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  #16  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:06 PM
NYCAlumna NYCAlumna is offline
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Hmm ouch, that certainly seems bleak. Our Panhel is currently in the process of getting a committee together to vote on expansion, (we know they want a new org on campus, regardless, as all the sororities met their cap last semester) and we know we have to wait until that happens before anything else. We're meeting with the IGC advisor on Monday to find out more. I am remaining optimistic about our chances because of our good relationship with the school, and the fact that we are still a small greek community. But it does look like we won't have much of a say when it comes to which org is picked, other than working with Panhel on who they'd already think is a good fit. I know the org would also have to pick us back, so it's tricky.

It looks like my sorority will have 4 new NMs by the end of this week, as DubaiSis said we are telling our PNMs of our desire/plans to go national. My girls have a goal of being an active chapter with above 10 members by the spring, so I am also hoping that will also help us.

AOII Angel, do you know where I can find that thread? I've been looking for that exact kind of topic and haven't had any luck. Thanks for well wishes, WCsweet<3 and everyone else for their help so far. I will keep everyone updated.

PS, also thank you Xidelt - I would like nothing more than for my local to thrive as we are, if I thought that was still possible I would be telling my girls to hold off on their national pursuit, but it's only become harder and harder to recruit. No one at all is interested in locals at formal recruitment any more, and my girls have zero budget to advertise with. I was completely dismayed to find PNMs talking shit about being local at all on GreenRank.com, even in reference to the national sorority that just absorbed their local. "It was a local sorority a few years ago - ew." When I rushed, it was about who you fit with, not who was local and who was national. Even when nationals starting gaining favor, being local was just perceived as different, not "gross." WTF? So sad. :/
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  #17  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:21 PM
navane navane is offline
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Originally Posted by NYCAlumna View Post
Hmm ouch, that certainly seems bleak. Our Panhel is currently in the process of getting a committee together to vote on expansion, (we know they want a new org on campus, regardless, as all the sororities met their cap last semester) and we know we have to wait until that happens before anything else. We're meeting with the IGC advisor on Monday to find out more. I am remaining optimistic about our chances because of our good relationship with the school, and the fact that we are still a small greek community. But it does look like we won't have much of a say when it comes to which org is picked, other than working with Panhel on who they'd already think is a good fit. I know the org would also have to pick us back, so it's tricky.

I know it's a disappointment; but, I agree with the others in saying that you don't have much to stand on at this point. For all intents and purposes, your sorority is now defunct and has no room to make "demands" about a new NPC GLO respecting your local sorority traditions and keeping it's history alive. There's also no room to negotiate that alumnae members get to be initiated, which IMHO, you should not be considering a "priority" as you stated in your first post.

Your best bet is to strengthen up what is left of your local sorority and hope that Panhellenic will allow you to offer some opinions on the new GLO. But, honestly, you'll be lucky if the new GLO agrees to take all 8 members (they don't have to do so).
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2013, 10:19 PM
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I can't find the thread (it may no longer exist...moderators may have removed it for good reason as it specifically named two groups.) The gist of the story is that the local "fell in love" with group A but Panhellenic invited group B to colonize. The person who posted the story came on GC complaining that she hated the name of group B, didn't like their colors or philanthropy. She didn't like what they stood for, etc. Greekchat gave her a well deserved lecture on the similarities of all our organizations. The women in the chapters make our groups. You can have a great experience with any of the 26 NPC organizations.
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  #19  
Old 10-06-2013, 03:47 AM
NYCAlumna NYCAlumna is offline
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Originally Posted by AOII Angel View Post
She didn't like what they stood for, etc. Greekchat gave her a well deserved lecture on the similarities of all our organizations. The women in the chapters make our groups. You can have a great experience with any of the 26 NPC organizations.
THIS I completely agree with. I am sure we would do well with any org that would have us.

However, I disagree that our sorority is looking to make any "demands" of anyone. These are just things we would want to happen should we be absorbed. If no organization is willing to incorporate our 25+ year history in the smallest of ways, (i.e., teaching women that the chapter colonized by XYZ org) or initiate our alumnae, we will probably just choose to die out and not be absorbed. That's not a "threat," it's just our pride in our history, letters and chapter. I would think it would be a win for an NPC to be able to absorb a chapter with women who are already familiar with the new campus's Panhel than to come in completely cold. It would be great for us to have the opportunity to become a part of an established NPC GLO as well, obviously. But if that's not a possibility, it's not a possibility.

My organization has 150+ alumnae, dozens of which still reside in the area and would be excited to initiate, help the new members, and provide guidance to the incoming GLO about the campus and the way GL works there. ... I know that NPC sororities today all have 100+ women in every chapter, but I don't think it's so outrageous to think that an NPC GLO would find value in 8-10 very passionate, organized women. After all, most NPC GLOs were founded by less than 10 women. In many large organizations, it's still 10 people who are doing 90% of the work.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

Locals are being edged out of campus either way, so we either go down quietly, or we go down fighting. I am their advisor because I prefer the latter. Thank you all again for your input! I'll certainly update as things progress.

Last edited by NYCAlumna; 10-06-2013 at 03:49 AM. Reason: Grammar
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  #20  
Old 10-06-2013, 06:16 AM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Originally Posted by NYCAlumna View Post
My organization has 150+ alumnae, dozens of which still reside in the area and would be excited to initiate, help the new members, and provide guidance to the incoming GLO about the campus and the way GL works there. ... I know that NPC sororities today all have 100+ women in every chapter, but I don't think it's so outrageous to think that an NPC GLO would find value in 8-10 very passionate, organized women. After all, most NPC GLOs were founded by less than 10 women. In many large organizations, it's still 10 people who are doing 90% of the work.
1) There aren't 100+ women in every NPC chapter, and

2) A sorority being founded 100+ years ago by 4-10 women is not the same as 4-10 women of a local sorority being absorbed by a national organization today
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  #21  
Old 10-06-2013, 03:08 PM
Katmandu Katmandu is offline
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Originally Posted by NYCAlumna View Post

The girls we crossed last semester are incredibly dedicated to reviving our chapter

It is a priority for us that all of our alumnae are able to be initiated if they choose it, that we be able to incorporate the history of our local sorority into the chapter's new member process, and that we stay committed to recruiting diverse women of every race, creed, class, etc.

We are willing to accept the new letters, symbols, meaning, history etc of a new organization, but we want to make sure it continues to be made up of women who will respect our past and our values.

It does sound a bit like demands...at least something more than simply informing members about the former local's history. But remember, any new women joining would have no ties with the local, and they would be interested in the history, symbols and values of the national group. Are your values so different from national organizations that it must be presented separately, as something unique?
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  #22  
Old 10-06-2013, 03:26 PM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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It does sound a bit like demands...at least something more than simply informing members about the former local's history. But remember, any new women joining would have no ties with the local, and they would be interested in the history, symbols and values of the national group. Are your values so different from national organizations that it must be presented separately, as something unique?
This.

Of course every chapter has it's history, and being a local would be something that historically, a chapter would basically have to recognize. I've seen chapters that started as locals keep in their house some items (banners, badges, composites, paddles) from the local to remind them where they started. However, the new members are only going to know the potential NPC, and the potential NPC would be under no obligations to follow any traditions created by your sorority. And this is especially true when it comes to pledging/the new member process. In an attempt to eliminate hazing, the NPCs have structured programs that they have chapters follow and try to oversee as much as possible, which would be especially true for a colony/new chapter.
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  #23  
Old 10-06-2013, 05:14 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is online now
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This.

Of course every chapter has it's history, and being a local would be something that historically, a chapter would basically have to recognize. I've seen chapters that started as locals keep in their house some items (banners, badges, composites, paddles) from the local to remind them where they started. However, the new members are only going to know the potential NPC, and the potential NPC would be under no obligations to follow any traditions created by your sorority. And this is especially true when it comes to pledging/the new member process. In an attempt to eliminate hazing, the NPCs have structured programs that they have chapters follow and try to oversee as much as possible, which would be especially true for a colony/new chapter.
^^Yes^^. I do not pretend to know all 26 NPC sororities policies, but I would imagine that each NPC would feel it is most important for new members to know the NPC sorority's history. Granted, my chapter was not a local, but I only learned what number my chapter was in the list of chapters, and when the chapter was founded. All other history that I learned was ZTA national history.

Many sororities will offer membership to alumnae of the locals they absorb. I don't know that they would welcome a list of demands from alumnae of the local nor do I imagine that local alumnae would have any influence on membership selection.The alumnae of the local should also realize that there may be alumnae of the NPC sorority in the city and surrounding area that could also serve as advisors. Is the membership of the local sure that they would prefer to be absorbed by a national sorority rather than reestablish their own sorority and work for it to flourish and be a competitive alternative to the national sororities on campus?
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Last edited by FSUZeta; 10-06-2013 at 05:21 PM.
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  #24  
Old 10-06-2013, 06:37 PM
NYCAlumna NYCAlumna is offline
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I'm sorry, I don't think my point or purpose is getting across very well.

As I've said, my chapter would be happy to embrace everything about a new organization. My friends in a different local sorority just had their chapter absorbed, and the national absorbing them incorporated very small things into the chapter's process. The learning of their letters, for instance, as a small token of how the chapter got started. But everything about the chapter is now the NPC's. That is fine with us. My own sorority was started by a sisterhood of a Fraternity, and while we are fully our own org now, we teach our New Members the letters of the sisterhood because it's where our founding sisters started out. It would be a bit different with colonizing a national, they have their own history. But I'm a bit confused about what the harm or resistance would be in teaching new members about the local's history if the girls that colonized the chapter were a part of that NPC first? Also, we DO NOT HAZE. Even still, we know that NPCs have their own process and we would embrace that one over our own. We want to be absorbed because we know that NPCs are better structured than we are, they have more resources and more opportunities for their members. We would rather become a part of something bigger than ourselves than see our chapter die completely with no one to remember it. No, a lot of the girls in the new chapter would not have my letters, but I know that in other orgs that have been absorbed they teach their new members the history of the chapter, not just the national.

ASTAlumna, yes it's different. It's not 100 years ago. But I was making the point that a small group of women isn't nothing. They can accomplish a great deal. I know that there aren't 100+ in EVERY chapter, the nationals on my campus were smaller than that for a while, but it's becoming the norm. That's about as many women who wear my letters period, but again, my point was just that we're small, but not nothin'.

I have no idea where this idea of "demands" came from either. Our alumnae don't want to make any "demands" on anyone, they would like, just as much as our actives, to be able to have a chapter on campus that they can come back to. To participate in something that is the continuation of their legacy, as the girls from their sorority would be a part of its colonization. They wouldn't be coming in, telling it how to run. They would be there to offer support since we all know the campus and how it runs. I'm sure there might be some of the NPC's alumnae in the area, but ours would be just as enthusiastic.

A priority is not the same as a demand. We're not planning on looking at any of these orgs and saying "IF YOU DON'T DO XYZ THEN WE'RE OUT!" Because, what purpose would that serve? The things I mentioned were things I KNOW have happened in other locals that have been absorbed and they are things that we would like to bring up at the table as things we'd like were a group to absorb us. If an organization doesn't want to absorb our alumnae, then no, we don't want to be a part of them and we will choose to not be absorbed by them. I doubt our saying that will make any difference on whether they would or not. I have heard that some organizations initiate all the alumnae of locals they absorb, I have heard that others are selective about it. There's really nothing wrong with that, it's their prerogative, obviously, but we want a new sisterhood into which we would be welcome completely. If no organizations are open to the (very few) things we want, then that's fine, it's not for us, and we will probably end up disbanding after this year.

FSUZeta, as I said earlier we have struggled for MANY years as a local on this campus, and locals that were always bigger than us have either died out or been absorbed. The way the wind is blowing on our campus is that if you're going to join a sorority, why not join the bigger names with much bigger chapters than the small local. It was a lot different when I went through recruitment in '05, but I understand that. Since I graduated we have been able to recruit a handful of girls every year, but it's becoming harder and harder, and my girls are really tired of fighting to survive every year.

I appreciate the advice and the time you all have spent on this thread. I know this process isn't all roses and there are some hard facts that need to be pointed out, but I came here looking for help and advice about what to expect given the fact that my chapter has already voted on, and initiated this process within our IGC. I'm sorry if any of you in NPCs feel like I'm not going about this the right way (it's a lot like recruitment, isn't it?) I know all of you are protective of your traditions and your orgs, just the way I am of mine. Obviously, I have some reservations, but on the whole we are fine with being absorbed and taking on new letters/history/etc. Really. We just want to be aware of what we can do to keep our history alive in whatever small way possible through this new chapter. If an org is going to come in and ignore our local completely, that really wouldn't be absorption, it would just be the expansion of a new org that has nothing to do with us. If that's what Panhel votes on, cool. But if they vote on absorption, I'd like to do right by my sisters and my sorority's legacy as best I can. I don't want to tell the chapter they have to do this or they have to do that, but I do want to make our wishes heard. That is my only goal.

I would still like some help from anyone who has been through it before themselves, if you're out there! Thank you all again.
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  #25  
Old 10-06-2013, 06:43 PM
Cheerio Cheerio is offline
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Originally Posted by NYCAlumna View Post
I'm sorry, I don't think my point or purpose is getting across very well.

As I've said, my chapter would be happy to embrace everything about a new organization. My friends in a different local sorority just had their chapter absorbed, and the national absorbing them incorporated very small things into the chapter's process. The learning of their letters, for instance, as a small token of how the chapter got started. But everything about the chapter is now the NPC's. That is fine with us. My own sorority was started by a sisterhood of a Fraternity, and while we are fully our own org now, we teach our New Members the letters of the sisterhood because it's where our founding sisters started out. It would be a bit different with colonizing a national, they have their own history. But I'm a bit confused about what the harm or resistance would be in teaching new members about the local's history if the girls that colonized the chapter were a part of that NPC first? Also, we DO NOT HAZE. Even still, we know that NPCs have their own process and we would embrace that one over our own. We want to be absorbed because we know that NPCs are better structured than we are, they have more resources and more opportunities for their members. We would rather become a part of something bigger than ourselves than see our chapter die completely with no one to remember it. No, a lot of the girls in the new chapter would not have my letters, but I know that in other orgs that have been absorbed they teach their new members the history of the chapter, not just the national.

ASTAlumna, yes it's different. It's not 100 years ago. But I was making the point that a small group of women isn't nothing. They can accomplish a great deal. I know that there aren't 100+ in EVERY chapter, the nationals on my campus were smaller than that for a while, but it's becoming the norm. That's about as many women who wear my letters period, but again, my point was just that we're small, but not nothin'.

I have no idea where this idea of "demands" came from either. Our alumnae don't want to make any "demands" on anyone, they would like, just as much as our actives, to be able to have a chapter on campus that they can come back to. To participate in something that is the continuation of their legacy, as the girls from their sorority would be a part of its colonization. They wouldn't be coming in, telling it how to run. They would be there to offer support since we all know the campus and how it runs. I'm sure there might be some of the NPC's alumnae in the area, but ours would be just as enthusiastic.

A priority is not the same as a demand. We're not planning on looking at any of these orgs and saying "IF YOU DON'T DO XYZ THEN WE'RE OUT!" Because, what purpose would that serve? The things I mentioned were things I KNOW have happened in other locals that have been absorbed and they are things that we would like to bring up at the table as things we'd like were a group to absorb us. If an organization doesn't want to absorb our alumnae, then no, we don't want to be a part of them and we will choose to not be absorbed by them. I doubt our saying that will make any difference on whether they would or not. I have heard that some organizations initiate all the alumnae of locals they absorb, I have heard that others are selective about it. There's really nothing wrong with that, it's their prerogative, obviously, but we want a new sisterhood into which we would be welcome completely. If no organizations are open to the (very few) things we want, then that's fine, it's not for us, and we will probably end up disbanding after this year.

FSUZeta, as I said earlier we have struggled for MANY years as a local on this campus, and locals that were always bigger than us have either died out or been absorbed. The way the wind is blowing on our campus is that if you're going to join a sorority, why not join the bigger names with much bigger chapters than the small local. It was a lot different when I went through recruitment in '05, but I understand that. Since I graduated we have been able to recruit a handful of girls every year, but it's becoming harder and harder, and my girls are really tired of fighting to survive every year.

I appreciate the advice and the time you all have spent on this thread. I know this process isn't all roses and there are some hard facts that need to be pointed out, but I came here looking for help and advice about what to expect given the fact that my chapter has already voted on, and initiated this process within our IGC. I'm sorry if any of you in NPCs feel like I'm not going about this the right way (it's a lot like recruitment, isn't it?) I know all of you are protective of your traditions and your orgs, just the way I am of mine. Obviously, I have some reservations, but on the whole we are fine with being absorbed and taking on new letters/history/etc. Really. We just want to be aware of what we can do to keep our history alive in whatever small way possible through this new chapter. If an org is going to come in and ignore our local completely, that really wouldn't be absorption, it would just be the expansion of a new org that has nothing to do with us. If that's what Panhel votes on, cool. But if they vote on absorption, I'd like to do right by my sisters and my sorority's legacy as best I can. I don't want to tell the chapter they have to do this or they have to do that, but I do want to make our wishes heard. That is my only goal.

I would still like some help from anyone who has been through it before themselves, if you're out there! Thank you all again.
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  #26  
Old 10-06-2013, 06:57 PM
ASUADPi ASUADPi is offline
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I think the idea of "demands" came from you stating that your priority was finding an NPC that would initiate those alums (from your local) that wanted to initiate. I don't know enough about local absorption, but I'm not sure it works like that.

As for if at some point your local does absorb with an NPC, your new members will have the learn the national history, but I'm sure they will learn there local history as well. I learned my chapters history when I was a new member. While I wasn't "tested" on the specifics on my chapter, I was taught it. I think it is important to learn who your chapters founders were and what not.

I do think you have received some wonderful advice, which is to get your chapter active again on campus. A dormant chapter would basically be a colonization effort on the part of an NPC and at that point there is absolutely no guarantee that the NPC will take your members. (But then again, not knowing enough about absorption, I don't know if through that the NPC would automatically take all the members). Get your chapters numbers up.

I'm a bit confused though when you say the chapter has no money for advertising? I know with only 4 girls you aren't going to have a lot of money, but don't the girls have to pay dues of some kind? If they do, shouldn't some of your money be budgeted for advertising? One idea is creating a facebook page or a free webpage. The girls can invite friends on their campus to "like" their chapters facebook page. From there word can possibly spread.

I do though think it is a bit presumptuious (spelling issues with that word sorry) for you to have the girls say y'all are going national. The reality is, you don't know when or even if that will ever happen. You need to build up your locals numbers based on your history, beliefs, creed, etc.. not based on at some point you wanna go NPC. It could be a year from now, it could be 4 years from now, or it could be never.
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  #27  
Old 10-06-2013, 07:40 PM
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But I'm a bit confused about what the harm or resistance would be in teaching new members about the local's history if the girls that colonized the chapter were a part of that NPC first?
Because there are only 4 of them. No NPC sorority is going to use 4 women as the main basis for a new chapter. What you're proposing is like saying that if you had a pledge class of ten women and 3 of them were biological triplets, that part of the pledge class's education would be learning about the triplets' family history, their aunts and uncles, going to family dinners, etc.
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:14 PM
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Because there are only 4 of them. No NPC sorority is going to use 4 women as the main basis for a new chapter. What you're proposing is like saying that if you had a pledge class of ten women and 3 of them were biological triplets, that part of the pledge class's education would be learning about the triplets' family history, their aunts and uncles, going to family dinners, etc.
This. For it to truly be an absorption, you'd have to have an actual functioning chapter for an NPC to come in and take over. Right now, you basically are proposing that random NPC comes in and puts in the work to start a colony from scratch but has to use your local history because you happened to be on campus first and want to preserve that history? It doesn't work that way. Your alumnae, while a resource in the community would not know anything about the policies and procedures of the NPC. They would still need NPC alumnae to support the chapter. Are you starting to see the issues here?
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:22 PM
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Because there are only 4 of them. No NPC sorority is going to use 4 women as the main basis for a new chapter. What you're proposing is like saying that if you had a pledge class of ten women and 3 of them were biological triplets, that part of the pledge class's education would be learning about the triplets' family history, their aunts and uncles, going to family dinners, etc.

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This. For it to truly be an absorption, you'd have to have an actual functioning chapter for an NPC to come in and take over. Right now, you basically are proposing that random NPC comes in and puts in the work to start a colony from scratch but has to use your local history because you happened to be on campus first and want to preserve that history? It doesn't work that way. Your alumnae, while a resource in the community would not know anything about the policies and procedures of the NPC. They would still need NPC alumnae to support the chapter. Are you starting to see the issues here?


This is the crux of the issue right here. NYCAlumna, I'm trying to say this as gingerly as I can; but, with just 4 members and having been inactive for several semesters, your dormant sorority isn't in a position to request an absorption by an NPC GLO. If an NPC decides to start a new colony with, say, 60 women, they are not going to absorb 4 women from a local and then include the local's history and alumnae into the chapter. I'm sorry, I wish I had better news for you. If you're saying that other local sororities on your campus were absorbed and had their traditions or history included, then I imagine that those were proper absorptions of active, functioning chapters with 20+ members, yes?


Also, the fact that your alumnae already know the campus is, unfortunately, not a selling point. Dozens of NPC colonies are established every year from scratch without the help of alumnae members of a local sorority. Saying that your alumnae will not support an NPC colonization if they don't accept alumnae members for alumnae initiation is a moot point. The NPC colonization can happen with or without you, which you already acknowledged. However, you may be hurting your 4 girls who may only have the NPC as their last chance for a sorority experience or face permanent closure of an already dormant sorority.


Dare I say that having 4 members of a defunct local sorority and their vocal alumnae in the mix may actually work as a negative for any incoming NPC. This may be a disadvantage to you.


If your 4 remaining girls wish to join an NPC colonization, I urge you to support them. Memories of your local sorority will always remain in your hearts and no one can take that from you. Good luck.
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Last edited by navane; 10-06-2013 at 09:29 PM.
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  #30  
Old 10-07-2013, 02:07 AM
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NYCAlumna, you mentioned that there are a few other struggling local sororities on your campus. Are they also considering / pursuing affiliation with an NPC sorority? If so, how do your members feel about combining efforts? Are any of those other remaining locals compatible with your group's culture and values? It's still no guarantee that an interested NPC will absorb the alumnae of both groups as AIs, but it might be a way to strengthen your appeal as an incubator group.

Greekchatters who have experience with NPC colonizations, would a combined group like this be a plus or a red flag?
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