Does your chapter haze?

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Again, I don't see what you're saying you should be allowed to do that you're prohibited from doing.

NM Ed. for one. That would be seperating the actives from the pledges.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by sphinxbeauty

Subtle Hazing - . . . scavenger hunts, . . . getting signatures . . . .

Originally Posted by sphinxbeauty

They honestly see EVERYTHING as hazing, whether you're trying to or not. You say that nothing (besides the scavenger hunt) you did during your new member period was hazing, but if you were called a "pledge" by ANY means, HAZING!

I'm not trying to argue what-so-ever. I'm trying to say that no matter how your new members go through the process, or they learn your history, now a days everything is under scrutiny to be considered hazing.

My opinions only:

I understand (and support) the crack-down on hazing taking place among many GLOs. But some folks have just gone plain crazy with what they consider hazing. It is just plain stupid to say that calling someone a "pledge" is hazing. Sure, many GLOs (mine included) have moved away from the term because of the connotation it carries with some people, but honestly. No one is hazed merely by being called a "pledge."

And scavenger hunts? Give me a break! Getting signatures of all the actives? One the best things I did as a probationary member -- it gave me a chance to interact with each brother. We signed hats, and I've kept mine as a valued momento. Sure, getting signatures, like anything else, can be abused if an active requires something inappropriate before giving a signature, but in that case its the specific requirement, not getting the signature itself, that's hazing.

I simply do not buy the position that anything that treats NMs/pledges/whatever they are called differently from active members is hazing. I know from previous conversations that different groups have different views about how much NMs/pledges should be treated like actives, but that doesn't mean that those groups that maintain there is a difference are hazing on that basis.

No reasonable definition of hazing would include the use of the word "pledge" or things like scavanger hunts, per se. Hazing is any activity that humiliates, degrades or risks emotional and/or physical harm, not just that calls attention to the fact that some people are not full members yet.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And scavenger hunts?

Scavenger hunts at my university included time limits (so that the girls/boys would either be forced to drive recklessly or run ridiculous lengths to complete in time), items hidden in other GLO houses (where the other GLO would haze the pledges before they gave them the next clue), and other dangerous activities - which is why they were specifically banned. As was "stringing for bigs" when one of the Delta Upsilons proceeded to string out the window and into the basketball hoop - the pledge was apparently caught by university officials sitting on top of the basketball hoop unwinding string.

[JonInKC]

Before long you won't even be able to make a pledge down a fifth of whiskey and then swim across the lake in the middle of winter.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hell in a handbasket.

[33girl]

The thing with scavenger hunts is, it would be REALLY easy to make them safe and hazing free. Just hide all the items in the house or another enclosed area and let the pledges know everything is there. You do otherwise, your butt is in a sling. The thing is, people are too lazy to make rules and would rather just ban.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by sphinxbeauty

At my school, almost anything is considered hazing. There is a meeting that all new members and their educators are required to attend where the Greek Life staff shows a power point regarding the different levels of hazing: Subtle, Harassment, and Violent.

Subtle Hazing - silence periods, scavenger hunts, house duties, carrying a pledge book, getting signatures, threats, and deprivation of privleges.

Harassment Hazing - verbal abuse, questioning under pressure, requiring new members to wear rediculous costumes, skit nights.

Violent Hazing - forced alcohol consumption, physical violence, and intense emotional ridicule.

My school also informs you that if you take part in any sort of hazing (whether you're an initiated member or new member) you can be punished.

There have been many accusations of hazing among the greek community at my school, but just remember that if you heard it from someone who wasn't there, it's just a rumor. Don't believe everything you hear.

http://blog.nj.com/timesupdates/2007/04/rider_freshman_died_of_alcohol.html
^This just happened to a nearby school, read it and let me know what you think.

Bullshit.

Originally Posted by Yami_Cassie

My school also lists scavenger hunts as hazing.. although I personally don't see it as that. In addition to the very specific rules, I just try to keep in mind that everything pledges do, no matter how little a task they need to be comfortable with and comfortable with the sorority enough to say no at any time.

(For example) If we told pledges to write an essay about why they want to join and one says she really feels uncomfortable/degraded by doing so, I would not let her do it.

Bullshit.

Originally Posted by DPUDChi

Really hard to say yes or no to this one. The difference between DePauw's hazing guidlines and FIPG is rediculous. According to one of my profs (a DePauw alum and Lambda Chi Alpha), an ice cream social can technically be considered hazing at DePauw. I think FIPG guidelines are very reasonable and appropriate. My chapter does NOT haze according to FIPG. But any little thing can be hazing at DePauw.

Bullshit.

Originally Posted by poeticace

exactly.

This question is too broad anyway, because every school/org/region defines hazing as something different. One person may consider beating the shit out of the pledges as hazing, while another person may consider something as simple as "leaving the room while the sorority members vote" as hazing. And, according to the laws in most states, those laws are pretty much limited to the physical (i.e. beating the pledges), yet clearly, it's been shown that there's WAY more to hazing than just that.

Bullshit.

Originally Posted by dreamofpeace

My sorority "doesn't haze"--which is to say that we don't actually physically do anything to our pledges, and no one is required to drink themselves into a stupor (actually, our pledging is dry). But the mind games are definately emotionally/psychologically traumatic, if you ask me. The thing is though, I really do feel like everything I went through was worth it and served a purpose. My pledge sister described it well. She said, "It's the most worthwhile thing I've ever done that I would never do again."

Bullshit.

Originally Posted by fantASTic

No, we don't haze at all. Like other sorority women have mentioned, we are basically showered with gifts and attention. However, we do go through a New Member Education period in which we learn things about the sorority. But it's a friendly thing, nothing that could be considered hazing.

We don't make new members leave the room during voting, but one thing we do that's ridiculous is that we are required by law to tell them what happens before they go to a ritual if they want to know. So, if someone says, "I want to know what happens during big/little exchange," we have to tell them or it's hazing.

I think it's silly. I wish we were hazed [not horribly, of course] because I think it helps to build pledge class unity and also to feel more like an initiated member.

Annnnd BULLLLSHIT!!!!! I just read most of this thread and some of these anti-hazing rules are out of control.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

NM Ed. for one. That would be seperating the actives from the pledges.

I can't believe the school marks that as hazing. That's what I'm saying. Every example she's given includes something that is not allowed. She hasn't said anything suggesting they don't have NM education or that the school requires NMs to attend ritual or something like that.

She seems more upset that the Subtle hazing is prohibited as well as the word "pledge."

I agree that hazing rules have gone to far, but Greeks in general have shown they can't be trusted to make their own rules because people have been injured and killed by hazing. So even the innocent ones are getting punished for it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I agree that hazing rules have gone to far, but Greeks in general have shown they can't be trusted to make their own rules because people have been injured and killed by hazing. So even the innocent ones are getting punished for it.

You just contradicted yourself.

[Glitter650]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The thing with scavenger hunts is, it would be REALLY easy to make them safe and hazing free. The thing is, people are too lazy to make rules and would rather just ban.

EXACTLY.... a lot of the things that we are ridiculous for being banned are only banned because of a slippery slope... a scavenger can be totally free of anything dangerous, demeaning, or anything that would cause someone to be uncomfortable. The thing is it easily can go down hill to go take the Pike's composite, and once they get there, the Pike's know they're coming and make them take shots before they can have it, or are waiting with water balloons to pelt them from the window when they arrive... or any number of crazy things I think we all could agree would NOT be kosher. but rather than write spedific rules about how to perform them with out hazing.. they just ban them.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

You just contradicted yourself.

I don't think I did.
I understand why the rules have been put in place.

That doesn't mean I agree with them being as broad as they are.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I don't think I did.
I understand why the rules have been put in place.

That doesn't mean I agree with them being as broad as they are.

You said "Greeks in general" can't be trusted.

Then you said "the innocent ones" get punished.

That = contradiction.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

You said "Greeks in general" can't be trusted.

Then you said "the innocent ones" get punished.

That = contradiction.

Ah, no I didnt' really mean it like that.

Various chapters of different organizations have shown themselves to be untrustworthy. The school, state, HQ, etc. has two options, punish chapters for offenses already committed and/or put preventative measures into place. Most do both.

These organizations have basically decided that "as a whole" Greeks cannot be trusted to self-police. That doesn't mean that individually Greeks are untrustworthy or that individual chapters are necessarily untrustworthy. The vast majority are in fact quite capable of running their pledging program without killing, injuring, or psychologically harming their pledges.

But one pledge who dies from over drinking when he was urged on by his fraternity brothers means that the entire system is, effectively, grounded because we too wear Greek letters.

[Redtony]

When I was in H.S. and college frats still kinda ruled. We didn't, however, consider a voluntary paddling to be hazing. The paddlings were a long tradition, and though freshman were paddled frequently, so were a lot of the upperclassmen, too. These were the toughest punishment paddlings imaginable, administered by two alumni who were very, very, strict. As a senior, I took one every other week, with some strong encouragement from my gf. Quite honestly, the discipline the paddlings provided was good for me.

Tony

[SLGamma]

well everything is considered hazing now days, you cant even tell somebody to wear a shirt on a certain day bc thats hazing, and fun scavenger hunts, and being called pledge instead of new member or somehting... its insane now!

[sdsuchelle]

Originally Posted by Redtony

When I was in H.S. and college frats still kinda ruled. We didn't, however, consider a voluntary paddling to be hazing. The paddlings were a long tradition, and though freshman were paddled frequently, so were a lot of the upperclassmen, too. These were the toughest punishment paddlings imaginable, administered by two alumni who were very, very, strict. As a senior, I took one every other week, with some strong encouragement from my gf. Quite honestly, the discipline the paddlings provided was good for me.

Tony

Whoa.

I find the whole idea of paddling to be EXTREMELY weird, like f'ed-up-in-the-head weird. I keep picturing people wearing black latex in dungeons.