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  #16  
Old 09-09-2000, 05:27 PM
DoggyStyle82 DoggyStyle82 is offline
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XGIRL: that wasn't my point. She may be a "hero", but I think that there is more to it. BTW, please don't compare what this young lady did to Rosa Parks. The stakes were somewhat higher.
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2000, 08:15 PM
cash78mere cash78mere is offline
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DoggyStyle- What you wrote is EXACTLY what I thought when I read it. It seems kinda strange that a sorority that is so "diverse" would have these problems. Obviously, something is being hidden in this story. All the cards are not on the table or are not being made public.

What makes me irritated reading a story like this are posts that I've read on this board about white members joining BGLOs. Many (NOT all) members said they would outright question a white girl's intentions simply because of her skin color. Some even said that they would vote against her without even meeting her. There is something wrong with this picture. In my mind, it is EXACTLY the same thing as what happened with AGD, but with the races reversed.

Although I don't necessarily agree with what this outraged sister did, I think it is good that she took a stand. I think she made some poor decisions, but at least she did something. What is ridiculous is that the entire chapter was punished because of the actions of a few people.

I wouldn't put this girl in the same position as Rosa Parks. That's like comparing apples to oranges. This girl ran away from her problems by transferring schools. All she accomplished was getting her sorority in trouble and then running away from the consequences that followed. To me that is cowardly.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a sorority member asking "Why does she want to go through white rush". If it is an uncommon occurance people might be curious. At my school, we all wondered about one girl who went through NPC rush. We didn't care that she was rushing, and actually, all of the sororities seemed to want her because she was a very sweet and popular girl, but we still wondered. There are 2 strong NPHC orgs. on our campus and she would have been the only black person in a NPC sorority. (We do have many minority sisters, but they are Indian and Asian.) There was NOTHING wrong with us wondering since it was the first we had heard of it happening. (she wound up dropping out of rush and didn't wind up joining any organization in case you were wondering...)

Well to sum everything up....You cannot be able to discriminate in one group and then when the tables are turned go into an uproar. Discrimination is wrong, period. It shouldn't be okay on a case by case basis. It shouldn't be acceptable AT ALL.

Peace.

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  #18  
Old 09-09-2000, 11:08 PM
SoCalGirl SoCalGirl is offline
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The UGA AGD website:
http://www.uga.edu/alphagam/


DoggyStyle82: "She mentioned that she was attracted to this org because of its diversity. I infer that that means they have (had) non-white members."

If you check out the website it seems that the chapter is diverse in the "Hey, they're not all blonde and beautiful!" sense. At some schools having brunettes and redheads makes you a diverse chapter.

"She lived in this house for a whole year. She didn't hear or notice any racism or bigoted remarks before now?"

If she joined in Fall 99, at most she only lived in the house during Spring semester. It's also possible that she didn't live there at all last year. Depends how full the house was. I think it's concievable that in five months she didn't hear or notice anything. When you're living with that many girls it can be easy to miss things.


"She states that most of the chapter gave the Black girl high marks, so the whole chapter can't be racist."

She stated that there was a mix of scores. If the woman had low enough marks the first night to be discussed then that means most of the girls that met her gave low scores. After discussing the black woman, most of the chapter would had to have voted to drop her. Does this mean that most of the chapter is racist? No. But it means that enough of them decided to trust the opinions of their racist and prejudiced sisters. Also, one of them could have pulled the classic "I'll deactivate if that girl joins!" That'll get you what you want every time.

"Isn't the sister better off not becoming an "affirmative action" member who will receive the cold shoulder once she is a member? Wouldn't she be better off rushing an inclusive sorority. They must have made her feel comfortable if she decided to rush that particular one."

Yes, she's better off not becoming an "affirmative action" member. Perhaps that's why so many of the members allowed the racist and prejudiced ones have their way?

The black woman was going through NPC Formal Rush. She HAD to go to all 18 houses on the first night. For all we know she never wanted to even visit AGD. But if she didn't, she could have been dismissed from rush all together. She had made the decision to go through this rush, she must have felt that she'd be welcomed at at least one of the chapters.

There could be something else going on that we don't know about. But for now, I believe that the AGD member made the right choice.
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2000, 02:09 PM
mgdzkm433 mgdzkm433 is offline
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Diversity doesn't always mean color. My sorority was compiled of all white females, but we were all very diverse in our own respect. Our backgrounds were different, our style, personality, lifestyle. Just because they were all white doesn't mean that they were all the same. That to me seems to be lumping all people together 'all white people are the same' which we all know isn't true.

How could she have not heard other racisms before now? Easily. I've been best friends with the same girls now for 14 years, I still can find out things about them that I never knew. Women find out things about their husbands (and vise versa) that they never knew years down the road, this is just another one of those examples.

I don't think she was a coward for leaving the school. She was smart--legally. If she had stayed, of course she would be uncomfortable living in the house. She had gone before her sisters and asked to be excused from her housing contract, and she was denied. She was treated badly by the existing sisters in the house, why would you want to live with these people? If she moved out anyway, she risks being sued by the sorority for breaking contract. On campus, she might have some serious problems with slander and pranks (childish stuff), threats, etc. I personally wouldn't want to go through that.

I personally doubt that this young lady had an ulterier motive. Look at what she gave up and what she took in return, her misfortune from this incident is much much higher than the perks.

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  #20  
Old 09-10-2000, 05:05 PM
DoggyStyle82 DoggyStyle82 is offline
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SoCalGirl and MGDZKM433: Forgive me, although I attended a majority white college, I may be a little rusty on the rush and housing situation. I will defer to your knowledge. I was speaking from a BLGO perspective and her actions were probably in accordance with your greek cultural norms. I assumed diversity meant either ethnic or racial. I was unaware that some white greeks still separate themselves by hair and eye color. This is why dialog and forums such as these are useful. My BLGO experience is 180 degrees fron an NPC situation. I can't imagine being a brother of someone for a year and not knowing their feelings on membership. I cannot imagine not handling a situation like this in-house. I cannot imagine dropping a dime and then running. She may have exposed the racism in her chapter, and if that is the case, I applaud her for that. Thanks for your perspectives and the enlightenment.
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  #21  
Old 09-10-2000, 11:29 PM
SoCalGirl SoCalGirl is offline
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Hey DoggyStyle!

No need for fogiveness. You didn't do anything wrong!

We all make judgements based on our own experiences. I concluded from your statements that you were comparing the rush to NPHC style intake. That's why I explained all that stuff.

We ALL learn SO much about each others GLOs on these boards! It would be a lot less interesting around here if we all always agreed on things.

BTW, the member did try to handle the situation in house by taking it to the Executive Council and advisors. This would have involved a formal meeting of some chapter advisors and all of the officers. What was said in that meeting and the Council's final decision is what triggered her departure from school. She could have (even may have) contacted other advisors, regional &/or National officers.

Personally, I MIGHT have exhausted ALL of my options with National's before dragging the school into it. Since I've never faced a similar situation, I can't say for sure.

I don't think the member spontaneously decided to write that letter. Hopefully, she thought long and hard about its consequences.
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  #22  
Old 09-11-2000, 12:23 AM
tcsparky tcsparky is offline
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ZetaAce,
Well said. You showed maturity of thought, ad a LOT of common sense (which doesn't seem to be all that common) in your reply. Those are the same kinds of things I was thinking. I have known several people at UGA, some of them Greeks. I don't believe that the attitude of those few prejudiced sisters is pervasive in the UGA Greek system.
As to why this young lady Rushed, an earlier response said she may have grown up with a lot of white friends, and felt comfortable in white orgs. I agree that could have been the case. Most of my black friends joined their BGLO orgs for the bond of cultural sisterhood they already had with the ladies in those particular orgs, not from a sense of wanting to be in a NON-WHITE org.
Just my thoughts.
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  #23  
Old 09-11-2000, 12:25 AM
tcsparky tcsparky is offline
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I'm sorry- my reply was intended in response to SoCalgirl!!!
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  #24  
Old 09-11-2000, 09:50 AM
PenguinTrax PenguinTrax is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
I assumed diversity meant either ethnic or racial. I was unaware that some white greeks still separate themselves by hair and eye color.
Greeks, whether white, black, purple or striped, do not separate themselves based on hair and eye color. It's like you said all AKA's have light skin and if you didn't have light skin, you couldn't get in. A load of rubbish.

Diversity is what you make it to be - skin color, religion, upbringing, sexual preference, or country of origin.

For me, a Jewish member of a Christian-founded fraternity, diversity is more than skin color, although we show plenty of that, too. Below are selected comments on the UGA situation from an African-American member of an NPC fraternity:

Wow! I just couln't believe what I read. I am SO GLAD we're not like that. For those of you who are new to the list, I attend school in <removed> and as an African-American student, I can tell everyone that racism is very prominent not too far away cities from my university, but I never had any problem going to a fraternity event nor has my house had a problem from doing philanthropies, to socials, etc.

I did try to "rush" a historically African-American Sorority <snip> The girls were into hazing(they really didn't like me and why pay money to an organization that you're not valued as a member <snip> My African-American friends ask me what made me rush <removed> and I'll just tell them about my experience between the two. I am not joking when I say I just did not feel welcome and valued into the (African-American) organization and I lost $150 (I never regretted that decision[to leave]!!)

About 3 semesters later, I rushed <removed> and the experience is just a world's
difference!! NO HAZING for one, and everyone at my chapter was excited that I joined and was active. Yes, there is a considerable cost
difference, but the additional money that I spend is well worth it. I have always felt welcome at the house and that alone I can't place a price tag on it. I don't feel that our greek system has a problem with racism.
The image is misleading because the number of African-American students that attend are just a small percentage and when you consider the fact that National Pan-Hellenic sororities and fraternities are competiting
for the same people, Panhellenic and IFC do have a modest representation of members of other ethnic backgrounds.

A few things that I think is holding African-American students back from joining is the image of segregation, the cost, stereotypes(which fuels the image of segregation). I'm not promoting the putdown of other houses(I
know that everyone out there has heard such and such house are like that),
but when I hear my African-American friends talk about the greek system, they talk about how all they see is blond hair, blue eyes, size zero snobby girls that drive really expensive cars, different color but same
style shirt, black pants, same hair style....etc. etc... now <removed> is NOT
like that(I have sisters that don't own a car and work 2 jobs to pay for
membership and school),but we as an
entire system need to go out and make ourselves more known on campus and not just be known as the snobby rich folks in the big
houses on the west part of campus.


I went to school in the midwest during the early and mid-80's. My chapter pledged a number of non-white members during this time and a number of non-traditional women as well. The amount of diversity in our chapter then, and now, set a standard on our campus.

I'll say it again. The sister that left UGA because of her principles is to be commended and I hope the Alpha Gam Chapter is disciplined severely for this lapse in judgement and ethics.

Barbara
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  #25  
Old 09-12-2000, 01:09 AM
theXgirl theXgirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
XGIRL: that wasn't my point. She may be a "hero", but I think that there is more to it. BTW, please don't compare what this young lady did to Rosa Parks. The stakes were somewhat higher.
DoggyStyle82,

My only comparison between the two women is that they both stood up for what they felt was right.

X Girl

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  #26  
Old 09-12-2000, 01:21 PM
mgdzkm433 mgdzkm433 is offline
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I agree that sororities should be 'selective' but not selective based on something like ethnic background. If we are selective, it should be on things that apply to the sorority. The fact this young lady was black doesn't make any difference when it comes to fulfilling goals, ideals, philanthropy, etc etc. I also believe it should be the other way around as well. We should be selective based on intent, initiatiave, goals, GPA, things that affect and can benifit the sorority.
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  #27  
Old 09-12-2000, 02:34 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Hi--I have thought long and hard about what I wanted to say here. You see, my husband and I have 9 daughters--4 by birth and 5 nonwhite ones by adoption. I hope they will all pledge someday (so far only the oldest is in college and she has).

Yet I worry about what will happen to my other girls in rush because as a college prof and former Greek advisor, I've seen discrimination from black and white groups. I've heard white groups discuss how to cut a black girl without causing a problem and I've heard black groups laugh about a white girl in NPHC rush and call her a "whigger" (around here, a white who wants to be black).

I firmly believe that the last post from mgdzkm is right--when we choose (some non-Greeks would call it 'discriminate'), we must choose our members on the basis of good grades, initiative, school involvement, etc., and cut those people who are cheap, mean, you name it, based on that and not on their race. However, I don't like the idea of university personnel or other groups trying to deny us the right to select our members...you can probably remember, as I can, some awful people who came through rush whom you definitely did not want to wear your pin. I think the Supreme Court affirmed the right of private groups to choose their members with the recent decision about the Boy Scouts and gays--and God willing, we will all make wise and kind choices when we make our decisions in rush.
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  #28  
Old 09-13-2000, 12:12 AM
12dn94dst 12dn94dst is offline
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The following comments are from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution's "The Vent Online" section...I found some rather humorous (and sarcastic)...others make you wonder. You can read more here: http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/xsite/vent/ I apologize for the length.

"I am left saddened and sickened by the recent events at the UGA sorority. Kudos to the student who had the courage and the decency to come forward.

"Come on people, fraternities and sororities are selective. Members should be able to choose who they want as their housemates and friends. After all, how many WHITE girls have you seen in Alpha Kappa Alpha?

"When was the choice process for sororities and fraternities ever fair? They have always discriminated on the basis of anything that you can think of.

"Yes, UGA sororities discriminate. They don't even admit brunettes.

"To my sister alpha gams Keep it up! We have a right to discriminate: especially at the prices it costs for us to join

"All of this hue and cry about AGD is both disingenuous and naive. If you can't discriminate in your own sorority, why have one?

"My gosh, a racial snub at a sorority, I am SOOO shocked.

"Dear Alpha Gamma Delta, now you know it was because she wasn't wearing Prada shoes. Haven't we taught you anything, my darlins'?

"Right on!! Let's tear down those age old barriers that allow sororities to select their members. This ole boy is just dying to get in.

"To the UGA student that withdrew rather than continue to be a part of a racist organization: You are to be commended for standing firm in your belief. If we all had the courage to fight for what is right rather than "go along" with what is popular, this would be a better world.

"Sorority guilty of snubbing someone! That's what sororities are all about

"To the Alpha Gamma Delta member who stood up at great personal cost: Thank you! She proved that there IS a conspiracy of silence regarding racial issues, and that there are those who are willing to stand against it.

"Alison Davis, the former Alpha Gamma Delta, is my hero. It takes guts for a person in the majority to stand up for the minority. If more people did that, this world would be a better place.

"I think we should have the Congressional Black Caucus investigate those racist sororities. Wait a minute ...

"There are whites and blacks in my predominantly black fraternity and we all crossed the burning sands with pride not pressure from the outside world.

"It's sad to think that it has come to this. Why doesn't the University just create its own clubs and throw everyone into them at random when they enroll at UGA? Whats the point of rush if you accept EVERYONE?

"UGA sororities discriminate against the non-white, the non-rich, the non-snobby, and the non-Junior League descended -- is this really a surprise to anyone?

"On the AGD sorority issue at UGA, it is much more commendable to defend the MAJORITY decision to reject an applicant. In this fragile democracy in which we live the majority still rules.

"It's amazing to me how the top brass claims to be unaware of the discrimination practices of these social clubs. All Frats and Sororities (black and white) should be investigated by an independent outside authority.

"From one who was a member of an all-white southern fraternity years ago, and who has never seen any of the "brothers" since, BRAVO to the brave UGA sorority girl who stood up for what she believes in.

"I never found the need to belong to an elitist group that didn't want me. That black gal is better off not belonging to it, too.

"If she gets into the sorority by claiming unfair snubbing practices, how bad will she be snubbed once in. I hope she isn't serious about being accepted by this group of girls.

"A university uses race as a factor in the admission process, but punishes one of its own sororities for doing the same thing.

"We have all black schools. We have all male schools. We have all female schools. But it is illegal to have an all white school? What happened there?

"I was recently asked, "Why do you [black people] always complain about discrimination, no white people complain about your all-black colleges!" The answer is that we had to start our own colleges, fraternities and sororities because we were not allowed in the white ones. Today, we should be allowed to attend any college and join any sorority, but come on now, how many whites are really going to apply to Morehouse or Spelman or join a black fraternity or sorority?

"To the student who was booted out: Sorry, but that's life babe. Go find the crowd you fit in and quit crying, the frat house is not going to govern your life after graduation.

"My guess is there are no WHITE women in Alpha Kappa Alpha because they haven't applied.

"Yes, GREEKs discriminate. But we're trying to take the human race to a higher level of cognitive functioning, no?

"To be honest, I have seen at least 3 WHITE girls in Alpha Kappa Alpha. Skee Wee!"

***Please direct all hate mail to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, NOT to me. I am not the author of any of these comments, although I do agree with some of them. I'm just passing this along***


------------------
Kelli
Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
12-Delta Nu-94
MAL, Southern Region
Savannah State University c/o 1997



[This message has been edited by 12dn94dst (edited September 12, 2000).]
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