Advice to rushers: re: legacies

[carnation]

Originally posted by ktb323
I was cut not only by my legacy, but by every other "top house" and was later told by friends that their houses DO automatically cut legacies to other "top houses."

With the new release policies, this has seemed to be the norm the past few years. As I have been saying, almost every legacy I know who has rushed at a big school lately has been cut by her legacy chapter AND many if not all of the others within 2 parties. It's like they're saying, "She'll surely go ABC so let's go ahead and cut her now since we have to cut so many."

I discussed this with someone at NPC and she didn't think this was happening. I doubt that anyone keeps records on this kind of thing and feel that she has no idea of what's going on. She said that in her experience, chapters try to steal legacies from each other. While it may have been true at her school and very well may be at others, it's not happening here in the Southeast. With the new cut figures, the last thing a strong chapter is going to bother with is copping someone else's legacy.

[carnation]

Originally posted by lauralaylin
Is this really true of anyone's group? It sounds to me like the chapter was just off the ball, not that it's no longer something that chapters do. I think that a chapter should definitely call the sister if they drop a legacy. I would never let any of the chapters I deal with not call, it's unfair to both the sister and the legacy.

Sorry for the double post, I just saw this. One of my daughters rushed last fall and was a double legacy to one group. It seemed like they couldn't cut her fast enough and her sisters never received a call. Furthermore, when they called the chapter to see why no one had called, the president was quite rude and said that her chapter could pick whomever they wanted and that my other daughters should just suck it up. Then they got an email from the chapter advisor that pretty much reiterated what the president said.

[kddani]

Originally posted by alum
Nepotism is a fact of life and should be encouraged in a group that calls its members "sisters." I know plenty of people who drop all donations to universities and private orgs (ie GLOS) if their children don't get selected.

You can't criticize donors for their choice of donation recipients. And yes, they have the right to drop any donations to groups they don't see meeting their ideals.

Were you a KKG legacy?

From the Alpha Gam Legacy Introduction Form:

• The Fraternity expects all collegiate chapters to give serious consideration to each legacy out of courtesy to her AGD relative and encourages pledging our legacies. However, since chapters choose their own members, they are not required to offer a bid to the legacy.
• A legacy must be invited back to the first round of invitational events.
• If a legacy is released by the chapter, an advisor must telephone her AGD relative and notify her of this decision.

I like how my organization practices "courtesy" and "consideration" rather than NEPOTISM, as was earlier suggested.

[alum]

Originally posted by kddani
Were you a KKG legacy?

No, but we never cut anyone who was. We also gave extra consideration to all Greek legacies.

My biological sister ended up being my Kappa sister although at a different chapter. It might sound trite but it did bring us even closer.

Nepotism may be too harsh a word but I am all for it.

[ISUKappa]

Both my undergraduate chapter and the chapter I advise cut legacies if they feel they're not a good fit.

BUT, I will encourage the chapter I advise, if the legacy is on the line (she's a little more shy/quiet, but fits the GPA requirements, etc...), if possible, it's nice to give her one more day to give different women the chance to talk to her and see if she will open up. Ultimately, that choice is up to the chapter, though.

Overall, I would say legacies maybe make up about 1/3 of the women who go through recruitment at the school, so having too many is never an issue.

[sageofages]

Without going into specifics...

Phi Mu has a policy to protect the "privacy" of the potential new member who is a legacy....in either regard, receiving or not...invitations to further parties and ultimately, a bid.

[honeychile]

The women who had legacy daughters in our chapter must have been very on the ball, compared to some of these scenarios! I honestly don't know if my chapter still does this, but when we have Founders Day, legacies are encouraged to attend - especially if they're going to attend Pitt. I can remember seeing sisters old enough to be my mother, busily filling out rec forms for each other's daughters!

But, in this case, we ALSO got a preview on the legacies. In the past five years, I can say that I know of one legacy that the chapter said, "No way, no how, she's obnoxious!" and at least four who ended up being initiated, with their mothers or sisters there.

As a former Rec Chairman, I can see NO EXCUSE for not contacting the relative of a legacy about to be released! Again, this could have changed, but we needed to call our PD to release an in-house legacy, and Executive Office for a multigenerational one, but except in one case, we still could release them.

Back to the "obnoxious legacy": I knew her mother, so when I heard she was being cut, I asked if I could call her mother to break it to her. I thought that was better than a stranger, and I could honestly say, "Peg, she just doesn't look happy here." Plus, she really was obnoxious!! Love her mother, but...

[Ndigayenza]

Originally posted by WVU alpha phi
My campus has the policy that sisters aren't allowed to talk to PNMs at all during recruitment, whether it's about rush or not (unless there's a rare case where you're in a study group with a sister and you must talk to her for school).

Hi, I'm from a non NPC organization. Actually, we are under NALFO (National Association of Latino Fraternal Organizations). And a lot of orgs under NALFO (including mine) don't rush. We have events, we talk to PNMs, we act like regular people around them. We don't do pref parties. It's a whole different world when it comes to recruitment...actually, my org doesn't "recruit". We don't do these things because then it makes it seem like WE are choosing ABC girl and not MNO girl. Instead we prefer for PNMs to come to us. Approach us and then we and the PNM take it from there. Wow, how do you get to know the PNM if you can't interact with them? i feel it's better to interact because atleast when it comes time to say, "I want this org" or "we want you" or not, it's not soooo devastating because somewhere throughout your interactions, you realized which way you wanted to go...and not through pref parties, not through invite-only events...that's only my opinion, not my org's, and just in case, i am not trying to play anyone or their respective org.

Okay, about legacies. I'm going to try not to be redundant, restating what others have said. My org, Hermandad de Sigma Iota Alpha, Inc. is so new that we don't have any daughter legacies. We are only 15 years old with our oldest member...a founder of course, being around 35-37. We do have a lot of sister/cousin legacies. In fact, in my chapter Alpha Alpha, we have two bio sisters. We acknowledge the fact that the PNM is a legacy but in all, that doesn't affect our judgement. Honestly, if my little sister went to a school that had SIAs and wanted to join or she wanted to bring SIA on campus, I would raise my brows. Great girl, not SIA material. It's really a matter of both the org and the potential asking "What can you do for me" and "What can I do for you"?

We've had cases where sister legacies and cousin legs went to other orgs...hey, no big deal.

[lauralaylin]

Originally posted by carnation
Sorry for the double post, I just saw this. One of my daughters rushed last fall and was a double legacy to one group. It seemed like they couldn't cut her fast enough and her sisters never received a call. Furthermore, when they called the chapter to see why no one had called, the president was quite rude and said that her chapter could pick whomever they wanted and that my other daughters should just suck it up. Then they got an email from the chapter advisor that pretty much reiterated what the president said.

I understand that this happens all the time. One of the chapters I've advised for had never heard of calling the sister until I told them about it. But I just thought it was the policy of every org to call. Maybe not, since the chapter advisor at this sorority you're mentioning backed up the president. I just wonder if she was misinformed or trying to cover up that her chapter screwed up. I've personally never advised a chapter at the same time as when they dropped a legacy, but if it happens this year, I'm making sure that they do it. I'll be sitting right next to them as they make the call.

[ZTAngel]

Originally posted by adpiucf
That is correct, but human error does occur, and sometimes the wrong chapters receive the clean copy.

UCF does manually try to cover up the legacy info on the application when sending it out to the other sororities but, like adpiucf said, errors did happen. There were a few times where we'd get the clean copy that should have gone to another sorority.

At the same time, if the PNM had a sister that was in a sorority at UCF or even at another Florida school for that matter, we most likely knew what sorority she was a legacy too. UCF sororities are so big that we have girls from all parts of the state in the chapter. There were countless times when a girl would go through recruitment and someone in my chapter would say, "I graduated high school with her older sister who is an XYZ at Florida State."

[dakareng]

Originally posted by lauralaylin
I understand that this happens all the time. One of the chapters I've advised for had never heard of calling the sister until I told them about it. But I just thought it was the policy of every org to call. Maybe not, since the chapter advisor at this sorority you're mentioning backed up the president. I just wonder if she was misinformed or trying to cover up that her chapter screwed up. I've personally never advised a chapter at the same time as when they dropped a legacy, but if it happens this year, I'm making sure that they do it. I'll be sitting right next to them as they make the call.

It may also be the policy of the organization to not release ANY information. Not every organization calls legacy relations. Truthfully, I've never heard of such a thing. Pi Beta Phi chapters do not make such calls. They are not expected to, nor encouraged to do so. While recruitment in progress, any communication with alumnae is through advisors and alumnae clubs are reminded of this. When you can fill quota plus just with legacies as happens on some campus, the pressure on that chapter would be horrific if every mother was expecting a phone call when her daughter was released. What happens in membership selection is privileged information. If a mother wants to know why her daughter was released, a regional officer might be able to give her answers but unless it is a straightforward issue such as grades, it is unlikely there will be an answer that will satisfy the mother.

[33girl]

Originally posted by alum
No, but we never cut anyone who was. We also gave extra consideration to all Greek legacies.

Nepotism may be too harsh a word but I am all for it.

That is because you went to Carnegie Mellon and you didn't have 80 ookabillion legacies going through like at LSU or Ole Miss.

I can't imagine being the rush chair at one of those schools and having to decide which legacies - and oftentimes not just sorority legacies, CHAPTER legacies - to cut and which to keep because there just isn't room to take all of them. Cut the wrong one, you lose 100's of $$ in donations - keep the wrong one, and her sterling pedigree could be a completely "paper" thing only, which you won't find out until she does something hideously embarrassing. I know all the chapter votes but it comes back on the rush chair, and I feel for them - it's a lot of pressure for a college age woman to handle.

Before you say someone isn't doing enough, put yourself in their shoes.

[kddani]

Originally posted by alum
No, but we never cut anyone who was. We also gave extra consideration to all Greek legacies.

My biological sister ended up being my Kappa sister although at a different chapter. It might sound trite but it did bring us even closer.

Nepotism may be too harsh a word but I am all for it.

Well that's fine, because you went to a campus where your chapter had that luxury. CMU is not a competitive rush and the sorority chapters are all on fairly equal footing.

And it's easy to support nepotism when you went to a school where there weren't many legacies. If you had rushed at a comnpetitive school, you likely wouldn't have gotten a bid to KKG, because you weren't a legacy. If you got cut from all the groups because you weren't a legacy, you'd be singing a different song.

You never cut anyone who was a legacy? I don't know if that's a good thing, in that you were just lucky to not have any nightmare legacies going through. A legacy just may not be a good fit for a chapter. They could be a risk management nightmare, for example. Giving every one of them a bid doesn't sound very "elite" to me.

Your chapter also wouldn't have had many legacies going through rush anyway. Pitt didn't either. It's easy to say, and actually carry through with, giving legacies additional consideration when you may only have a couple.

But when there's a chapter with more legacies going through than spots, giving even MORE consideration to legacies isn't really plausible. The legacy has to have more going for her than just her birthright

[alum]

Originally posted by kddani
Well that's fine, because you went to a campus where your chapter had that luxury. CMU is not a competitive rush and the sorority chapters are all on fairly equal footing.

And it's easy to support nepotism when you went to a school where there weren't many legacies. If you had rushed at a comnpetitive school, you likely wouldn't have gotten a bid to KKG, because you weren't a legacy. If you got cut from all the groups because you weren't a legacy, you'd be singing a different song.

You never cut anyone who was a legacy? I don't know if that's a good thing, in that you were just lucky to not have any nightmare legacies going through. A legacy just may not be a good fit for a chapter. They could be a risk management nightmare, for example. Giving every one of them a bid doesn't sound very "elite" to me.

Extrapolating what has been written by some of the women who are experiencing today's recruitments as moms, it sounds as if it is more difficult if you are a legacy. Therefore, I may have had a better chance going through rush as a non-legacy at a competitive school which is the opposite of what you claim.