Greek letters / spelling out letters

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by ChioLu

Not allowing your New Members to wear letters until being initiated is (now) called HAZING. It singles out what 1 group of members can do, or cannot do.

Chi Omega (also) can put letters on a shirt which non-members can wear, but no one except members can wear the crest.

It might be considered hazing in your organization, but blanket statements are dangerous to make. And realistically, all organizations makes distinctions between different classes of members.

[ChioLu]

While a different t-shirt is not like "paddling the pledges". pressuring the pledges to commit a crime or mandatory alcohol shots. It's the broad sense of treating one group of the same fraternity/sorority different than the rest. It's subjective.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by ChioLu

Not allowing your New Members to wear letters until being initiated is (now) called HAZING. It singles out what 1 group of members can do, or cannot do.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Serious Question: Do you allow New Members to wear the badge instead of a new member pin prior to initiation? Because if you don't, it seems like that would also be hazing if the criterion is singling out what one group of members can do and another group of members can't.

Originally Posted by ChioLu

While a different t-shirt is not like "paddling the pledges". pressuring the pledges to commit a crime or mandatory alcohol shots. It's the broad sense of treating one group of the same fraternity/sorority different than the rest. It's subjective.

I think MC's question here is very valid. By the way you bolded and capitalized your first statement, this is clearly a serious infraction in your mind. At least that's what I'm taking away from that.

There's a whole lot of grey area when it comes to hazing, and I (personally) would rank this as not-a-big-deal-and-don't-want-real-hazing-lumped-into-this-category-type-thing.

Again, that's just my take-away from all of this.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ChioLu

While a different t-shirt is not like "paddling the pledges". pressuring the pledges to commit a crime or mandatory alcohol shots. It's the broad sense of treating one group of the same fraternity/sorority different than the rest. It's subjective.

And subjective is a very dangerous thing when you're talking about whether something is forbidden or not . . . or in the case of hazing, criminal or not.

By definition, hazing is not about treating different members differently. Hazing has to do with harassment; real or potential physical, mental or emotional endangerment; demeaning someone or subjecting them to ridicule or embarrassment as part of an initiation.

Like I said, some groups have decided to use simple bright lines like "anything where members are treated differently" as a means of ensuring no one actually crosses the line. (And as I intimated, if those groups don't let NMs wear the badge or participate in all ritual, then I question whether they really are drawing the line at anything that treats members differently.) If that works for those groups, fine. But be aware that other groups may not draw the line there. To say simply "it's hazing" rather than "my group considers it hazing" risks effectively claiming that the national policies of some other GLOs require hazing.

[pshsx1]

So, I've noticed the attitude toward wearing letters is different depending on the area. From my background, only non-new members can wear the actual Greek letters. But, they're okay to wear by anyone if it's a shirt with a bunch of letters on it. Say, an IFC shirt or a party shirt.

But then I've run into other chapters where only Brothers can wear stitched letters, but anyone can wear them if they're screen printed.

And then there's the "it doesn't matter" POV.

I never get worked up about anyone's attitude towards them, really.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

So, I've noticed the attitude toward wearing letters is different depending on the area. From my background, only non-new members can wear the actual Greek letters. But, they're okay to wear by anyone if it's a shirt with a bunch of letters on it. Say, an IFC shirt or a party shirt.

By non-new members,do you mean Phis and above?

[Sciencewoman]

Originally Posted by ChioLu

Not allowing your New Members to wear letters until being initiated is (now) called HAZING. It singles out what 1 group of members can do, or cannot do.

Gamma Phi Beta agrees with this position. In the New Member Education Manual, it states, under the heading Practices Considered Hazing:

"Some activities and expectations which are considered to be hazing:

• Preventing new members from wearing Gamma Phi Beta letters"

(yes, it is the first bullet)

I would say that our definition of hazing falls on the strict end of the spectrum, but I think that's a good idea. That said, the Greek letters vs. spelled out words rule might have links to initiation ritual/meaning for some groups, and I respect that.

[33girl]

We had Greek Week shirts with all the fraternities' and sororities' (around 20 groups total) letters on them. No one thought twice about it. Crests would have been another story.

I have never had a problem with our pledges wearing letters before initiation...but our letters correspond to an open motto, readable by anyone who looks at our crest. I would never, ever, ever presume to tell another group they should do the same, as I have no clue what their letters mean or whether it works the same way ours does.

Finally, regardless of what your national HQ says, compelling new members to wear letters may ALSO be hazing, if it sets them apart from the general campus norms, cultures and traditions.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by WhiteRose1912

I'm pretty sure this varies? I know Theta Phi considers it hazing, but I thought I'd heard of at least one NPC org that had a national rule about only initiated sisters wearing letters. New members don't know what they mean, so why should they wear them? I see both sides of the issue.

I believe it's Kappa Alpha Theta.. but please, someone correct me if I'm wrong!

Originally Posted by honeychile

Alpha Delta Pi's policy is the same as Chi Omega's. Our use of the crest is for members only, and should never, ever appear on glassware made for alcoholic beverages. That said, it happens. That said, it upsets me when I see the crest on shot glasses etc!

Yes!

This is the same for AST on both accounts. And our coat-of-arms is only for initiated sisters to wear (which may be what you meant by "members" in your statement?)

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I believe it's Kappa Alpha Theta.. but please, someone correct me if I'm wrong!

I think it's true of both Theta and Pi Phi. Maybe others as well.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I believe it's Kappa Alpha Theta.. but please, someone correct me if I'm wrong!

Yes, only initiated members may wear the letters.

However, on my campus, we were a little more lax with party shirts, philanthropy shirts, etc. For example, Derby Day shirts come to mind. Three** of the ten groups on our campus required initiation to wear letters, however, on the Derby Day shirts every year all 10 groups were listed by their letters and no one got worked up about it. Date party shirts could be either way- shortened nicknames, or small letters, particularly on the front pocket.

This distinction was partly because those shirts were worn by the masses, whereas stitched letters were solely worn by members (new and initiated) of a specific group. Somehow we never considered the teeny letters on the front pocket or in the long list of sororities as truly "wearing the letters."

As said above- campus culture variations and lots of people interpreting things the way they see fit.

**At the time, on my campus, the other two were Pi Phi and ChiO. I guess either Chi-O's policy has changed or our campus applied their own rules? As far as I know, Pi Phi still holds out until initiation.

[TSteven]

Add Sigma Chi, and I believe Alpha Epsilon Phi as well, to the list of GLOs where only initiated members may wear Greek letters. I would also add that I’ve seen many a Sigma Chi Derby Day shirt that includes (Sigma Chi) letters on them and I don’t think it is a concern by IHQ.

[AZTheta]

Per Kappa Alpha Theta bylaws (paraphrased):

Only initiated members AND colony members may wear the Greek Letters Kappa Alpha Theta. There are exceptions: Theta's Greek letters may be worn by others IF they appear in a promotional sense WITH other fraternal organizations (e.g. philanthropy activities - banners, clothing, etc.). New members can wear the letters (e.g. on t-shirts) for the purpose of promoting the Greek system or philanthropic activities. So seeing our letters on a Derby Day tshirt (just for example) along with other GLOs is fine; and new members can wear those shirts.

[aephi alum]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Add Sigma Chi, and I believe Alpha Epsilon Phi as well, to the list of GLOs where only initiated members may wear Greek letters.

You are correct - only initiated sisters of Alpha Epsilon Phi may wear the Greek letters. New members and non-members can wear items with "AEPhi" or "Alpha Epsilon Phi" fully spelled out, but not with the Greek letter phi.

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Per Kappa Alpha Theta bylaws (paraphrased):

Only initiated members AND colony members may wear the Greek Letters Kappa Alpha Theta. There are exceptions: Theta's Greek letters may be worn by others IF they appear in a promotional sense WITH other fraternal organizations (e.g. philanthropy activities - banners, clothing, etc.). New members can wear the letters (e.g. on t-shirts) for the purpose of promoting the Greek system or philanthropic activities. So seeing our letters on a Derby Day tshirt (just for example) along with other GLOs is fine; and new members can wear those shirts.

I was just coming here to post this, I remember you and I talking about it once. When I was an active, we insisted party shirts and greek week shirt with all letters on them only say "Theta" and not "KAO."