Our problem, solution?

[SigEpYoda]

I would like to start a frank, open, and honest dialogue to tackle the problem of GLOs. So I'll put in my two cents about the problem we are facing:

1. Hazing. This is perhap the most destructive action that has hinder the growth of GLO as a whole. Various people have been killed do to foolishness and disregard for common sense. Just a week or so ago, an individuals was killed in U of Georgia. Many of you wonder how this will effect your school or organization. It will, no longer can we turn a blindside and ignore blatant hazing with reasoning that it's their own thing. Their action will also bring you down. The public does not know the difference between Alpha, Beta, Gamma, etc. They know one thing, somebody was killed and the fraternity has something to do with it. Like it or not, we all face the consequences.

2. Alcohol Abuse.
The Harvard Study is totally bogus. I've seen their method, and as a grad student I would never ever used their standard. According to their standard, 80% of people on my campus, both greeks and non, are binge drinkers. However, the problem is still there. I'm not saying don't drink. It will be highly hypocritical of me. Instead, use your head and drink responsibly.

That is not all, but I hope every one has other problem they would like to confront. Basically my message is simple, during pledging, if you can't do it in front of your mom, and you wouldn't wan't your son or father to go through it, then don't do it.
Drinking, responsibility. Just use your head and think.

------------------
Try Not . . . Do

[awatters]

You forgot casual sexual relationships. While the general public is allowed to be as promiscuous as possible, GLO members are expected to follow a different morality because they are the "elite." Breaking this morality causes the public to question the high-horse ideals that all GLOs talk up.

------------------
andrew watters
Theta Chi –*ucla

[33girl]

Andrew...
What exactly are you trying to say? That we should all keep our legs crossed or what?
Anyway, Yoda... as far as hazing, it reflects society as a whole. Society is much more violent now than it was even 10 years ago, it's only logical that the @#$&s who haze would get more violent. My solution is to punish the crap out of those who do the violent/sick things, and quit seeing things like interviews & scavenger hunts as hazing. The same applies to alcohol. It's a reflection of society as a whole.

[LXAAlum]

SigEp - I can't remember where I saw the post (possibly under the hazing Forum), but, for both of your points, hazing and alcohol abuse - these two are clearly related to one another. I'm not a big advocate of forcing GLO's to go dry, but I do believe that any consumption of alcohol should be done in a responsible manner - that is what you see many fraternities professing these days, other than the national organization that have mandated a dry chapter (Sigma Nu and Phi Delts recently, and I believe FarmHouse has always been dry). To me, this is truly sad that a national organization dictates such a hard-line policy in order to fix a trend that the members themselves should be fixing first.

In order to fix one problem, you have to look at both. And my personal feeling is that the root cause of the problem is GLO's getting so far away from the founding purposes of the order. We, collectively have allowed our standards to erode to the point that the stereotypes about us are the perceived reality, which is the real sad part of greek life, and affects recruitment foremost.

If you get a chance to, look back at some older yearbooks of your campus, or any campus for that matter, when Greeks ruled the campus in the manner we should be trying to get to today - running the school, being the leaders, setting the trends (the positive trends, that is). We need to get "back to the roots" of our organizations goals. When new members/pledges/associate members see the true initiation ceremony - that is where the rubber meets the road - that is what we should be striving for.

I'm not saying we should forgoe the "social" aspect in any way, but, we need to reevaluate how social aspects interface with academics and our individual organization's ideals. Part of college is to learn responsible social behavior, and, for too many years, social behavior has been linked to alcohol almost at the exclusion of anything else.

Let's get back to the basics - ask those members who have only joined for the wrong reasons (joining only for the parties or to "hook up") to leave the organization - in the long run, I feel we have nothing to lose. It is the action of these few members, who do not live up to the ideals and/or oaths they have sworn to their organization that cause the problems for the majority.

------------------
Don't be your brother's keeper; rather, be your brother's Brother.

[awatters]

Andrew...
What exactly are you trying to say? That we should all keep our legs crossed or what?

Yes, to a certain extent. Of course you shouldn't completely avoid having sex, but just restrict it to the people you really love and there won't be any problems. Seriously, the image of GLO women as sluts will definitely change if they would just (in general–*I know that a lot of women already do this) refrain from having sex so often. Think about it, please. Realize that the media loves to latch onto sexual promiscuity in order to tell a story with a hidden agenda: that GLOs are exclusive and hypocritical organizations that have no place in the U.S. Let's come right back at them and prove that we are, in fact, better than they think.

------------------
andrew watters
Theta Chi –*ucla

[PenguinTrax]

One other thing to take into account is that the people joining GLOs are coming in with their alcohol habits already ingrained. The education needs to start earlier - curb the drinking problem in junior & senior high school and you'll see the numbers go down on the collegiate end.



------------------
Fraternally,
Barbara
Zeta Tau Alpha Alumna

If you have to go around telling everyone you're in charge you're not much of a leader.

[33girl]

HOLY DOUBLE STANDARD, BATMAN!!

I sincerely hope that you just FORGOT to mention that there are fraternity members out there who are the biggest male sluts on earth. To expect the women to be as pure as the driven snow, and go “nudge nudge wink wink” to the guys who are boffing everything in sight…that’s anachronistic, archaic BS.

I never thought I’d be defending cheerleaders, but how many movies have there been that portray all cheerleaders as sluts? That’s obviously not true, any more than sorority women’s being either all sluts or all prudes is true. I don’t want to get into a big morals discussion here, but I find it just as bad to be one of these girls who hangs onto her virginity to “catch” a man and not because she means it, as it is to sleep around. That goes for all women, Greek or otherwise.

I'm always amused when the argument against GLOs is elitism. Of course the administration then goes on the news boasting it's elite standards of acceptance, or its elite athletic teams. The aspect of Darmouth itself being an ivy league is basically saying unless you are either rich or very smart, your not getting in. Hmm, sound very elitist to me. If those administrator or faculty really are concern about elitism, well, lobby their school to accept anybody with a high school diploma. I'll guarantee no Dartmouth faculty will jumping in that bandwagon. And I'm proud that my organization is the "elite" organization in my school. Nothing wrong with being an elite, after all, if your not in an elite organization when you work, you might just loose your job the next day.

[LXAAlum]

I think the term "elitism" is perjorative - and that is part of the problem. Instead of calling ourselves "elite," I'd prefer to have Greeks say that "we are called to live to a higher standard" - whatever your ideals are, we, as Greeks, should always be striving for higher aspirations. The hardest part is in actually doing this - and getting "recognition" (press coverage other than when deaths from hazing, or riots, etc... that the media feed on) of the positives of Greek life, that always have, still do, and always will outweigh the microscopic number of bad incidents in comparison.

I do find the contradiction amusing regarding Dartmouth and/or atheletes. But remember this, atheletic programs are going to be much more vigorously protected than Greeks anyday, for positive publicity AND foremost for the revenue the program generates. I'd love for greeks to find a way to rival that kind of revenue, but I doubt we could hold parties and charge the same price for admission as are charged for football tickets (not to mention that would be against the laws of the organization in most instances too) - but I dare to dream...

------------------
Don't be your brother's keeper; rather, be your brother's Brother.

[mgdzkm433]

Ok watters, I gotta go with what 33 is saying. First, Not all sorority girls are sluts (I know you know this but just pointing it out), Second, Not all Fraternity men are male sluts. And no one is accusing here.

Lets see. . . can we think of a positive nickname for men who have premarital sex? Stud is one, lady's man is another. Can you name more? OK, lets name a positive name for a woman who has premarital sex. HMMMM, can you think of any? Probably not. Why is that? Probably because society believes that it's ok for the boy to spread his legs, but not for a girl because it's "not lady like." It take two to tango buddy! I now A LOT more guys who go out just to get drunk and screw the first thing that walks by (excuse my language) than I do girls. AND, ask any woman how many partners she had had, and ask any man the same age how many partners HE has had. In most cases, the man has a MUCH higher number. The sad part is, yes, women are the ones who get the bad name, so instead of telling us to hold a nickle tightly between our knees, why don't we educate society. Make them aware that women who sleep with multiple partners aren't always sluts, and men who sleep with multiple parnters aren't always studs. My roommate in college was raped by some guys in a fraternity. You know what? She was the one who got the bad name. How does that make sense? That is an extreme case, but come on, you can't address all the women in sororities who sleep with multiple partners without addressing the men. That would be hypocritical.

------------------
Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[LXAAlum]

Is there a net forum where we can find out more information on chapter's closed due to hazing and other reasons? Most nationals web sites do not publish such information, yet my GLO's quarterly publication outlines for members which chapters were closed and why.

I used to get information in the past from our nationals, and it was a very effective eye-opening tool to use when I was a chapter advisor - reading what had happened to people due to loss of focus on the principles and ideals, as well as sheer stupidity, made them more careful about the choices they made.

If anyone knows of a site or other resource, I'd appreciate it.

------------------
Don't be your brother's keeper; rather, be your brother's Brother.

[mgdzkm433]

I'm glad that you see it this way watters. I live with my boyfriend. Let me tell you, it is not well recieved, but it is something that our society is seeing more of everyday. The had part is that when my relationship is discussed, I am the evil person who bewitched a "nice young man." I'm the slut or whore, I'm the bad person, while my boyfriend is the poor sould who happened to be my "latest" victum. What a load of BS. People don't realize what I had to go through for this man! We are planning to get married, but not anytime soon. I knew he was the one, that is the only reason I agreed to move in with him. It was so hard for me to "defy" my parents. My brother lived with his girlfriend (he's lived with a few). But my parents actually said that it was OK for him to live with his significant other, but not for their daughter. I know first hand what society thinks, because I'm one of the "floozies" they think this way about. We got turned down for so many appartments and houses(rentals) because we weren't married it's not funny! My point to all this is, male escapades are much more widly accepted than female escapades. Yes, sorority girls are looked at in a harsher light than fraternity guys, but we need to make the public aware that in all actuality, it is not because we are in a sorority we have multiple partners, it is because we are human, it is because we are individuals. Being part of a sorority does not mean that we sign a contract when initiated that says "I will sleep with X number of men before I graduate." We do not sleep with multiple partners because we are automatically transformed once we are initiated into sex machines. People in greek organizations do not make all their decissions based on their sorority or fraternity. We are individuals that are allowed and very capable of making up our own minds. THIS is what the public needs to be made aware of.

Just a note: I believe that the word "stud" is more widely recognized to be a good term rather than a bad one. . .but I could be wrong.

------------------
Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[BSUPhiSig'92]

Originally posted by LXAAlum:
Is there a net forum where we can find out more information on chapter's closed due to hazing and other reasons? Most nationals web sites do not publish such information, yet my GLO's quarterly publication outlines for members which chapters were closed and why.

I used to get information in the past from our nationals, and it was a very effective eye-opening tool to use when I was a chapter advisor - reading what had happened to people due to loss of focus on the principles and ideals, as well as sheer stupidity, made them more careful about the choices they made.

If anyone knows of a site or other resource, I'd appreciate it.

LXAAlum:

The listserv of the Association of Fraternity Advisors carries news daily about chapters closed because of hazing, alcohol violations, etc. I will try to post some of those. I do know, that just today, Sigma Alpha Mu (Sammie) closed its chapter at Indiana University after allegations of hazing.

[James]

Also, you can go to:
http://www.uwiretoday.com/

Its a compendium of news from college papers across the country. It usuualy covers hazing incidents and chapter closings. ITs updated daily.

[awatters]

Sorry, I didn't mean to omit the part about men–*I hold myself to the same standard I expect women to adhere to, so I'm actually not a hypocrite. The women that I like find "studs" unattractive, just as I find "sluts" unattractive. The reason people think that GLOs are full of sexually loose people is that they only notice the studs and sluts. So if we self-regulate, our image will improve.

I agree that it's a problem that men are "allowed" to get around, while women are not–*it's a societal norm that needs to be revised.

------------------
andrew watters
Theta Chi –*ucla