualifying exam because their program wasn't recognized. They were stuck with an essentially useless credential.

Also be aware that many graduate schools may not recognize an online degree from a for-profit institution if you choose to go on to further education, like a doctorate. There's debate over whether this is non-profit snobbery or legitimate concern about the quality of the degree, but either way, it can be a serious disadvantage.

The Chronicle has also reported that while for-profit online programs (particularly at the undergraduate level) are not as difficult to start (what with constant rolling admissions and the ease of attending "in your PJs"), they are very difficult for many students to finish. Their graduation rates are pretty poor. However this could be correlation, not causation, since many students chose online coursework because they already have very busy lives that make attending a traditional program difficult.

Finally (and this somewhat ties into my first paragraph), do plenty of research on the program outside of what the recruiters will tell you. Non-profit universities employ admissions counselors, and a good one will tell you up front if their program is not a good fit for you. For-profit universities employ admissions recruiters, and oftentimes they will tell you whatever you want to hear to get you through the door. It's sales, not counseling.

I'm not saying for-profits cannot run programs well or that students cannot be successful with them. I'm just encouraging those considering these programs to be very cautious consumers.
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  #18  
Old 07-03-2011, 01:58 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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^^^^This is so true, particularly if you're going into the education or other fields requiring state licensing (eg. counseling and such.)

Some states will not accept degrees for licensure requirements if they're from Kaplan/Phoenix/etc. Onine courses via actual schools apply (ex: online coursework from KSU/Case/etc), though.



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  #19  
Old 07-03-2011, 02:55 PM
preciousjeni preciousjeni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
I'm getting to the point in my career where I'm starting to review resumes with HR, and I can't ever imagine preferring someone with an online-only degree (be it BS or MS) over someone who actually, you know, went to class.
Are you speaking specifically about for-profit schools? The degree you get at a traditional, nonprofit school is usually identical to the degree one would get if they took all on-the-ground courses.

My "online" program is also offered in blended and on-the-ground only programs. All three diplomas are the same. There would be no way for an employer to know the difference if you didn't tell them.
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  #20  
Old 07-03-2011, 03:06 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Originally Posted by preciousjeni View Post
Are you speaking specifically about for-profit schools? The degree you get at a traditional, nonprofit school is usually identical to the degree one would get if they took all on-the-ground courses.

My "online" program is also offered in blended and on-the-ground only programs. All three diplomas are the same. There would be no way for an employer to know the difference if you didn't tell them.
I am specifically speaking about for-profit schools; I thought I made that distinction above but maybe I forgot to do so. Many highly regarded institutions offer degrees that have online components and those seem to be pretty legitimate.

If an employer were to look at a transcript, would the online classes be noted as such?
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  #21  
Old 07-03-2011, 03:14 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
If an employer were to look at a transcript, would the online classes be noted as such?
In grad school, I took 2 or 3 summer courses that were online and my transcript doesn't note that.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2011, 03:23 PM
preciousjeni preciousjeni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
If an employer were to look at a transcript, would the online classes be noted as such?
Nope. There's no way to tell by looking at the transcript/diploma/etc.
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  #23  
Old 07-03-2011, 05:47 PM
agzg agzg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
There's so much scamming going on with some of those for-profit universities. There are a lot of stories about schools fudging FAFSAs to increase Pell Grant amounts, which is money in the bank to them. It's just a hot mess. They often hide behind "accreditation," which doesn't really mean that much since there are so many accrediting bodies.
Kaplan University and University of Phoenix both have regional institutional accreditation. There are only six of them, broken up by geographic area, and are the same six that accredit all public four-plus-year universities as well as most community colleges. When you're talking institutional accreditation, it's the best you can get. And they work hard to maintain that accreditation. I think where you're thinking there are "so many" would be national accrediting bodies, which are typically for two-year and technical/vocational schools. If you're getting a mechanics certificate or certified nurses aide, you're probably at a school that's nationally accredited (if it's a decent school - others aren't accredited at all and you really need to watch out for that).

If you're talking programmatic accreditation, that varies. Not all programs are have a programmatic accreditor, and some have many different ones that vary in terms of the rigorous nature of the program. For example, the Commission on Dental Accreditation (CODA) for all Dental programs (meaning Dental Assistant through DMD) is A. Required for graduates in many states for licensure and entry-level positions and B. a very rigorous accreditation process, with lots of work to maintain that accreditation. Typically, a Dental Assistant graduate from a for-Profit college versus a community college will have the same skillset and be equally prepared for a career as a dental assistant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by littleowl33 View Post
The Chronicle has also reported that while for-profit online programs (particularly at the undergraduate level) are not as difficult to start (what with constant rolling admissions and the ease of attending "in your PJs"), they are very difficult for many students to finish. Their graduation rates are pretty poor. However this could be correlation, not causation, since many students chose online coursework because they already have very busy lives that make attending a traditional program difficult.
It's correlation, more than likely.

A while ago there was a study reported by the Department of Education that listed 7 risk factors for students who drop out:

1. Being an independent student (students who receive no financial support from their parents.
2. Working full time.
3. Having dependents.
4. Single parents.
5. Delaying entrance to college after high school.
6. Not having a traditional HS diploma (having a GED, "modified" diploma, or no diploma at all).
7. Attending college part time.

The overwhelming majority of the student population at a Kaplan or a Phoenix hit 4 of the risk factors on average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
^^^^This is so true, particularly if you're going into the education or other fields requiring state licensing (eg. counseling and such.)

Some states will not accept degrees for licensure requirements if they're from Kaplan/Phoenix/etc. Onine courses via actual schools apply (ex: online coursework from KSU/Case/etc), though.
This really widely varies by state. Folks hoping to go to schools like Kaplan or Phoenix should do additional research on their own into state licensure requirements and realize that the schools are more than likely based and accredited in a state where they don't live. Phoenix is Arizona while Kapan is Iowa.

Just like there's a lot of misinformation one way in favor of for-Profit schools, there's a lot of misinformation out there against them, as well. There have been a number of folks who even testified to Congress that have made misleading statements, particularly the guy who's a shortseller and stood to gain a lot by a rapidly decreasing stock price (I think he was the first to testify). There have also been a lot of misleading articles in the press.

All good stories and bad stories should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Last edited by agzg; 07-03-2011 at 05:52 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-04-2011, 06:56 PM
Low C Sharp Low C Sharp is offline
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My worst fear is that I end up with a Kaplan degree and then go for an interview at a university and they say something to the effect of "you got your degree from where? We'll call you. Have a good day."
I think you won't get the interview call in the first place. This is not a field where an online, for-profit education will advance your career.
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  #25  
Old 07-05-2011, 04:21 PM
AlwaysSAI AlwaysSAI is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
This is me right here.

As much of an introvert as I am, I am SO not an online class person.

I'm a very conventional learner and I learn best through someone discussing the subject with me/taking notes about it/listen to other people discuss it. I'm also that person who likes clear expectations on assignments.

I don't learn from people saying "read x and take a 10 question quiz on x."

I also have the memory capacity of a goldfish. Going to class everyday and the routine of it helps me remember when things are due. In my online classes (a couple of my courses were online only) I was that person who had homework due at midnight and didn't realize it until 10.
My mom keeps steering me towards an online program for graduate school (because many state schools are going that way) but I just can't get her to understand that it's just not for me. I just......need to be able to look a professor in the face if I need help.
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  #26  
Old 07-05-2011, 09:02 PM
HeavenslilAngel HeavenslilAngel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusteau View Post
Do you have any contacts from your undergraduate program (Greek advisor, people in the campus life office, etc.) that you're still in touch with? They are a great resource for finding a good program, and you wll want to reach out to them!
I know no one at the state school I am attempting to get accepted into. However, there are non-degree classes that I can take that could potentially transfer into the program. Additionally, there are certificate programs (for like Leadership and such) that I could do and make friends/mentors/other contacts. Not sure, but if I do either of those two options (non-degree classes or certificates), I'm sure that can only help me either get in and/or bridge the "not knowing a soul at the university" gap.

Thank you all so much for your advice! So much to consider....but then again this is a big change.
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  #27  
Old 07-05-2011, 10:30 PM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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I strongly advise against it.
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  #28  
Old 07-05-2011, 10:35 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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If there's anyplace that'll be biased against for-profit schools, it's the traditional schools which you're wanting to work for. It only takes a tad of common sense to understand that this Kaplan idea probably isn't your best moment.

--and besides that, you'll be saddling yourself with ridiculous student loans.
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  #29  
Old 07-06-2011, 09:42 AM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
If there's anyplace that'll be biased against for-profit schools, it's the traditional schools which you're wanting to work for. It only takes a tad of common sense to understand that this Kaplan idea probably isn't your best moment.

--and besides that, you'll be saddling yourself with ridiculous student loans.
I'm just kind of like, why? It seems like most states have at least one really good Higher Ed/Student Affairs graduate program (if not, there's the Academic Common Market), and wouldn't in-state tuition be less than Dotcom University?
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  #30  
Old 07-06-2011, 09:46 AM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
I'm just kind of like, why? It seems like most states have at least one really good Higher Ed/Student Affairs graduate program (if not, there's the Academic Common Market), and wouldn't in-state tuition be less than Dotcom University?
I believe so.

Also, if you have to carefully weigh the pros and cons to the point where you will have to explain away the cons and justify why you chose that dotcom, DON'T DO IT.

If you're able to make the pros outweigh the cons, which will only happen in certain fields, go for it. But there will always be dotcom universities that I absolutely advise against regardless of anything else--I think there was a thread about that.
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